2 airbase issues
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Thread: 2 airbase issues

  1. #1
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    2 airbase issues

    Have shown up for some unknown reason.

    1. Aircraft will not start on the runway but above it.

    2. One of my installs suddenly lost all runway details on airbase. AFAIK all the files are the same as in anothewr install which does not have the proble. What should I be looking for?

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  2. #2
    SOH-CM-2024 Pat Pattle's Avatar
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    Hi James,
    What airfields, exactly? Do they have a runway entry in the facility file?
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  3. #3
    Might also, take a look at the Global Layer entry, too...to be sure the 'altitude' entry is there.

  4. #4
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    As I mentioned, they are the same as in another install which is OK and have the same gsl and facility entries as well as qclocations. I suspect mos or dds issues somewhere.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  5. #5
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    1. So as I suspected, it was missing mos files; but how they went AWOL I have no idea!

    2. The other issue I referred to " Aircraft will not start on the runway but above it" is now the same in 2 installs. I have had that with the BoB install runway but I forget how it was solved.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  6. #6
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    Hi James, for an aircraft to start on the runway you need a valid runway object.xdp (eg. airbase1600.xdp on the objects folder) called by the airbase facility file that you are using. If you only have a "notakeoff" runway or for some reason the runway object is faulty (eg. runway1600.xdp on the objects folder), that could explain why the aircraft is appearing over the base. Another reason would be if you added that parameter in my thread about campaign parameters, to your campaign.xml file - the parameter which talks about starting in the air?

  7. #7
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    Ah! I thought that might be the answer, but it seems not.

    NJG_airbase-single_5 has <Unit Type="airbase1570" Position="12.50 82.05" Angle="52" />
    Objects folder has airbase1570.xdp

    <?xml version="1.0"?>
    <UnitData>
    <General Allegience="" LongName="Test Standalone Airbase" ShortName="Airbase" ModelName="" BlastDamageScale="1.0" ImpactDamageScale="1.0" FireDamageScale="1.0" Priority="2" Type="static" EnteredService="01/01/1944" BlastDamageMod="0" ImpactDamageMod="0" FireDamageMod="0" AllowSpawn="n" Category="airbase" Country="neutral">
    </General>
    <Description String=""/>
    <Loadouts/>
    <GunStations/>
    <DamageBoxes/>
    <Systems/>
    <Airbase>
    <Runway Start="0 0 -785" Stop="0 0 785" Width="50" Turn="10000" SurfaceType="concrete"/>
    <Routes>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 780"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -780"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 750"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -750"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 720"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -720"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 690"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -680"/>
    </Route>
    </Routes>
    </Airbase>
    </UnitData>


    Now I did also try airbase1570_dirt in the facility file with the same result. In fact I want a tarmac runway type but AFAIK there are only grass, dirt, or concrete Surface types. The MOS file does show a tarmac runway in NJG_airbase-single_5.mos which is basically a modified airbase-single_2 which Clive did for me.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  8. #8
    Hi James,


    1. Check the 'EnteredService=' date against your airfield or chosen era if you are in ETO v1.5.
    2. AFAIK, the start and stop positions for aircraft are entered as Point Positions XYZ string pairs. The first string is the start location on the runway, the second string is the stop position. Point Positions are calculated from the center of the runway length, with the start position getting a negative Z-value and the stop position entered as a positive Z-value. In your example the minus signs seem to have been switched between start and stop strings.
    3. X-values can be used to add a left/right offset from the runway's centerline with left being given a negative value and right a positive one. If you have placed the runway definition exactly over the visual runway (by its coordinates in the airfield facility file), there should be no reason to offset your aircraft in the runway definition file, other than for the creation of a staggered line-up. In this example the visual runway apparently lies 100m to the right of the runway coordinates in the facility file (the runway reference is at X,Y in the airfield facility file but in game the aircraft are 100m left of the visual runway. This has apparently been solved by adding a 100m offset to get them on the runway, instead of relocating the runway reference. At least, that is how I look at this.
    4. Note that the 'SurfaceType=' entry has no relation to the visual aspect of the airfield. I believe it controls the sound effect of the tires on the chosen surface and perhaps even the handling of the aircraft on the ground. So if you want your aircraft to sound like it is rolling on tarmac, change the 'SurfaceType=' entry to ' Tarmac'. You can call it any of the types mentioned in the SDK. It will not change the appearance of your airfield, just the tire sounds (and perhaps the handling, as mentioned before).


