What a mess!

[BendyFlyer]

I guess this does not really belong here but I was not sure where else it would go, maybe too many rums on a hot Australian night! Anyway having spent a fortnight backwards and forwards trying to recreate some of my FSX collection (aeroplanes and scenery) in P3DV5 I surrendered and accepted what I have for the time being, not bad mind you but still. It led me to consider that between LM and MS we have an unholy mess in the sim world now. Two completely new simulation programs, albiet properly configured and focused on where software and hardware is and should be, but, here is how I see it, LM have the functionality and graphics sorted, their latest version is stable and reliable, compared to FSX and the inbetween stuff it is very very impressive, but it is still a stand alone sim reliant on constructed scenery and models both.

Then I look across the fence and see MSFS2020, so much potential amazing scenery, graphically outstanding but here we have a half baked program shoved out to market with incomplete SDK, uncertain model dynamics but above all a complete reliance on the user having a super fast unlimited bandwith internet connection - well stuff me! That probably only applies in about 15 percent of the planet.

Then jammmed in the middle is everyone else, user and developer, trying to work out, first can they rebuild what they have done for the new sim, is it worth doing and for what sim do you go LM or MS? Buying both, installing both and then oops sorry that did not work well not in that sim, not yet, not ever maybe actually! And no this is not a case of a new update and refresh, this is a complete cluster and we the consumer, customer or user are left standing in the middle. As comedian George Carlin once said, they are just 'servicing the account' and boy are we being serviced!

And last but not least is the hardware issue, yep, unless you have a cutting edge PC with mega RAM, SSD's and super GPUs or video cards your effectively out of the game as well. I guess the point of this thread, well I am seriously p*^%$#@d with both of them, yes actually and then some, thats all, are we all not at the moment?

[Manschy]

I agree in most points, BendyFlyer.

I can't understand why MSFS is not building on their own flightsim base, the FSX, and simply improve it. Each new car model for years has wheels, a gearbox, seats, heater, windows, a stearing wheel etc - most parts stand the test for decades and each generation starts with the basic car and improves only parts. Okay, a 2020 Ford or VW or whatever is another car than one out of the 50s, but it's the same base. It still can't fly, still runs with petrol or even if it runs electrically....it still has 4 wheels, a gearbox, seats, heater.....
Regarding this: Why does MS not modify the sim constantly? Thankfully, there are some great guys to let us be optimistically to at least let us use legacy aircraft in MSFS (Legacy Importer...).
As long as MSFS is not quite ready, I will enjoy my well running P3Dv4.5 with almost everything working what I need to be happy.
Only a - admittedly - fantastic worlds visuality is not enough to my opinion...

[BendyFlyer]

Great analogy Manschy, exactly!

[Navy Chief]

I played around with MSFS for a few weeks, but I "shelved" it for now, and back with P3DV5.1 (fresh install), and very pleased with it!

I look at the listings of new free scenery and other files on Flightsim.to occasionally, but P3DV5.1 is so awesome! NC

[thunderstreak]

I think you’ll find the latest version of P3D (5.1 +) much easier on hardware.
My rig has some pretty dated components.
I can finally fly through the big cities that were slideshows before.
Give it a shot, you may be pleasantly surprised.

[Scorch00]

You're not the only one that feels that way. I personally passed even attempting to mess with MSFS2020 and stayed on P3DV4.5. As far as I was concerned, I knew this was going to be how it was. I'm waiting for the SDK to be released before I bother investing money into possibly updating my system to handle it better in the future. Most new platforms are essentially launched this way it seems, i.e. mostly completed base products while the peripherals get completed/tweaked in post launch updates/patches. Helps them recover R&D costs and get profits faster as well launching this way. Although, like most it makes the initial launch massive, but interest ends up falling relatively quickly as a result. Because it's not completely done, people get bored with it. I think a lot, if not most people ended up reverting back to their old sims only a few months after FS2020 launched. I look in parallel with DCS. Granted on a smaller scale. In DCS, a lot of modules come out in Open Beta where the community then works with the development team to fix and complete the full fidelity aircraft and all it's subsystems. It's much cheaper in terms of development costs, plus the more eyes you have, the more things can be looked at or caught. Microsoft really has done the same thing by using the community to likely help shape the remainder of the sim (at least that's my theory). In DCS people whine constantly, it's really a huge annoyance of being a part of that community. They probably whine more than any other sim community I've been apart of. Which is saying a lot considering I've been doing flight sims for well over 20 years. But when the modules are complete in DCS, they have no rivals. Yet at least. I feel MSFS has a lot of growing yet to do. But it's likely growth the community will likely shape. I'm just being patient with it. It does have some big shoes to fill after all. When it's closer to being complete, I'm sure it will be even more amazing.

