Douglas A-20 Havoc Project

[aleatorylamp]

Hi Ivan,

It seems that our tastes are similar... I also prefer the early versions with the
dorsal flexible gun mount instead of the turrets.

Anyway, don´t worry. You do the early A-20G - I won´t intgerfere with a Russian one.
I´ve decided to do the Australian A-20A and the American A-20B as per enclosed screenshots.

As can be seen, the textures now include the area immediately surrounding the nose guns.
Now for the panelling and the SCASMing.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

There really isn't any "interfering". We each build what we want to. What you build isn't going to affect my choices.
The glazed nose version I had ben planning on building was the A-20C, but for now the A-20G is a lot more simple and it is better to have SOMETHING completed than just a bunch of projects in consideration. I have WAY too many of those already.
There are not that many external changes to get from a G to a C model anyway.

- Ivan.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,

A, B, C, G... too many versions! I´ll stick to my decision of a solid-nosed A and a B.
Don´t worry, the fact that you are intending to produce an early G is not the reason
for my decision - it´s only a pretext to simplify my choice, shall we say!

I had initially intended to go for a glazed-nosed version, A, B or C, whatever, but got
stuck with the complicated glazed nose, for which I wouldn´t have had the available
parts anyhow.

As there were solid nosed A variants, I went for that, but then I hadn´t enough parts
for the cheek guns, so I went for the B variant with 4 nose guns, and also investigated
the possible early G version with 6 nose guns and no cheek guns that went on lend-lease
to Russia, which was a derivation of the A, very similar.

However, after further investigation, it turns out that the cheek guns were options, not
a standard, as you have also pointed out, so I don´t have to include yet another variant,
and I have decided to stick to my 2 solid-nosed variants, an A and a B, and no Russian G.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

The Glazed Nose on the A-20 really isn't particularly complicate but you are correct, it does cost significant resources in a AF99 project.

Over the weekend, I put together a new reference drawing for the A-20G that takes into account the current information that I have. It isn't VERY different from what I had before, but it IS different. What is interesting though is that the additional information that is incorporated into the drawing isn't really new. I just had not really comprehended its meaning the last time.
This time, The reference drawing is a turret equipped A-20G. Lets see how far I get before that becomes an issue.

The problem right now is that we are having some construction done at our house. Last week, they were breaking up a concrete patio, so there was always the sound of jackhammers. It was quiet over the weekend because they poured new concrete at the end of last week. Today, there is the rather nice sound of wood being moved and circular saws.... and also a rather loud compressor going. There is also some other equipment I can't identify by the sound.
The house is small, so there is no place to go to escape the sound.

Today is also my Daughter's Birthday, so I probably won't be spending much time on the computer. She says she wants to hang out with Dad today.

- Ivan.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,

There is such a lot of information on the Havoc that it takes time to see what
is really relevant for the specific models one is interested in.

My A and B models are coming along fine, and after a considerable number of different
tries, I fortunately managed to find a glue sequence that does not make gear-doors
interfere with wheel-wells and engine-nacelles, and also did some minor panelling on
the textures.

Then, I got rid of the annoying hairline cracks on wings and fuselage components,
so all in all, I´m quite pleased with the results. Parts counts is at 149.3% and 149.5%
for the two models, and now I´m starting to do the Virtual Cockpit SCASMing.

As soon as that´s done, I´ll adjust the Dp files, and then I can upload the models.
It seems to be going well. Here are a few screenshots.

The camo-coloured model flew with the RAAF in the Pacific theatre, and seems to have
had the top score for missions flown, and the brown USAF one served in Tunisia in 1943.
Judging by the stars on its nose-art, it didn´t do badly either!

It´s amazing how rugged and versatile the Havocs were. Certainly a feat of engineering!

Good luck with the building work. Here in our building, neighbours frequently change
floor tiles and move doorways, and that kind of noise quite irritating, but there are
worse things in life!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

Update: The Virtual Cockpit has just been done. Here´s 2 more screenshots.
S.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello All,

I finally remembered how to get yellow tips onto propeller textures, so they too are on now.

