Opinion: XBox or Bust

[Mach3DS]

I came across this article in my news feed this morning.

And to me this illustrates why I believe MSFS will eventually need to evolve to include some other features or risk dying on the vine.

I figured this would happen at some point, but the fact that it's happened so soon after release on Xbox isn't a good sign for console popularity. IMO. If this one dude is already feeling this way...(he's bored)...then the typical gamer is also likely feeling the same. Which means there's no reason for them to buy any additional DLC.

Again this is my opinion. I've been around the simulation block a long time like many of you, but no one has a crystal ball. I'm Interested in hearing what your thoughts are!

https://metro.co.uk/2021/08/08/micro...-15055086/amp/

[Mach3DS]

I should probably add... While that doesn't really affect PC users per se, I think that the longevity of the devs in supporting it long term, will be based somewhat on how well it does on console?

[tiger1962]

I got the same article in one of my news feeds. It's just one gamer's view. There are tens of thousands who haven't had time to write in yet, presumably because they're too busy enjoying the sim for what it is, instead of whatever they expected it to be.

[Priller]

IMHO it's a gamer who desperately wants a shooting game and who is unfamiliar with the term simulation.

Does anyone have any info on the installations of MSFS on Xbox? Even a guesstimate?

Priller

[Javis]

The poster couldn't have said it better himself : " This really is just a simulation. It’s not meant to be a game ".

I stopped reading after that.

45 Million Games outhere, one more bloody gory than the other. Can we perhaps have *One* Simulation please, pretty please ! Thank you !

I like Planet Zoo, it's kind of a simulation too. Very nicely done by Frontier too. Just the other day a post in the Planet Zoo discussion forum on Steam with the Title : "Is there a mod that allows you to butcher their animals ?

Just an idiot totally missing the point. Not saying that the poster of the article at hand is an idiot. I did stop reading but i'll probabely read the article anyway. He probabely has only average interest in aircraft and flying and might even be right in thinking that the average Xbox user will find MSFS boring. I still think MSFS simply will not go the way MS Flight went no matter what happens.

[ryanbatc]

The sim on Xbox got a lot of really good reviews recently.... probably better than PC hehe.

[ak416]

I've seen a few people post this "opinion piece" on various sites and it's a pretty bad and misinformed take.

For starters, the Metro is a rag and you should find somewhere else to get your news. You wouldn't go to the comments section on BBC Gaming to ask a question about flight simulator, you would go to sim-outhouse or avsim or whatever. Not some anonymous guy on a website run by a shoddy newspaper.

Ignoring that, whoever wrote the actual text doesn't seem to realize that it's no longer 1987, SEGA isn't making After Burner or OutRun games anymore because nobody wants them. The SEGA that made After Burner hasn't existed for well over 20 years. The idea of Yu Suzuki making an After Burner game on the Flight Simulator engine in 2021 is honestly hilarious, like a headline you would see on The Onion.

I believe this is in large part because they’re so far behind on technology. Sonic games are actually really difficult to make (think about it, you’re running really fast and have to be a platformer at the same time) so it makes them look more incompetent than they actually are.

This bit almost reads like satire to me. It's just so wrong and misinformed it tells me all I need to know about the writer to immediately discredit their opinion. And it only goes downhill from there.

I hope you see where I’m going with this but if Microsoft provide the technology, I’d love to see Sega provide the gameplay.

That's not how videogames work. You don't just send your game off to another studio and they turn it into a completely different game. The amount of time and effort both studios would have to endure just to get the second studio up and running with tools and a game engine they are completely unfamiliar with makes the idea kind of absurd. You do what Asobo is already doing, reaching out to established third party flight simulator developers who already work with your tools and hire them to make something for you. All those POI's in the World Updates Asobo pushes out are created by GAYA Simulations. They also do most of the custom airports. Orbx also was contracted to work on game, check out the game credits. You don't outsource entire games or DLC's, you outsource assets and assemble it in house.

As to the question of whether console players will get bored, of course they will. So will a lot of the people who try the game on PC. The idea that console gamers are somehow different from PC gamers is something I thought we had moved past but apparently not. Flight simulators have always been a niche genre and they always will be regardless of the platform they are released on.

The vast majority of people buy consoles for a 3 reasons. Affordability, accessibility and exclusivity. The first one is self explanatory and so is the third, there are some games that only come out on one console or the other. If you want to play Nintendo games, you have to buy a Nintendo console (lets pretend for the sake of this argument that emulators don't exist).

Accessibility is the important one, most people want the convenience of being able to plug their box into the tv and have everything just work. They dont want to build a PC, they don't to fuss with graphics settings or tweaking config files, they want to turn the game on and sit on their couch and everything just works. We've had home consoles since the 1970s, people have been growing up with these things for decades now, the notion that they are exclusively used by hyper 13 year olds playing Call of Duty doesn't really hold up. Kids have gaming PC's and tablets too, they were here for FSX, or did no one here play FSX online? YouTubers like Airforceproud95 introduced a whole generation of kids to flight simulation, for better or for worse.

