Seaplanes-Catapults-Battleships and Cruisers

[Butcherbird17]

Butch,

When you export the mdl make sure it is set to P3Dv4.4 object. No need to set it as FSX as your not using FSX. That is why you are getting the error message.
You don't have the FSXA SDK installed. (or do you?)
Another thing that you can do in MCX is click on the Wireframe Render Mode and the paper clip and you will be able to see all attached objects on the model. (if any)
Then be able to see where the attach point is then move it if needed.

tgycgijoes,

You do know that you can add the default cat (FSX,P3D) to any ship with a platform on it. Just use the Attached Object Editor, click on ADD, then Empty and fill in the blanks.
Use these names for each cat.

attachpt_catapult_start_1
attachpt_catapult_end_1

Now if you are going to have 2 separate cats you would change the 1 to a 2. There is no need to use the RCBCO gauge if you add the cats in MCX.

Joe

[tgycgijoes]

I have the best success the way I am doing it. That is "FOR ME". I know that what you posted is a corrrect way to do it too. Rob's RCBCO is fail-safe. FSX doesn't like all aircraft for cat shots or arrested landings I found in a lot of different aircraft especially FS2004 ones that have been port-overs not native. I even have a different post about that with pre_WWII aircraft on the Langley or the old Sara and Lex last year.

[gray eagle]

Hey gray eagle,

I can see in your values that unless its a huge coincidence you have entered the values of the Alabama that I posted for your Baltimore and they can't be the same. I am in the middle of merging and animating a prop in MDCx which I have never done before like you with this. Since I need to post to someone at FSDevelopers and wait for a reply back, I will see about putting the platform on the port catapult of the USS Baltimore and see what the values should be. I will send it to you and you can make the starboard one with those values. I hope it works from FSX to P3D V4.5. I think that if you can install the unconverted one you could use this but we'll see. I know how frustrating it can be believe me. Back to you in a bit.

I did use those values. I thought that they didn't make any difference. That's why when things didn't work, I would let you know what ship I was using to emulate your work.

[Essex]

Richard and Cees, to the best of my knowledge ModelConverterX is unable to add animations to a model and this seems to be what is needed to get back aboard. (An animated elevator of sorts) This would need to be done in GMax/Max/Blender and the merged with the model in MCX.

Lets say you have a simple animated elevator MDL. What you could do is export this as a .X file in MCX. This would also generate a .xanim file. This .xanim file would be simple to edit with a text editor, adjust as required.
The difficult part is adding rotation as well, I'm sure it must be possible, but that's as much as I can say.
Once edited satisfactorily export as a MDL and merge with the ship MDL.

[gray eagle]

Richard,

I think we are getting closer to having hard points over the cat(s)
I tried your values you emailed me - She sits a bit high over the cat. Need new value(s) to make it fit flush on the cat.
I slewed it above the port cat and in steps let it down and heard a clank (get we had contact with the deck) its
a bit high over the cat.

Edit: Thing I noticed, when the plane is in proximity of the cat, the wheels are down. can't get them to raise. In slew mode the plane will auto launch, wheels up.

[tgycgijoes]

This might be a P3D thing??? I don't know. Did you try to just raise the gear? In my MDCx, the red platform is actually right on top of the catapult so just slightly lower the value until you get it where you want it. That is what you have to do to get it perfect.

[tgycgijoes]

Well, I just spent the whole afternoon trying to merge a prop with another seaplane but just when I thought I had it all figured it.......well, it will be another project maybe next week...maybe the week after because I don't feel like getting frustrated, its been too good a week. LOL! CCP tutorial maybe added tomorrow. Tonight is movie night. Bye, ya'll.

R

[gray eagle]

This might be a P3D thing??? I don't know. Did you try to just raise the gear? In my MDCx, the red platform is actually right on top of the catapult so just slightly lower the value until you get it where you want it. That is what you have to do to get it perfect.