Then, regarding the weapons on the A-20B, apart from the 4 instead of 6 nose MG´s I already
mentioned, I found that it also had only one dorsal MG, but to compensate, it could carry 2400 lb
of bombs instead of the A-20A´s 1600 lb.

Also, the engine types used on the -A and -B were 2x1600 hp 14-cyl R-2600-3 or -11 Twin Cyclone radials, not -23 as I had before, although the power was the same.

Anyway, here´s a new screenshot of the A-20B.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Folks,

I was wondering what type of bombs would be the most convenient for CFS, to make up the
1600 lb bomb load of the Havoc A-20A and the 2400 lb bombload of the A-20B.

If it were the 100 lb bomb type, loads would be 16 and 24. Would this be desirable for CFS1?
Another possibility would be to use 200 lb bombs, loading 8 and 12 bombs - if 200 lb bombs existed,
of course, which I doubt.

What would be best?

Thanks in advance for your answers.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Folks,

It seems that smaller bomb types were 100 lb or 300 lb, (apart from even smaller incendiaries).
Bigger ones (500 lb or 1000 lb) in the model would reduce simmer´s bombing opportunities.

I noticed in the A-20B flight manual, that my previous 2400 lb max. bomb-load was incorrect:
It was 1800 lb internally, and 1600 lb externally, so I´ll settle for a 6x300 lb bombs internal
bomb-load.

As per the A-20A flight manual, my 1600 lb bomb-load info is correct. Typical was a full
bomb-load of 16x100 lb bombs, or also 4x300 lb bombs, the latter amounting to a total
of 1200 lb, which is the the load I favour.

Should anyone have any other suggestions, perhaps an A-20B load of 18x100 lb bombs,
and an A-20A load of 16x100 lb bombs, please let me know soon.

I´ve finallly got the firing angles right in the Dp files, so that the gun flashes are correct.
Once I get the bombs sorted out, I´ll upload the two Havocs!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[aleatorylamp]

Hello folks,

I´ve just uploaded the two Havocs. The aircraft will be available for download as soon
as they have been authorized by the librarian:

A-20A:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...id=19&id=27477

A-20B:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...id=19&id=27478

I was just checking that the Havoc A-20A and A-20B .air files have the correct performance.
The real plane had two Wright R-2600-3 or -11 14-cyl radial engines,
with the following performance data:
S.L. : 1600 Hp, 314 mph, 2600 RPM
13000 ft: 1350 Hp, 342 mph, 2600 RPM

The Supercharger on the CFS model is installed as follows:
Boost Gain: 2.0
Max. MP : 42.3
WEP: Type 2
WEP MP increase: 2 in. Hg.
Total WEP MP: 44.3

CFS1 A-20 Havoc Model .air file Performance:
--------------------------------------------
(with full tanks and no bomb load) Max. 2590 RPM.

at 500 ft :
Non-WEP: 1505 hp, 309.6 mph, 42.3 MP
WEP: 1602 hp, 314.7 mph, 44.3 MP

at 5000 ft :
Non WEP: 1572 hp, 327.9 mph, 42.3 MP
WEP: 1672 hp, 335.3 mph, 44.3 MP

at 7500 ft:
Non WEP: 1610 hp, 343.5 mph, 42.3 MP
WEP: 1710 hp, 349.6 mph, 44.2 MP

at 10000 ft: 1541 hp, 347.3 mph, 40.2 MP
at 13000 ft: 1347 Hp, 343.5 mph, 35.6 MP

Then, DP Files incorporate following weapons:

A-20A:
------
Bombs: 1200 lb internal bombload - 4 x 300 lb bombs.
A total of 9 x 0.30 cal. machine-guns with 1000 rounds each:
6 fixed nose guns, 2 flexible dorsal guns, and 1 flexible ventral gun.

A-20B:
------
Bombs: 1800 lb internal bombload - 6 x 300 lb bombs. The model has no external bombs.
A total of 6 x 0.30 cal. machine-guns with 1000 rounds each:
Two 0.50 cal. and two 0.30 cal. nose guns, 1 flexible dorsal 0.50 cal. gun and 1 flexible ventral 0.30 cal. gun.