Microsoft is one of the largest corporations in the industry. They have 100 million active monthly users. More than 30 million monthly GamePass users. They have mountains of data on spending habits and user interest, the decision to bring Flight Simulator to consoles was likely an informed one. I have no idea whether the game is profitible for them on PC let alone how it will do on consoles, for all we know this thing has been bleeding money from the start and Microsoft pulls the plug on it like they did with FSX and Flight.

[pilto von pilto]

If I am allowed an opinion then it is this.

The article written from the point of view of the average xbox user is in fact correct.

That gamer finds xbox MSFS boring. He sees a way to make it less boring by getting sega to do the top gun DLC... which actually isnt a bad idea ( though the looking from behind is too arcadey for mine ). We/Pc simmers have latched onto it and decided he is wrong. He isnt. He has a different opinion to our opinion.

For me I am more worried about the longevity Vs target of MSFS. If the story I read at the announcement of MSFS for PC was to be believed this is also a tech demo for azure web services and AI. From MS's ( and asobos I suppose ) the job is done -sort of I cant get into it here as it might be considered uncivil but it still needs work. My concern is that it will go the way of MS flight and FSW.

We all remember that product manager interview on gamasutra about the future of MS flight for it to only fold 2 months later. and in more recent past the FSW situation.

Anyway back on track the article is correct in my opinion. But then my opinion is probably incorrect according to your opinion. And there is the nubbin of the story.

[Tom Clayton]

Does anyone have any info on the installations of MSFS on Xbox? Even a guesstimate?

From what I understand, it's essentially the same sim. The real difference is that the only mods available are from the Marketplace. Sadly, this means that console-only pilots are going to miss out on some amazing freeware.

[Mach3DS]

If I am allowed an opinion then it is this.

The article written from the point of view of the average xbox user is in fact correct.

That gamer finds xbox MSFS boring. He sees a way to make it less boring by getting sega to do the top gun DLC... which actually isnt a bad idea ( though the looking from behind is too arcadey for mine ). We/Pc simmers have latched onto it and decided he is wrong. He isnt. He has a different opinion to our opinion.

For me I am more worried about the longevity Vs target of MSFS. If the story I read at the announcement of MSFS for PC was to be believed this is also a tech demo for azure web services and AI. From MS's ( and asobos I suppose ) the job is done -sort of I cant get into it here as it might be considered uncivil but it still needs work. My concern is that it will go the way of MS flight and FSW.

We all remember that product manager interview on gamasutra about the future of MS flight for it to only fold 2 months later. and in more recent past the FSW situation.

Anyway back on track the article is correct in my opinion. But then my opinion is probably incorrect according to your opinion. And there is the nubbin of the story.

This is precisely as I see it. I don't read into this as someone who is already passionate about Flight SIMS. That's all of us already here. That crowd is in, locked and loaded. It's the new blood. Trying to.wrangle more people part.

To answer AK416's question I don't read that as my news. It was just a suggested article from google. But if this random guys opinion represents a typical cross section of the average console gamer, then I see this as a big hit against MSFS longevity if it remains in its current state unchanged on Xbox.

Considering that most sim users are likely PC based anyway, there may be a few oddballs that buy it on xbox as well. But can't imagine that to be normal.

Keep the opinions coming. Super interesting to read everyone's take.

[heywooood]

I don't think ASOBO is mining console users for gamers - they're mining for simmers.
I don't think they want to lose their established PC flight simmer community to do it.
There might be a tradeoff initially in performance for us in order for them to get the consoles to provide a stable platform, but I don't think that's a permanent solution.
I'm sure it's easy to be pessimistic given MS's track record from FSX - MS Flight but I believe this is all just the beginning. MSFS is an ambitious project that appears
to me anyway to still be a fledgling...
Gamers will not want to drone along for hours in an airplane with no 'action' as they're used to in Duke Nukem, or Battlefield 900, or whatever. But there could be console players in the 'open world' category etc.. that would find MSFS entertaining.
Even if you imagine only 15-20% of all xbox users would try it - and only 7-10% would keep using it. That's a lot of new blood. and new money.
The real challenge for ASOBO will be to keep all of us from mutiny while they give this effort a shot.

[bazzar]

From what I understand, it's essentially the same sim. The real difference is that the only mods available are from the Marketplace. Sadly, this means that console-only pilots are going to miss out on some amazing freeware.

and a fair amount of payware.

[Priller]

From what I understand, it's essentially the same sim. The real difference is that the only mods available are from the Marketplace. Sadly, this means that console-only pilots are going to miss out on some amazing freeware.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The question should have been does someone have an idea of the number of installations on XBox compared to installations on PC?

I'm guessing that the PC user base of MSFS is a lot larger than XBox.

Priller

[DC1973]

For the average console gamer, the piece is correct. For fans of aviation at any level, anywhere, it's utter tripe.