[BendyFlyer]

I can say that V5.1.12 has met my expectations for a flight simulator not just a game. I did upgrade well no I bought a completely new PC with P3DV5 and MSFS2020 in mind for specification, I also made sure it was fitted with the hardware recommended or used themselves namely Intel and NVIDIA. Interestingly some of the graphics features in V5 cannot be produced if it is not an NVIDIA card so that also raises the issue to my mind of the software people driving us down a path vis a vis hardware. Was it worth it? you bet not a single tweak, fix or change needed to anything, it works flawlessly right of the install. Sobering up - it was an expensive change as the machine you now need is mid to high level in the gaming machine pantheon, I can live with a more modest 6 core 12 thread CPU it is never going to use any more because so much work is done by the graphics card and that I did not stint on.

I would also say the response from developers in the sim world has been mixed. ORBX have been right on it for P3D from the start and they are repackaging a number of sceneries into one (like Iceland into the EU LC) and at the moment some weeks out there is not a single scenery package that I use (and it is a lot - I am a sucker for LC) from ORBX that has not been updated. 5 Star effort actually. Similarly JF and AH have really put a lot of effort into upgrades for V5 and they coming out reasonably quickly and at no charge, big tick and plus from me yes they will get more sales from this level of customer service. A2A mixed, they are doing it but they are also charging a hefty new buy price for you to get the V5 stuff. Milviz so far have done nothing, Capt Sim did the modern jets but not the oldies. Carenado, not sure, they seem to have got to V4.5 but not 5.1 and are dragging their heels there, yet they have an aircraft packaged into the Sim release, so go figure!. Flight Replicas well I did not have much problem with doing a port over for any of their stuff - so far. Aerosoft well mixed feelings there, their premium or professional class of product they have updated but not the baseline stuff but hey two of their old FSX birds dropped into P3DV5 without issues and no I was not that interested in paying for a newbie of the old one at all. Anyway the other standout for me has how well some of the old stuff from FSX done by Manfred Jahn, Milton Schupe, thomas Ruth and even Jens Kristensen has gone over with no problems at all and for that what can one say but great!

[Manschy]

I am happy with my MILVIZ F-4 jets, the WILCO Harrier, the Just Flight Tornado primarily. Then following the SSW F-104 Starfighter, the GINA and don't forget the huge amount of freeware aircraft like the fantastic DC-3/C-47, the great Hawker Hunter, the Nimrod...and now, Gentlemen, get this: Helicopters!!! The Aerosoft UH-1D, UKMIL Chinook, or just the default Bell 206 all together with tons of freeware liveries.
I forgot: Military AI, done by the fantastic MAIW team. All military sceneries done and found there where MSFS has simply green green grass of dope - what a shame!

So, if all above listed missing things will find their way into MSFS, I maybe will change the sim (just let me think: That's around 2023 or later I fear...). And then I will change my rig to a i12990K with 64 GB RAM and a nVidia 5090 Gracard with 32 GB. What a wonderful Christmas it will be....

[jeansy]

i think no matter what you choose you will have shortfalls and you will never be 100% content

the flight sim world has been very stagnate for many years thanks to MS sacking ACES, we all have become very familiar with what products we have used for how long, now the new and emerging products dont fill the void the same way like our previous versions did.


Interesting times ahead & disappointing times ahead with 2 new platforms. There is no wrong or right, we just have to find something that entertains us and run with it. Me? Ive been mucking around with other things other than flight sims the past several months and could not be more happier, maybe when the platforms matures I might become more engaged again and start up doing paints or flying again other than 5 min hops then turning things off.

[BendyFlyer]

Jeansy - too true. I managed one longer flight the other day and then stopped. I thought a new sim would fire up my interest in Aviation again, After the drought and then the bushfires then Covid (that was the end of my flying career) life has been on hold, I am filling in time until Xmas then I have a house to rebuild and a farm and garden to rejuvenate. Either way not into corporate shenanigans at the moment either!

Yep and it would be a simple thing and courtesy for all those developers to give you a post or email about updates instead of me having to chase them after all they have all our details via purchase orders. One in particular did the usual thing of no longer recognising account or password (new PC + different browser will do it), 3 days of exchanges trying to get the access to work, then finally yes, Oh no change, binned them for good, never again for anything!