I hope you enjoy the two aircraft!
Merry Christmas to all! May you all have a wonderful celebration with your loved ones.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[aleatorylamp]

A new entry has been added to Add-Ons Library, category CFS 1 Aircraft Add-Ons

Description: CFS1 Douglas A-20A Havoc, RAAF.
----------------------------------------
The Douglas A-20 Havoc was an American medium bomber, attack aircraft, night intruder, night fighter, and reconnaissance aircraft, which saw service in every theatre during WW II.

In British Commonwealth air forces these bombers were known as Boston. It was fast, manoeuverable, and easy to fly, often exceeding the requirement for a light, twin-engine bomber. It had a pronounced ability to fly on one engine and its airframe was specifically designed to withstand the damage and still keep her crew alive.

The Havoc was powered by two 1600 hp Wright R-2600-3 or -11 Twin Cyclone 14-cyl radial engines, and had a top speed of 297 knots. It could carry up to 1600 lb of bombs and was equipped with nine 0.30 cal. machine-gun s: 6 in the nose, 2 flexible dorsal ones, and 1 ventral one. This release features unit DU-K in camouflage livery, which served in the Pacific theatre, achieving top score in number of missions flown.

Contains CFS1 .air file, AFX and PCX Source files, DP files, SCASM corrected Virtual Cockpit, and custom panel for mainly default and FSFS gauges, RPM and Boost gauges by Ivan from Sim Outhouse, as well as a modified Smilo´s Bomb aimer´s panel.

By Stephan Scholz.

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit CFS1 A-20A Havoc RAAF.zip
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.

[aleatorylamp]

A new entry has been added to Add-Ons Library, category CFS 1 Aircraft Add-Ons

Description: Douglas A-20B Havoc, USAF.
-------------------------------
The Douglas A-20B Havoc was an American medium bomber, attack aircraft, night intruder, night fighter, and reconnaissance aircraft, which saw service in every theatre during WW II.

In British Commonwealth air forces these bombers were known as Boston. It was fast, manoeuverable, and easy to fly, often exceeding the requirement for a light, twin-engine bomber. It had a pronounced ability to fly on one engine, and the airframe was specifically designed to withstand the damage and still keep her crew alive.

The Havoc A-20B was powered by two 1600 hp Wright R-2600-3 or -11 Twin Cyclone 14-cyl radial engines, and had a top speed of 297 knots. It carried upto 1800 lb of bombs internally, and was equipped with 4 nose MG´s (two 0.50 cal. and two 0.30 cal.), one flexible 0.50 cal. dorsal MG, and one 0.30 cal. ventral MG. This release features unit No 14 in service in Tunisia in 1943.

Contains CFS1 .air file, AFX and PCX Source files, DP files, SCASM corrected Virtual Cockpit, and custom panel for mainly default and FSFS gauges, RPM and Boost gauges by Ivan from Sim Outhouse, as well as a modified Smilo´s Bomb aimer´s panel.
By Stephan Scholz.Douglas A-20B Havoc, USAF.
-------------------------------
The Douglas A-20B Havoc was an American medium bomber, attack aircraft, night intruder, night fighter, and reconnaissance aircraft, which saw service in every theatre during WW II.


In British Commonwealth air forces these bombers were known as Boston. It was fast, manoeuverable, and easy to fly, often exceeding the requirement for a light, twin-engine bomber. It had a pronounced ability to fly on one engine, and the airframe was specifically designed to withstand the damage and still keep her crew alive.


The Havoc A-20B was powered by two 1600 hp Wright R-2600-3 or -11 Twin Cyclone 14-cyl radial engines, and had a top speed of 297 knots. It carried upto 1800 lb of bombs internally, and was equipped with 4 nose MG´s (two 0.50 cal. and two 0.30 cal.), one flexible 0.50 cal. dorsal MG, and one 0.30 cal. ventral MG. This release features unit No 14 in service in Tunisia in 1943.


Contains CFS1 .air file, AFX and PCX Source files, DP files, SCASM corrected Virtual Cockpit, and custom panel for mainly default and FSFS gauges, RPM and Boost gauges by Ivan from Sim Outhouse, as well as a modified Smilo´s Bomb aimer´s panel.


By Stephan Scholz.

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit CFS1 A-20B Havoc, USAF.zip
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.

