Aeroplane Heaven

[DennyA]

One thing though. A full cockpit in CTRL ezy is likely to never happen. Not the point of CTRL-ezy. Adding a full cockpit will raise the development time , research requirements and a number of other things. We want to keep the price point where it is and we want to make it still accessible to FSX which has that STUPID poly count/material issue. An xbox user is not going to care if the flare pockets on the mosquito are in the correct place and are in the correct shade of brown. They will however as baz has alluded to, be less willing to pay the higher prices for DLC that FS normally dictates.

You misunderstand me. By full cockpit, I don't mean "every switch animated and functional even if it's behind my butt."

I mean "polygons all around me so when I look down at my butt by panning the view or playing in VR I don't see holes in the plane."

This has already been hashed out all over the place in the old Pucara topic, but what it boils down is many of us free-look around the cockpit, either via VR or mouse-panning, and just want something there to maintain the sense of disbelief. It can be the most basic cockpit-colored set of polygons, just not a big gaping hole. With the way the views are implemented in MSFS, I think even fewer people use snap views. People on a game controller have a panning view by default.

But those same Xbox players are likely to be happy with Ctrl-EZ levels of details on inexpensive planes -- this hardcore flight simmer is for many aircraft.

Your hardcore rivet-counter is going to be looking at stringers and control wires and all that crap. The vast majority of players are just going to be happy with something that looks convincing and complete and is exciting to fly.

In the meantime, I am very much looking forward to the detailed Spit. I have a bunch of those already between IL-2 and DCS, but I'll happily buy it to support AH's efforts because I've been a fan since I got my Gulfhawk back in the FS2004 days.

[edakridge]

Another thing that I would look at with your CTRL+easy aircraft is performance impact on the sim. It appears that the complex aircraft systems take a toll on performance in MSFS. I can attest that the "Tubeliners" make a VERY large impact compared to the GA planes.

[Daube]

Another thing that I would look at with your CTRL+easy aircraft is performance impact on the sim. It appears that the complex aircraft systems take a toll on performance in MSFS. I can attest that the "Tubeliners" make a VERY large impact compared to the GA planes.

Did you install the mod that limits the FPS impact of the MFDs in the liners ?

[jmig]

...To all :
To re-iterate this spitfire is going to be a full octane Aeroplaneheaven release being developed by a spitfire tragic ( love ya baz! ) for MSFS and possibly P3d if I can annoy/whine/cajole baz into letting the rest of us convert it. It is not going to be a CTRL-ezy Spitfire.

[warchild]

I'll second that enthusiastic thumbs up..

[pilto von pilto]

You misunderstand me. By full cockpit, I don't mean "every switch animated and functional even if it's behind my butt."

I mean "polygons all around me so when I look down at my butt by panning the view or playing in VR I don't see holes in the plane."

This has already been hashed out all over the place in the old Pucara topic, but what it boils down is many of us free-look around the cockpit, either via VR or mouse-panning, and just want something there to maintain the sense of disbelief. It can be the most basic cockpit-colored set of polygons, just not a big gaping hole. With the way the views are implemented in MSFS, I think even fewer people use snap views. People on a game controller have a panning view by default.

But those same Xbox players are likely to be happy with Ctrl-EZ levels of details on inexpensive planes -- this hardcore flight simmer is for many aircraft.

Your hardcore rivet-counter is going to be looking at stringers and control wires and all that crap. The vast majority of players are just going to be happy with something that looks convincing and complete and is exciting to fly.

In the meantime, I am very much looking forward to the detailed Spit. I have a bunch of those already between IL-2 and DCS, but I'll happily buy it to support AH's efforts because I've been a fan since I got my Gulfhawk back in the FS2004 days.

The spitfire is a labour of love. There will ALWAYS be a spitfire available from AH. There isnt an MSFS spitfire right now. The likelihood of a spitfire coming to MSFS is low due to the communities almost dislike of warbirds or odd ball or vintage aircraft ( it is true a Cessna will outsell a spitfire 2:1 or even 3:1 ). And have you seen a spitfire ? It's pretty much the most perfect plane ever made , it's the jaguar e-type of aircraft. ( though I'm also partial to the hawker hunter and the brutish-ness of the p47 ).

As you say the CE has been hashed over in the pucara thread infinitum. The CE premise is likely not to change. CE products are probably not the products for you and that is ok. It's like cars you have the top end passionates who want performance,luxury and technical wizardry then you have the people who view it as an appliance for getting from A -> B, and then the people in the middle. No "tribe" is right or wrong.

