Honeymoon's over; back to P3D for now.

[Navy Chief]

Actually, poor choice for title of post. Maybe "affair" would be more accurate! Ok, I admit it, MSFS2020 is amazing. However, until some of my favorite USN Cold War aircraft can be ported, converted.....whatever....to work in MSFS, I am back with P3DV5.

Gimme those tailhook birds ANYDAY over a tubeliner. Closest I get to flying one is a Navy C9 or a C40!

NC

[dhazelgrove]

Welcome back to the Dark Side.....

Dave

[expat]

Good to hear and see you back here NC!

[stansdds]

I am in the process of specing out a new computer build, finally going to replace my ancient Windows XP computer. I looked at MSFS and the specs are lower than what P3D requires, but given the immaturity of MSFS, I will be building with an eye towards going to P3D as my 32-bit flight sim. MSFS videos and screens look great, but from what I am reading it needs a lot of development before it can be a replacement for FSX and P3D.

[wombat666]

Finally sorted my 'Flight Sim only' system (the final minor but vital Phanteks bits arrived 12 weeks after ordering them!) and P3D4+ and P3D5 are loaded.
There is room for MFS2020 if I decide to go there, I'll wait for several months if necessary, as I'm only considering it based on stability and what Developers release.
Something I found with my previous system, a 1TB drive was not enough for my ORBX selections.
This time round I've allocated a 4TB SSD for scenery, it's just a pest having to download it all again!
I should add that direct from Microsoft the top of the range MFS2020 package has a sticker price around A$195.00+/- loose change.
As a matter of principle I'm not enthused.........

stansdds: you might add extra storage space, I was really annoyed to find I'd run out!

[CG_1976]

Nothing wrong playing with the Gaming MSFS. Lockheed is where the Academics and study level is and XP11 thru there Commercial Lic. Im restricted to Prepar3D per the USCG and Lockheed as IRL I deal with the HC27J. Even if the Restriction wasnt there I'd still be Prepar3D. If I want to cheat on it, id fly XP11, Im not going to be in debt building a new computer for MSFS, my money is better spent on helping Visual and Blind Impaired Vets.

[stansdds]

Im not going to be in debt building a new computer for MSFS, my money is better spent on helping Visual and Blind Impaired Vets.

Thumbs up for helping impaired veterans. I really have no choice with a new computer, this 10+ year old rig has served me very well, but it is now incompatible with anything that has come out in the past few years. Hate to do it, but it's actually past time for something new.

[ejoiner]

Actually, poor choice for title of post. Maybe "affair" would be more accurate! Ok, I admit it, MSFS2020 is amazing. However, until some of my favorite USN Cold War aircraft can be ported, converted.....whatever....to work in MSFS, I am back with P3DV5.

Gimme those tailhook birds ANYDAY over a tubeliner. Closest I get to flying one is a Navy C9 or a C40!

NC

Yep exactly. I still got both on the HD. MSFS is a good sim for general aviation. In fact thats all I fly in it. I have yet to touch one of the airliners. I am pissed there are no helicopters in it. P3D 4.5 will live on on my machine. I never upgraded to 5.0 P3D simply to let the rest of you guys work out the bugs first! (are we there yet?) All my addons I like work just fine in 4.5.

[Priller]

This new sim has been with us for a small month, and you guys expect to be bombarded with addons when even the SDK isn't finished yet?

I still got P3Dv4.5 on this rig, but as soon as the warbirds and modern fighters start to come out for the new sim, P3D is going.

MSFS is the future.

Before anyone gets angry on me: this is my opinion. Like ***holes, we all have them. (both of them)

Priller

[pilto von pilto]

This new sim has been with us for a small month, and you guys expect to be bombarded with addons when even the SDK isn't finished yet?

I still got P3Dv4.5 on this rig, but as soon as the warbirds and modern fighters start to come out for the new sim, P3D is going.

MSFS is the future.

Before anyone gets angry on me: this is my opinion. Like ***holes, we all have them. (both of them)

Priller

Except in this you are right. Three thumbs up.

A true dedicated ( and yes there is a distinction to be made here ) addon for this sim is a little while off. Why ? Download the SDK and read some of the documentation. 0.5.1 ( which I think is the latest ) still has pages and pages of [TO DO ] and then blindingly white page of nothingness. Since most devs dont want ( neither does MS/ASOBO ) to push out a "hacked" together thing it is going to take time.

[Navy Chief]

This new sim has been with us for a small month, and you guys expect to be bombarded with addons when even the SDK isn't finished yet?

I still got P3Dv4.5 on this rig, but as soon as the warbirds and modern fighters start to come out for the new sim, P3D is going.

MSFS is the future.