[kdriver]

Thanks very much Stephan - well done!

Kevin

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Kdriver,
Thank you very much for your motivating comment!
I´m glad you like it!
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

I had meant to reply to your query about bomb loads yesterday but was out of the house most of the day and then had to clean up my Gun Room because today the builders will be breaking through the wall into that room..... Didn't get to a computer until pretty late in the day and a cell phone isn't good for posting anything significant.

I BELIEVE your stated limitations on bomb loads for the A-20 series is way too restrictive.
As you pointed out, just about all the A-20 had close to the same engine power (at least down low) and dimensions were the same. I don't think their bomb loads actually differed much except for perhaps the arrangement of bomb shackles.

I would have gone for a standard 500 pound bomb for both versions with reasons as discussed here:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...525-Bomb-loads

The first several posts specifically discuss the A-20.

I believe you will find that for the A-20 just like most other aircraft, the Maximum Take-Off Weight is the limitation.
If you carry more bombs, you can't carry as much other STUFF such as fuel or ammunition or vice versa.
The last post in that thread gives a pretty good break down regarding MTOW.

That earlier discussion started off with a concern with the number of bombs. At the very end, I believe I gave a pretty interesting discussion on how to configure the DP for a light medium using my B-25C Mitchell.
The same should work for a light bomber like the A-20.

------

Glad to see your releases are completed. Screenshots look pretty good!

- Ivan.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,

Thanks for your comments.

As per pictures of the corresponding pages in the flight operations manuals of the
two Havoc models, the bombloads I defined are quite realistic, i.e. 4 x 300 lb for
the A-20A and 6 x 300 lb bombs for the A-20B, although the latter is a bit confusing
as per the interpretation of the flight manual instructions.

The picture of the bombbay and possible bomb sizes perhaps would indicate that
only a maximum of four internal 300 lb bombs are possible.
Well... we´ll have to imagine the two extra bombs on the racks then.

In the checklists of the two aircraft I set up a page with the corresponding
flight flight plans. There seems to have been a limitation regarding the size of
the bomb bay, and the A-20B´s external bomb capacity is not contemplated
on the model.

Then, bigger bombs like 600 lb ones would considerably reduce the number of
opportunities for simmers.

Some sources state a 4000 lb bombload for the Havoc, but I believe this could
possibly refer to the "G" model.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

I also went through a few of the posts in the bomb loads thread that I linked earlier.
The A-20 apparently could carry 2000 pounds in its internal bomb bay.
There were two hard points outboard of the engines each capable of an additional 500 pound bomb.
In the late G models, the wings were strengthened and a PAIR of 500 pound bombs could be carried outboard of each engine.

Keep in mind that ALL bombs regardless of size have exactly the same effect in CFS. It makes no difference if it is a 2 pound grenade or a 22,000 pound Grand Slam. That is what a lot of the discussion in the bomb load thread was about.
It seems like just about everyone had some kind of 500 pound or 250 Kg bomb and for most aircraft it is a pretty reasonable pick.

As for large bombs reducing the opportunities for simmers, one has to also remember how bombing runs were made.
A plane carrying 10 bombs didn't drop one bomb on the target and then repeat another 9 times. All 10 bombs were salvoed at once. That was what the last couple posts in that thread were about: How to simulate that with aircraft that carried large bomb loads.

The player should have ONE chance per sortie. That is how it really was.
It gets even worse when the formation leader aims badly and everyone is bombing on his signal.
Bombs in the Zoo, anyone?

- Ivan.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,

Well, taking into account the MTOW of the two planes, the possibility of giving the A-20B a load of 18x100 lb bombs, and the A-20-A a load of 16x100 lb bombs, I thought was a bit cumbersome, or impractical, but both are actually also realistic. For that matter, 2x600 Lb bombs or 1x1000 lb is also realistic for both these planes.

At the end of the day, simmers will write their own favourite bombloads into the Dp files, because
such is the beauty and flexibility of CFS.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

You and I can fix most things even with a broken MDL without the source most of the time if we care to spend the effort.
Most people don't have the tools or knowledge to do that.
AIR files are tedious but not that difficult unless you get to the really fine tuning stage.
One would think DP files are not that difficult either except that there are so many bad ones out there it doesn't appear that very many developers know what they are doing.