    So try this one:

    <?xml version="1.0"?>
    <UnitData>
    <General Allegience="" LongName="Test Standalone Airbase" ShortName="Airbase" ModelName="" BlastDamageScale="1.0" ImpactDamageScale="1.0" FireDamageScale="1.0" Priority="2" Type="static" EnteredService="01/01/1939" BlastDamageMod="0" ImpactDamageMod="0" FireDamageMod="0" AllowSpawn="n" Category="airbase" Country="neutral">
    </General>
    <Description String=""/>
    <Loadouts/>
    <GunStations/>
    <DamageBoxes/>
    <Systems/>
    <Airbase>
    <Runway Start="0 0 -785" Stop="0 0 785" Width="50" Turn="10000" SurfaceType="concrete"/>
    <Routes>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -780"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 780"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -750"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 750"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -720"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 720"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -690"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 690"/>
    </Route>
    </Routes>
    </Airbase>
    </UnitData>

    ACC Member, ETO and PTO contributor & librarian

  9. #9
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    At the moment that does not seem to be the full answer but 'EnteredService=' date was 1944 i/o '39 fir an era2 period.

    However; having investigated several difference types of ETO installs I have with different versions of 'airbase_single_2' such as an NJ and TOW versions with lighting. I am having issues in QC with all the 'airbase_single_2' airbases I have tried in Germany and France. No time right now but I need to investigate this 'airbase_single_2' further!

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  10. #10
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    Hi James, upload a link to the relevant airbase_single_2.xml facility file if you like, for us to take a gander at.

  11. #11
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    I have yet to check out non ETO based varieties! If I can't work it out I will upload my varieties.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  12. #12
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    OK there is something about the airbase_single_2 and it's variations which consist mainly of

    -adding lights
    -changing the mos/dds files as far as the runway composition is concerned.

    At the moment QC location 'runway' always puts me in the air for all variations of 'TED' 'NJG' and 'TOW' variations of airbase-single_2 which are TED airbase_single_2, TED NJG_airbase_single_2, TED NJG_airbase-single_5, TOW_airbase-single_2, TOW_airbase-single_5, TOW_airbase-single_8

    BUT I start on the runway in the CFS3_DW stock!

    airbase_single_2 variatioms.zip


    EDIT!! Something very interesting I found in other ETO and ETO based install objects files for airbase1570_dirt and others is the
    Width="1600" and variations, while in my other ETO based instalss such as TOW installs they have Width="50"
    Relevant? I don't see why if I can start on other single,dual, or triple runways.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  13. #13
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    One thing I notice - although I don't see why it would cause you to appear above the airbase in QC mode - is the use of this format "#Bombers#02" and 03, 04 etc.

    I would get rid of the zero and use #bombers#2, meaning a randomly chosen bomber of group 2. Putting in a string of bombers with different group numbers has the same effect as not using any group number at all - a string of different bombers. The point of using the group numbers (the second hash and the number after it) is to get a cluster of one type of bomber. So several entries of #bombers#2 would give several bombers of the same type - and assumes there is another set of entries for group 1 #Bombers#1.

    The use of groups in facility files is set out in the text file by Richard Eikland accompanying the Mission and Facility Editor.

    NB I've been meaning to mention that in the runway object file, there are about a dozen different surface types that can be chosen, including IIRC things like "macadam", and long grass.

    For TOW_airbase-single_2, the vehicles called by general pick type names are missing the # prefix, eg. #personnel_car

    Also, you use several different styles of naming airbase facility files, sometimes using a dash - and sometimes using an underscore. This makes it tricky to fill out the entry in the Global Layer correctly so that is another area to check, that the names are correct in the GL.

    However, the first thing to do is to go through the facility files and add any missing # tag in front of vehicle pick type names.

    When I use the Mission and Facility Editor (which has heaps of great features, like quickly and visually changing a path's location), the one trap is that on saving and closing, all the # characters are stripped from the xml file - can be a real drag!

  14. #14
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    I will certainly repair those pick type items. Are things like support_emergency_fire, Personnel_staff, support_gas also pick types needing "#" ?

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose View Post
    I will certainly repair those pick type items. Are things like support_emergency_fire, Personnel_staff, support_gas also pick types needing "#" ?
    Yes, those are all pick types, they allow for a random presentation of vehicles.

  16. #16
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    Well even though I fixed the "#" for all the picktypes, I still start above the runway on all variations of airbase_single_x, such as airbase-single_4 through 9. The Latter are variations from airbase_single_1 (namely NJG or TOW_airbase-single_4 & 7), airbase_single_2 (namely NJG or TOW_airbase-single_5 & 8), and airbase_single_3 (namely NJG or TOW_airbase-single_6 & 9)
    Now what is the difference; just the mos files and related dds files; other than that they are the same {with runway and approach lights added} except the surface type for the 1570 runway in the objects folder.
    As I said, the airbases are there, I just cant start on the runways!

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  17. #17
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    I went back to first principles which is easier to do with many installs, and compared 2 airbase_single_2.xml files; one that allows runway starts, and one that doesn't. The important difference comes down to this. I will try and refine further if possible.

