F1: Monza
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Thread: F1: Monza

  1. #1

    Lightbulb F1: Monza

    I'll let you guys decide.....

    On a side note, when was the last time 3 drivers from 3 different teams were vying for a driver's championship where each driver had a realistic chance?

  2. #2
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Clearly the Brits still have the biggest influence in F1. Lewis is declared guilty for pushing Max from the track in Silverstone. Gets no real penalty and is allowed to gain 25 points. At Monza Max declared guilty for causing a collision and gets a grid penalty. A good chance for Red Bull to change the engine, which is of course is needed because there were two wrecked by crashes caused by Mercedes.

    I'm sure any other driver from any other team than Lewis would have been accused of too aggressive defending.

    So no 3 teams with a reasonable chance, just one from the start. They could have given the title to Mercedes and Lewis before the first race. It would have saved a lot of effort and and a lot of money.

    Nice winner and a great drive by the McLarens.

    Cheers,
    Huub

  3. #3
    Totally agree with you Huub!

    The FIA is a shamelessly biassed organisation. If I was Red Bull I would retire both my teams immediately from F1. As soon as someone is getting to competetive for "their"designated winner you will suffer....
    You can drive someone off at 200mph and get a 10 second penalty or you get a racing incident and immediately apply a grid penalty.... that says enough I guess.

    But what else would we expect from a bunch of retired dinosaurs paid by Mercedes-Benz?

    They are as corrupt as all those other "institutions" like the EUFA, FIFA and so on....

  4. #4

    Icon2

    So I think in the bigger picture of things,....I think what's happening now in F1 is that like NASCAR, the cars are so "safe" that drivers are doing things they wouldn't have thought of 10-20 years ago...

    Huub, for what it's worth, I don't think Max should have been penalized either - should have been chalked up as a 'racing incident'....

  5. #5
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    I totally agree Ed, in my opinion it was a racing incident as well. Max took too much risk and Lewis didn't leave him any room and pushed Max against the high curbstones, due to which the tires touched, which made the Red Bull fly. Both wrong and both got their penalty by an early retirement. But I can remember some events where drivers did similar things in the past. So in my opinion it hasn't much to do with the improved safety of the cars.

    And when he gets away with it every time like so far, I'm convinced Lewis will keep pushing Max from the track on every occasion he gets.

    Later this week we certainly will hear the explanation the stewards will have invented by than.

    Its like Mattia Binotti said last week: "when there are question about the engine of Ferrari, or when Mercedes says, front wings bend too much its front page news for weeks. When Red Bull asks questions about the engine of Mercedes it remains quiet". Or as he more diplomatically said: " there is a different attitude towards Mercedes.........."

    Cheers,
    Huub

    BTW. A less controversial race in the MotoGP. A surprising winner again and different manufactures at the first 4 places. The leader in the championship only finished 8th. So the championships is again a bit more interesting as well.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Panther_99FS View Post
    On a side note, when was the last time 3 drivers from 3 different teams were vying for a driver's championship where each driver had a realistic chance?
    2010, maybe 2012 as well.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by huub vink View Post
    Clearly the Brits still have the biggest influence in F1. Lewis is declared guilty for pushing Max from the track in Silverstone. Gets no real penalty and is allowed to gain 25 points. At Monza Max declared guilty for causing a collision and gets a grid penalty.
    The way they give penalties has been the same for ages :

    - if the guilty driver is still running, he is given time penalty immediately (Hamilton at Silverstone, Vettel at Bahrain).

    - if the guilty driver retires, he is given grid penalty for the next event (Verstappen at Monza, Bottas and Stroll at Budapest).

  8. #8
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Exactly! The rules are clearly not from this age anymore!

    And from the stewards report: "While car 44 (Lewis) could have steered further from the kerb to avoid the incident" (Or as Lewis would say when it happened to him: "he pushed me from the track!")

    You can't say two drivers did wrong and only penalise one.......

  9. #9
    'It was a racing incident' hardly excuses it.
    Hamilton was already bleating 'He pushed me off' on the earlier lap (as he ALWAYS does!) and while they both were rather bone headed at the chicane Hamilton (multiple 'World Champion' etc etc) should have had enough sense to leave enough room for Verstappen.
    After all, Hamilton regards himself as the 'GOAT'......
    Of course the Effwun 'Head Shed' are going to rule in favor of MB, they simply can't afford for them to throw all their toys out of the pram and depart the series.
    They should look at how DORNA operate.
    Bloody muppets!
    A word about the curbs: they have been there for some time, all the drivers know that, common sense (which seems uncommon) should prevail and the curbs treated with respect and caution.
    "Illegitimum non carborundum".

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  10. #10
    Sorry, but Max knew the kerbs were there,
    it's not as if they were magically put in place between
    Qualifying and the Race. He was trying to bully his way , it might have worked if his name was Schumacher and in a Ferrari, frankly he's supposedly a professional driver.

    Ttfn

    Pete

  11. #11
    Verstappen-fan here (so obviously biased), but I think Max was a bit to eager/frustrated to make up for the bad start and pitstop. So part of me understands why he got the penalty. What is hard to digest however is the penalty he got when compared to the penalty Hamilton got at Silverstone. By not being consistent, the stewards are interfering in the championship race. I usually don't believe in conspiracies, but they probably wanted to compensate for the fact that Max did better in the sprint race. Both the FIA and the F1-owners undoubtedly want the championship battle between Max and Lewis to go on as long as possible, so I wouldn't be surprised if they put pressure on the stewards to give Max a penalty.
    TFZ-034
    "I fought the law and the law won ..."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawman View Post
    What is hard to digest however is the penalty he got when compared to the penalty Hamilton got at Silverstone.
    They actually got the same level penalty.

    A 5-second time penalty is the same level as a 3-place grid penalty in the marshalls' book.

    As I explained slightly above, the way they give penalty is quite clear and has been the same for years:
    - if the guilty driver is still running, he is given time penalty immediately.
    - if the guilty driver retires, he is given grid penalty for the next event.

    They actually treated Hamilton and Verstappen the same.

    And before you ask, I am neither a fan of Hamilton nor Verstappen.

  13. #13
    This is what race legend Sir Jackie Stewart had to say about it:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Hammilton.html

    Cheers,

    Priller
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  14. #14
    Lewis did get a new hair cut though.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Priller View Post
    This is what race legend Sir Jackie Stewart had to say about it:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Hammilton.html

    Cheers,

    Priller
    I know I'm biased...
    But I would have preferred Lauda's take......

  16. #16
    Agree with that choice Ed.
    Wee Jock MacArmco is hardly someone too ask about 'safety' IMNSHO.
    "Illegitimum non carborundum".

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  17. #17
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    It is what it is. The Stewards have taken their decision and nobody will change that. The opinion of Jackie Steward is just one of many and it comes from the Daily Mail, you can wonder what he really said.. The fact Lewis could have been killed isn't really important, as stewards do not look at the severity and consequences. And I don't think that was taken in consideration when Lewis knocked Max out of the race at Silverstone.

    I think the real reason why some of us think MB is in privileged position is, most likely was already hidden in one of Wombat's previous posts. MB is an engine supplier of competitive engines. Honda will leave next season, Ferrari already threatened to leave several times (I already started to ignore these messages) and the Renault seems to start to take some distance form F1 as well.

    Therefore I think engine suppliers will always be privileged. As a motorised sport isn't much without engines........

    Meanwhile Red Bull already presented their 2025 car.....

    Cheers,
    Huub


  18. #18

    Icon2

    I think what's sad is that just when things got rolling with Honda,.....they pull out....

    Might be time for Gasly to look for other options......(Merc power team)

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