Before anyone gets angry on me: this is my opinion. Like ***holes, we all have them. (both of them)

Priller

I am in agreement with you, Priller. I heard that MS will not allow warbirds, military jets, etc. to have even inert weapons. I wonder if they will also prohibit aircraft carriers? NC

[wombat666]

I am in agreement with you, Priller. I heard that MS will not allow warbirds, military jets, etc. to have even inert weapons. I wonder if they will also prohibit aircraft carriers? NC

I'm not surprised Chief: looks like a fit of Political Correctness (probably) as the target audience are the junior 'gamers'.
Which is really hypocritical given the blood and guts garbage out there that small children play and MS sell.........................
Then again, I am really more interested in MSFS as a GA platform if I decide to adopt it, while I think pilto von pilto has confirmed my opinion that it was rushed out 'unfinished', probably to satisfy the bean counters.

[pilto von pilto]

I am in agreement with you, Priller. I heard that MS will not allow warbirds, military jets, etc. to have even inert weapons. I wonder if they will also prohibit aircraft carriers? NC

I'm genuinely interested ( obviously ) to hear more about this. can you share more info ?

I suspect that MSASOBO fear modders will "hack" a droppable weapons mod and before long you have 14 year old "xXx_LOLz0r69_xXXx" dropping ordinance on their schools because a teacher dared to ask where their homework was.

[Scorch00]

I personally didn't jump on the launch bandwagon knowing full well it was going to have a sea of updates and very little in the way of additional "stuff" to mess with. I also waited to see if I needed to "re-spec" my system to upgrade components based on other people's feedback. Glad I did that too, honestly. I'm sticking to P3Dv4.5 and DCS until the launch "phase" ends. And it's still likely I'm keeping both of those sims on my system indefinitely. I'm looking at probably investing into FS2020 early next year. I figure that should be enough time. SDK being mostly done, etc, etc. On the little group page I manage for all the firefighting stuff I've been up to. I've seen a lot of people do the same thing. They flew it for the first few weeks and then reverted back to their old setups until stuff is either updated or added. It does show a lot of promise. But with something so revolutionary, it's going to take time and patience. The latter is hard for me since I have a problem with it lol.

[Thomas J Wood]

I personally didn't jump on the launch bandwagon knowing full well it was going to have a sea of updates and very little in the way of additional "stuff" to mess with. I also waited to see if I needed to "re-spec" my system to upgrade components based on other people's feedback. Glad I did that too, honestly. I'm sticking to P3Dv4.5 and DCS until the launch "phase" ends. And it's still likely I'm keeping both of those sims on my system indefinitely. I'm looking at probably investing into FS2020 early next year. I figure that should be enough time. SDK being mostly done, etc, etc. On the little group page I manage for all the firefighting stuff I've been up to. I've seen a lot of people do the same thing. They flew it for the first few weeks and then reverted back to their old setups until stuff is either updated or added. It does show a lot of promise. But with something so revolutionary, it's going to take time and patience. The latter is hard for me since I have a problem with it lol.

True that.

TBH...The sim will actually need much more time then you guys think to finish. Its simply not in a finished state. This was a very aggressive project even for the mighty beast Microsoft to complete all that was promised on the schedule they set on the little design studio was brutal to say the least. I am so glad I didn't get caught in a dead end project like that with my studio. What they needed was to contract a seriously big studio to get it done, one with around 1000 employees, not just a few dozen. Bungie, maybe another big contractor with the people power to complete this job. As it is now I would say its roughly 60-70 % of the sim it needs to be to completely pull the community to it full time. Even then it would still not be "finished".

I have to be honest in this and say, friends... You may...or may not ever see a completed sim. If the $ bills keep piling up compared to the income THEY WANT TO MAKE...then don't be surprised that it dose not get to much further in production. Profit is the key word here and not just a small profit, they want a PREDETERMINED forecast profit margin that THEY want, simply covering costs of development with a small margin of profit just wont cut it with the beanie people.

Time will tell the tale, in 2 years we will see what we really got.

Personally, I don't think P3D AND FSX are going anywhere ANYTIME soon. But I do think Microsoft opened a new door to the future of sim development, whether it is in this MSFS or a more upgraded P3D or another upstart.

I have worked for huge studios and I will tell you the bean counters really do rule. If it isnt at the profit level they expected with in 6 months or sooner, then development will stop. That is the grim truth.

I know they didn't get the upstart sales or attraction they were shooting for on this release. So....

We will just have to see.

[centuryseries]

I'm genuinely interested ( obviously ) to hear more about this. can you share more info ?

I suspect that MSASOBO fear modders will "hack" a droppable weapons mod and before long you have 14 year old "xXx_LOLz0r69_xXXx" dropping ordinance on their schools because a teacher dared to ask where their homework was.

I doubt MS can control all the other third party shops and websites where you can download from, so although they might not welcome warbirds on their marketplace, that is not likely to stop anyone selling or making available such products elsewhere on the internet.

[pilto von pilto]

I doubt MS can control all the other third party shops and websites where you can download from, so although they might not welcome warbirds on their marketplace, that is not likely to stop anyone selling or making available such products elsewhere on the internet.