The X-Box version of MSFS sold one million units in its first week alone. It's impossible to predict how many of those users will become long-term fans, but it's reasonable to assume that maybe 10% might do so. At even more conservative guesses that's still millions of new and avid users over the next year or so coming into flight simulation via console. Purchasing their favourite aircraft might be a bigger stretch, but with MSFS available with Gamepass, that removes much of the big initial purchase for younger users.

MSFS is about more than just flight simulation, as hinted above - it's a world simulator too, with potential applications far beyond entertainment. As the flagship software for that potential future, it's unlikely to be "dropped" anytime soon, and as MS now has the headstart with an up-to-date simulator, they're unlikely to abandon it for that reason also.

Sales figures will always come into it, but with the marketplace generating a considerable income for MS ( which has not happened before with a sim in that way ) MSFS has a much brighter future than any of its predecessors.

[scotth6]

MSFS is about more than just flight simulation, as hinted above - it's a world simulator too, with potential applications far beyond entertainment.

Too right. My sister waited for it to come to Xbox. This is the text message she sent me a few days after it launched. "Played flight sim on the xbox last night. Love it for the sightseeing."

As an avid flight simulation and aviation enthusiast for many years, it is the world simulation aspect that has kept me the most interested over the years. I remember, as many probably do, using Google Earth years ago to just browse the earth for interesting and new places to look at, and MSFS has taken that to the most incredible level. IMHO, anyone who sees it as "just" a flight simulator is missing many points.

[Francois]

After programming, playing and publishing flight simulators since 1976, and now being retired, I stopped reading these sort of articles. We have FSX, P3D, X-Plane 11....... so even if MSFS doesn't make it, I am good. So far I have been flying MSFS solely for the love of flying VFR and showing neighbors and friends what the world looks like from above. For the more immersive ' flying' I still go back to one of the old ones. But I think it is the former that may attract Xbox users, if at all....

[tiger1962]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The question should have been does someone have an idea of the number of installations on XBox compared to installations on PC?

I'm guessing that the PC user base of MSFS is a lot larger than XBox.

Priller

You may be right, but MSFS Standard edition is available for free to everyone with an Xbox Game Pass (sales are going through the roof apparently) and I would imagine that the majority of Game Pass subscribers are on Xbox.
I have no idea how they would record the stats for MSFS usage on PC v Xbox, but I can tell you that my MSFS data server's connection starts dropping out at around 8pm UK time and continues until I switch off at around 9.30-10pm.

[Priller]

I'm deleting the planes and liveries that I don't need right now (the joys of teleworking!) Seems a lengthy process though!

Priller

[TheGrunt]

You may be right, but MSFS Standard edition is available for free to everyone with an Xbox Game Pass (sales are going through the roof apparently) and I would imagine that the majority of Game Pass subscribers are on Xbox.
I have no idea how they would record the stats for MSFS usage on PC v Xbox, but I can tell you that my MSFS data server's connection starts dropping out at around 8pm UK time and continues until I switch off at around 9.30-10pm.

Tracking usage by platform is very much possible and really depends on what information MSFS sends to the servers (And you can bet it sends information ). MS and other large technology corporations are data hoarders, gathering user information which they use for their marketing and business. From MS standpoint, gathering usage data by platform may be interesting as they can for example evaluate business risks for future projects and revenue streams based on that and other data.

Tracking how many times the game has been installed for both platforms should be even more simple, as distributions are different. Download and activation (DRM) is surely handled by user and platform basis (meaning user has bought the game in Xbox/MS store or has game pass for PC, Xbox or ultimate and has downloaded the game and activated it). Naturally MS also has the sales numbers it has on Steam when it comes to PC release.

[Javis]

For the average console gamer, the piece is correct. For fans of aviation at any level, anywhere, it's utter tripe.

You are talking about MSFS on Xbox, right ?...

What exactly makes it 'utter tripe' in your opinion, Dean ? Is it *that* much different compared to MSFS on PC ?...

Thanks!

[tiger1962]

You are talking about MSFS on Xbox, right ?...

He's talking about the news article itself - "the piece".

[Tom Clayton]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The question should have been does someone have an idea of the number of installations on XBox compared to installations on PC?

I'd bet my paycheck that MS has my game rig's MAC address on record, along with the last time I flew, how long my average flight is, and other information.

They know. What they'll divulge is another question entirely.

[Javis]

He's talking about the news article itself - "the piece".

Harriejakkes.... Ok, i'll put it on again (not the first time you know..)



Thanks Tiger, don't tell anybody..

[Francois]

Harriejakkes.... Ok, i'll put it on again (not the first time you know..)



Thanks Tiger, don't tell anybody..

ROFLMAO ! I saw that !!

[heywooood]

Harriejakkes.... Ok, i'll put it on again (not the first time you know..)



Thanks Tiger, don't tell anybody..

I wear that one often enough...lol - probably have it on now