    Starts:

    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-670.50 -493.29" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-716.52 -438.19" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-506.15 -367.10" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-552.16 -312.00" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-368.06 -256.29" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-414.08 -201.19" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="90.80 101.33" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="44.79 156.43" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-114.90 32.04" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-211.63 -135.66" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-257.65 -80.56" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-63.48 -22.00" Angle="53.50"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="261.71 325.01" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="308.29 267.62" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="169.92 254.18" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="215.94 199.08" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="370.14 411.06" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="416.16 355.96" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="464.70 483.83" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="510.72 428.73" Angle="-36.00"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light" Position="1361.56 1118.38" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="2352.84 1877.80" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="2166.93 1734.69" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="3175.74 2506.12" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="3377.40 2660.41" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="3466.40 2952.26" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="3492.79 2916.92" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="3519.83 2881.68" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="3546.60 2846.65" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="3574.54 2809.71" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="3601.57 2774.47" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="3627.96 2739.13" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="3655.00 2703.89" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="3681.78 2668.86" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="1965.26 1580.39" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="1561.72 1271.85" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="2554.83 2031.96" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="1158.29 963.22" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="956.42 808.98" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="754.76 654.69" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="2973.95 2351.81" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="2772.28 2197.52" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="1763.38 1426.14" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-642.59 -427.92" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-647.30 -431.60" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-652.06 -435.30" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-656.77 -438.97" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-661.50 -442.67" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-666.21 -446.35" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-670.97 -450.05" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-675.68 -453.72" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-680.48 -457.41" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-685.19 -461.09" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-724.49 -478.88" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-727.87 -474.57" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-731.27 -470.17" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-718.31 -486.86" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-721.22 -483.10" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-713.57 -483.21" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-708.86 -479.53" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-694.66 -468.46" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-689.95 -464.79" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-699.39 -472.16" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-704.10 -475.84" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-952.78 -668.81" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-1153.09 -824.86" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light" Position="-1353.61 -980.85" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light" Position="-1954.64 -1449.04" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-3725.39 -2885.05" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-3862.11 -2708.45" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-3835.03 -2743.24" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-3807.69 -2778.25" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-3780.99 -2813.36" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-3753.65 -2848.36" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-2540.13 -1905.82" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-3698.31 -2919.85" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-3670.97 -2954.85" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-3644.27 -2989.96" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-3557.82 -2697.35" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-3357.51 -2541.30" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-2155.16 -1605.05" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-2355.48 -1761.09" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-2740.77 -2061.74" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-3157.07 -2385.24" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-2956.76 -2229.19" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light1" Position="-1735.70 -1282.48" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="tow_approach_light" Position="-1525.30 -1114.31" Angle="-37.90"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="480.62 445.67" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="494.89 456.60" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="521.59 471.00" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="531.53 457.99" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="447.22 420.15" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="452.01 423.81" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="456.75 427.44" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="461.52 431.10" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="466.26 434.73" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="442.48 416.52" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="475.79 442.02" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="485.36 449.31" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="490.15 452.97" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="499.66 460.26" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="471.05 438.39" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="504.40 463.89" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="509.19 467.55" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="513.93 471.18" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="518.70 474.79" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="524.82 466.76" Angle="142.60"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="528.16 462.42" Angle="142.60"/>


    Not starts:

    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="575.98 575.64" Angle="-40.10"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-545.31 -404.40" Angle="-40.10"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-593.20 -342.41" Angle="-40.10"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-455.82 -334.22" Angle="-40.10"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-503.70 -272.24" Angle="-40.10"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="525.21 436.30" Angle="-40.10"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="478.17 498.95" Angle="-40.10"/>
    <Unit Type="runway_light_d" Position="-338.08 -241.91" Angle="-40.10"/>
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    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  18. #18
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    So, after careful comparing with note++, which my son explained is much better than ExamDiff.exe in that it provides more detail (a plugin for note++), It all boiled down to one entry!

    <Unit Type="runway_light_r" Position="-537.09 -349.40" Angle="-37.88"/>

    I have no idea why. maybe someone does.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  19. #19
    SOH-CM-2020
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    Good catch! With my frazzled brain it seemed to have too many variables.

    I liked your comment about shipping spawns, it motivated me to put up a post on the Knowledgebase about how to trigger small ship formations in coastal sectors.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose View Post
    I have no idea why. maybe someone does.
    ?Perhaps that entry sits in the middle of the runway?
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  21. #21
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    Hmmm! I can check with CFS3 Mission Editor.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  22. #22
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    Well it is sort of in the middle of the runway, as are other runway_light_r's which mark the beginning and end of the runways, so what's special about this one??

    In any case, fixing of this also solved the problem for other airbases which were based on airbase_single_2.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails runway_light_r.jpg  

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

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