[Navy Chief]

I rarely fly vintage warbirds, but I would LOVE to fly a Spitfire in MSFS2020! Cessnas? YAWN.....NC

[DennyA]

The likelihood of a spitfire coming to MSFS is low due to the communities almost dislike of warbirds or odd ball or vintage aircraft ( it is true a Cessna will outsell a spitfire 2:1 or even 3:1 ).

I'd be careful about making that assumption. I would guess the market has changed a lot for MSFS vs. the people who were flying the old sims. Lots of new blood, many of them coming from gaming instead of avaiation. And once the Xbox folks join in, more action-oriented planes might very well jump in popularity.

As for Ctrl-EZ, I keep tellin' ya, I am the market. I used to LOVE the old Alphasim planes -- good prices and enough detail to be convincing while I'm flying, but the cockpits on those old F7U, F4D, etc, planes were pretty darn simple. Bought most of them, though, and had no complaints. I'm happy with the cockpit detail below, for the most part, just don't want holes.

[bazzar]

You need to check out the pics of our upcoming Javelin for Ctrl/Ezy. You will see that we have listened to a lot of input over the months. Additionally, exterior-wise you get a 100 octane AH production model and full PBR inside and out.

The equation is a simple one. More detail = more build time. More build time = more build costs. More build costs = higher product price.

Ctrl/Ezy was created to deliver a basic simulation experience for those who don't bother about systems and want something to fly around the sky take screenshots and enjoy the scenery. We can build them faster which means more variety and Ctrl/Ezy delivers as intended for $19.95 regardless of the subject - fighter or airliner. We think that is not bad value by today's standards.

It's worked. We will not be changing much.

[noddy]

The Javelin soon, can't wait.

Great to see some out of the ordinary planes are coming, I know the Crtl/Ezy concept has provoked a lot of discussion but if it provides the Jaguar, Javelin, Pucara etc. I am a happy chappie.

[K5083]

I don't profess to know anything about the market for add-on planes, but just speaking for myself, the Spitfire sounds like exactly the product I want for FS20.

Now, having made the above admission of ignorance, some thoughts on the market.

Warbirds and vintage are a niche in flight sims but it seems a valid point that FS20 has crossover appeal to the War Thunder and military gamer crowd that might augment the audience.

The complexity and resulting additional cost/time to develop addons is something we have seen with every new gen of flight sims. Each iteration further separates the men from the boys when it comes to developers, which is good news from the standpoint of less competition if you are one of the men.

The apparent difficulty (impossibility?) of fully converting legacy aircraft is also good news for developers since they will face less competition from port-overs of every payware and freeware plane ever released for FSX. And while that's frustrating for users in the short run, part of me is happy about it. I do not want thrice-warmed-over planes originally built for CFS2 in my FS20 - I'll keep P3D and even FSX installed indefinitely for those! - and I don't want the existence of those planes to stifle the development of great new FS20 planes.

Finally, Adobo/MS seem to have done developers of vintage/warbird add-on planes a big favor by providing no such types among the stock aircraft, and thus far displaying no interest in doing so. The field is wide open.

August

[wombat666]

I'd be careful about making that assumption. I would guess the market has changed a lot for MSFS vs. the people who were flying the old sims. Lots of new blood, many of them coming from gaming instead of avaiation. And once the Xbox folks join in, more action-oriented planes might very well jump in popularity.

As for Ctrl-EZ, I keep tellin' ya, I am the market. I used to LOVE the old Alphasim planes -- good prices and enough detail to be convincing while I'm flying, but the cockpits on those old F7U, F4D, etc, planes were pretty darn simple. Bought most of them, though, and had no complaints. I'm happy with the cockpit detail below, for the most part, just don't want holes.

Good grief!
Is that the ancient and awful Matchbox Spit 24!

[Dimus]

Good grief!
Is that the ancient and awful Matchbox Spit 24!

Indeed it is! I was a teenager still when I made that! I can now even start remembering the Humbrol enamel colour codes! 11 was for silver, 33 for matt black and 120 the light interior grey-green. Oh those innocent days!

You're right though, it was dreadful! The panel lines, even in the 1/32 scale were like WWI trenches deep.

[warchild]

Well, one thing is for sure.. I personally dont intend to spend my entire time in FS2020 flying a damned cessna, and this goes a very long way to correcting that glaring oversight..

[Navy Chief]

Well, one thing is for sure.. I personally dont intend to spend my entire time in FS2020 flying a damned cessna, and this goes a very long way to correcting that glaring oversight..