-----

The builders came in yesterday afternoon to cut through the drywall under the hallway window.
The plan was to get access to the wooden frame of the house under two of the windows (the second window is in my Gun Room) so they could anchor the frame of the addition to frame of the house.
What they actually found surprised them and us. There actually isn't a wooden frame in my house. It is Cinderblock covered by Brick on the outside and by drywall on the inside. With cinderblock construction, they apparently don't need to get into the Gun Room and can do everything from outside.....

-----

Last night, I finally had the chance to load your pair of A-20 Havoc into a simulator.
It was past 1:00 AM when I did this, so I didn't spend a lot of time checking them out, but I did find a few interesting things.
There are a bunch of things you and I simply do differently.....

- Ivan.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Folks,

By special request from Smilo, I´m preparing a D-Day Havoc model as per
attached photograph.

The black-and-white-striped livery is rather spectacular looking, I must say!

The model is ready now, with a packed AF99 149.5% Parts Count.
It has the 9 x 0.50 MG´s: 6 in the nose, 2 dorsal and one ventral, and will
be equipped with a full 2000 lb internal bomb-load of 20 x 100 lb.
What could create more havoc?

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Folks,
OK, the D-Day Havoc Textures are done now.
Now for the SCASMing to correct the Virtual Cockpit,
and I´ll upload the machine.
Meanwhile, here are some pics as eye-candy!
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[aleatorylamp]

Hello All,

I´ve just uploaded the "D-Day" Havoc A-20 at the CFS1 warbirds library,
and it will be available as soon as it has been approved by the librarian.
Here´s the link:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...id=19&id=27519

I hope you like it.

A Merry Christmas to all!
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[aleatorylamp]

A new entry has been added to Add-Ons Library, category CFS 1 Aircraft Add-Ons

Description: CFS1 Douglas A-20 "D-Day" Havoc, USAF.
--------------------------------------
The Douglas A-20 Havoc was an American medium bomber, attack aircraft, night intruder, night fighter, and reconnaissance aircraft, which saw service in every theatre during WW II, and was named "Boston" in British Commonwealth air forces. It was fast, manoeuverable, and easy to fly, and although classified as a light bomber, it proved its worth as a medium bomber. It had a pronounced ability to fly on one engine, and the airframe was specifically designed to withstand the damage and still keep her crew alive.

The "D-Day" Havoc A-20 was powered by two 1600 hp Wright R-2600-23 Twin Cyclone 14-cyl radial engines, and had a top speed of 297 knots. It carried upto 2000 lb of bombs internally, and was equipped with nine 0.50 cal. machine-guns: 6 MG´s in the nose, two dorsal MG´s and one ventral MG. This release features unit 5H-H with in black-and-white striped D-Day livery, 1944.

Contains CFS1 .air file, AFX and PCX Source files, DP files, SCASM corrected Virtual Cockpit, and custom panel for mainly default and FSFS gauges, RPM and Boost gauges by Ivan from Sim Outhouse, as well as a modified Smilo´s Bomb aimer´s panel.
By Stephan Scholz.

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit CFS1 A-20 Havoc D-Day USAF 1944
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Rami,
Thanks for re-directing the 3 Havocs to this thread!

Hello Shessi,
Thanks for announcing Chris Lampard´s Czech Avia B-135.
A very interesting and excellent-looking model!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

I am glad Smilo finally got his A-20 after all these years. We had been discussing this beast since at least 2011 but I don't tend to finish projects or in this case even get very far before something else takes over.
I hope he is satisfied with the result.

I did find some rather silly things with these A-20 but am not sure if you want my recommendations because they may sound very nice. There don't seem to be as many issues as there were with the Tigercat though.

- Ivan.

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,


Happy New Year.
I was wondering if you actually wanted to know about the issues that I found in your projects. Most people are too cautious or polite to point out issues they find but as you already know, I am not so polite. I am just not sure if you want critiques or advice from me because in the past it has not always gone well. I know that if it were issues with one of my own projects, I would rather know about them.

Take Care.
- Ivan.