Agree , they couldnt. See the nexus mods site vs bethesda creation club. What they could do is make it impossible at the game level to add the thirdparty content.

Look at the current GUID marketplace and MS provided store tag. Lock it down via those 2 markers?

Also I'd say most people on here are passionate or at least have a higher than usual interest in the game as a whole. people on here have no issues in modifying files/ replacing files and tweaking . But the newcomers to the game or the people who dont know how to tweak wont be able to get that to work.

So an " official " marketplace addon ( droppable ordinance is not required but the lack of inert just for show weapons is something that might kill immersion ) would be a boon. Still hoping Navy Chief can come through with some more info. Havent see anything myself.

[DC1973]

Still hoping Navy Chief can come through with some more info. Havent see anything myself.

My 'rep' at the MS Mother Ship confirmed that weapons cannot be displayed on the Microsoft Store. I suggested that I could sell my products there with weapons made "invisible", and was told that this was perfectly acceptable. So I think that this is a display issue rather than anything else. FSX shipped with the FA-18, but it was an unarmed Blue Angels version, so this in principal for flight simulator is nothing new. There is nothing at all about "warbirds" being blacklisted in any way, just their armaments as far as I know.

My solution is to disable the XML gauge that controls weapons selection / visibility for the MS Store version, but include clear instructions on how to re-activate them in the manual. Keeps everybody happy, hopefully

[cavaricooper]

I value this community, and so I will share my thoughts... one opinion only.

MSFS is in its infancy. In a year, it will blossom and all our flight simulation will never be the same again. I see enough potential in the sim, for me to say this publicly. I will give you- my wife frequently thinks I am wrong.

Let's re-visit in October 2021... I'm betting that 70%+ of the FS crowd will be on MSFS by then. Obviously, will still be some who expound on the value of using FS98...

I have drunk the Kool-Aid, and it's wonderful

C

[ColoKent]

My 'rep' at the MS Mother Ship confirmed that weapons cannot be displayed on the Microsoft Store. I suggested that I could sell my products there with weapons made "invisible", and was told that this was perfectly acceptable. So I think that this is a display issue rather than anything else. FSX shipped with the FA-18, but it was an unarmed Blue Angels version, so this in principal for flight simulator is nothing new. There is nothing at all about "warbirds" being blacklisted in any way, just their armaments as far as I know.

My solution is to disable the XML gauge that controls weapons selection / visibility for the MS Store version, but include clear instructions on how to re-activate them in the manual. Keeps everybody happy, hopefully

So it's not a sim capability issue, it's an um....non-sim display issue...related to um...."other" considerations.

Got it. Interesting-- but not surprising the more I think of it....

Kent

[pilto von pilto]

My 'rep' at the MS Mother Ship confirmed that weapons cannot be displayed on the Microsoft Store. I suggested that I could sell my products there with weapons made "invisible", and was told that this was perfectly acceptable. So I think that this is a display issue rather than anything else. FSX shipped with the FA-18, but it was an unarmed Blue Angels version, so this in principal for flight simulator is nothing new. There is nothing at all about "warbirds" being blacklisted in any way, just their armaments as far as I know.

My solution is to disable the XML gauge that controls weapons selection / visibility for the MS Store version, but include clear instructions on how to re-activate them in the manual. Keeps everybody happy, hopefully

Works like steam and simmarket with logos/insignia then. Only difference is that steam and simmarket actively prohibits you from linking or even mentioning how to enable insignias. Hopefully MS doesnt put that into it's stipulations.

[Bomber_12th]

I have read elsewhere that Microsoft's ban on weapons on aircraft available from the in-game marketplace most likely has to do with the problem it would cause in being in conflict with the "E for Everyone" ESRB rating.

[ColoKent]

I have read elsewhere that Microsoft's ban on weapons on aircraft available from the in-game marketplace most likely has to do with the problem it would cause in being in conflict with the "E for Everyone" ESRB rating.

Yep...thought it was probably something exactly like that...well, anyway, back to P3D (for other reasons)...

Kent

[Bomber_12th]

Of course nothing is stopping anyone from selling their aircraft products, however they want them, weapons and all, on their own websites or through vendor websites, and Microsoft/Asobo encourages that too.

[DC1973]

Of course nothing is stopping anyone from selling their aircraft products, however they want them, weapons and all, on their own websites or through vendor websites, and Microsoft/Asobo encourages that too.

That's absolutely right, and given the 2-4 week check-over that MS will be giving third-party products before they appear in store, I reckon most of mine will be on the third-party sites long before they appear at MS for that very reason.

Heading back to the OP's original thread subject, I love the new sim and have no intentions of using the older platforms again for flying fun - as others have said, it's early days and the SDK is woefully inadequate, but we're getting there. I start full-time on MSFS development tomorrow ( conversions of my existing products )