Here, HERE! I second that emotion! NC

[Snurdley]

I really don't know what I'm going to do without the Jug and Mossie in MSFS...

[Sundog]

Well, one thing is for sure.. I personally dont intend to spend my entire time in FS2020 flying a damned cessna, and this goes a very long way to correcting that glaring oversight..

Damn straight! I need some planes with flame throwers shootin' out the back, and some with the big round loud engines (Seriously, how did MSFS not even include a classic like a DC-33, Ford Trimotor, or something old to at least help the classic airframe ache)?

[pilto von pilto]

Damn straight! I need some planes with flame throwers shootin' out the back, and some with the big round loud engines (Seriously, how did MSFS not even include a classic like a DC-33, Ford Trimotor, or something old to at least help the classic airframe ache)?

Could be they're holding it back ? I would. Hypothetical here

Release a game/sim that historically appeals to the systems deep /rivet counters. It would be a waste of time and money to make a F86 or a buccaneer for that crowd. However you will be releasing the same game/sim for the xbox crowd later, who historically ( I know as I am an xbox user ) like the more boom and zoom light the fyres and kick the tyres ( speelt correckly ) then they come in and release those types of planes as a DLC package.

I think we SOH people straddle those 2 markets and that is where it gets frustrating for us. We want the fidelity of the current pc release but want the planes from the xbox release and the price of the xbox release.

Side note : I think baz still has an unbuilt matchbox 1:24 spitfire kicking around... or its the airfix one. The only thing that might slow the dev down on the AH spit is if baz finds the glue and humbrol pots we hid from him.

[dvj]

Mosquito! Please!

[modelr]

I also still have that Matchbox Spit mk22/24 1/32 scale in the box also, as well as the Dauntless and Me109E in 1/24 scale in the boxes. They were good for teaching the young'uns to build.

[Priller]

I think baz still has an unbuilt matchbox 1:24 spitfire kicking around... or its the airfix one. The only thing that might slow the dev down on the AH spit is if baz finds the glue and humbrol pots we hid from him.

EPIC!!!!

Priller

[bazzar]

I also still have that Matchbox Spit mk22/24 1/32 scale in the box also, as well as the Dauntless and Me109E in 1/24 scale in the boxes. They were good for teaching the young'uns to build.

I've got about 750 boxed kits in the cupboard. Mostly collector kits in mint boxes but some are builders. Most of the classic Matchbox 1:32 series are there including the Tiger Moth, BF109, Stuka and Dauntless and the Seafire of course.. Great kits, beautifully made. Never understood why they never made it to collector grade prices. Still, no guilt over building them I suppose.

My favourite is a Russian 1:72 Spitfire Mk1 which, judging by the fuselage and wing shapes was probably manufactured somewhere near Chernobyl. The box is bullet-proof cardboard and the art was probably done by the same guy that did those Lenin posters.

The Airfix 1:24 Spit, Hurricane and P51 are all on the "to do" list for when I get old... but wait....I am old....

[keithb77]

My son has the 1-24 Airfix Spit which he wants us to make together...but we live 200 miles apart...
Meanwhile I make do ...

Cheers
Keith

[bazzar]

hmmm, distance modeling...you might have something there. Didn't Airfix try virtual modeling a while back? I seem to remember something about that. In 3D modeling you have the advantage of Ctrl/Z if you make a mistake no glue mess to clear up.

[wombat666]

I've got about 750 boxed kits in the cupboard. Mostly collector kits in mint boxes but some are builders. Most of the classic Matchbox 1:32 series are there including the Tiger Moth, BF109, Stuka and Dauntless and the Seafire of course.. Great kits, beautifully made. Never understood why they never made it to collector grade prices. Still, no guilt over building them I suppose.
My favourite is a Russian 1:72 Spitfire Mk1 which, judging by the fuselage and wing shapes was probably manufactured somewhere near Chernobyl. The box is bullet-proof cardboard and the art was probably done by the same guy that did those Lenin posters.
The Airfix 1:24 Spit, Hurricane and P51 are all on the "to do" list for when I get old... but wait....I am old....

Of course the old kit modellers saying is worth reiterating: 'He who dies with the most kits doesn't win, he just dies!'
Way back when I was a member of IPMS Victoria 0ne of our members used to buy 3 of everything, 1 to build, 1 to kit bash and 1 for his 'collection'.
When he died about 10 years later the IPMS team who were sorting through his stuff were almost overwhelmed by the amount of styrene in his home.
Unfortunately they had all been opened a fiddled with!