So in MDCx, how do I locate that port cat so I can lower it a bit? Right now, I can call up the Baltimore mdl and that port cat is in red. If I click on the object editor, I can add a platform,
which I don't want to do, I wanted to find the port cat and try to tweak it, if possible.

[gray eagle]

This might be a P3D thing??? I don't know. Did you try to just raise the gear? In my MDCx, the red platform is actually right on top of the catapult so just slightly lower the value until you get it where you want it. That is what you have to do to get it perfect.

Of the three value, which one would need to be lowered?


Position: (-6.00;-80.00;9.50)

[tgycgijoes]

the three values are as follows:

The -6.00 is the distance the catapult is from the centerline of the ship. The second value the -80.00 is the distance aft of the center point of the ship and the last value 9.50 is the height above the deck of the attach point of the catapult. If before you enter the length and the width you will see a yellow square with three axis lines coming out of it x-y-z. That is the actual attach point of the object. To get your Kingfisher to sit on the cradle on the catapult you will need to lower the 9.50 value 0.25 at a time ie: 9.25 and see where that puts it. IF that is TOO LOW, then enter 9.30 etc. You will find though that all your values are now gone and you will have to remove the platform and start over. That is why above I said to make a written record of your values for every ship you attach a catapult to. Don't get frustrated but make it fun. When you are done you will have a good looking model. I don't know what you will have to use for the catapult launch in P3DV4.5

[gray eagle]

the three values are as follows:

The -6.00 is the distance the catapult is from the centerline of the ship. The second value the -80.00 is the distance aft of the center point of the ship and the last value 9.50 is the height above the deck of the attach point of the catapult. If before you enter the length and the width you will see a yellow square with three axis lines coming out of it x-y-z. That is the actual attach point of the object. To get your Kingfisher to sit on the cradle on the catapult you will need to lower the 9.50 value 0.25 at a time ie: 9.25 and see where that puts it. IF that is TOO LOW, then enter 9.30 etc. You will find though that all your values are now gone and you will have to remove the platform and start over. That is why above I said to make a written record of your values for every ship you attach a catapult to. Don't get frustrated but make it fun. When you are done you will have a good looking model. I don't know what you will have to use for the catapult launch in P3DV4.5

Thank you very much for the info. I thought you'd hung it up for the day (weekend) anyway, you sent me the coordinates for the B'more (email) so I can refer to that.
In the meantime, I had mosied over to the MDCX forum and was seeking if it possible to edit the platform that I had just created and now I found out (from you) that
I'd have to redo it from scratch.

If I may ask, how did you come up with the figures to use for the catapult platforms. It's all interesting and intriguing stuff.

Thanks

Butch

[gray eagle]

Managed to dial in the right numbers to make the kingfisher sit on the catapult.

Only thing is, when I used the slew keys to position it on the cat, and turn off the slew, it will actually launch from the cat.

And all the while I am in slew mode, the wheels are up but with slew off, wheels are down.

So for now, I will just play with the port cat and try some launches.

That third value (9.50) I changed to 9.00 -

I wonder if the other Navy seaplane can be slewed on the cat with the wheels up?
I think the Curtis Seagull is in FSX, doubt if P3d but I may look/try that one as well.

[tgycgijoes]

Interestingly, the Kingfisher is not an amphibian so you cannot retract the "landing gear". That is not landing gear but in fact Tim's version of the dolly that the seaplane rests on when on deck or on land. I wish I knew how he modeled it to not be there all the time. There is in fact a wheeled version of the Kingfisher available. The Kingfisher AND the Seagull both were able on land to remove the floats and install landing gear interchangeably by the plane crew. I have the same problem with the model I made by merging my scratch-built seaplane dolly from photos in Sketchup and then created an mdl. Here is a photo of the dolly.



My problem was and I learned the hard way from the FSDeveloper experts that I did SUCH A GOOD JOB that there were so many polygons that this bogged down FSX so that I couldn't use it and then when it was attached I couldn't create any way to make it "disappear" once the seaplane was in the water so it flew with the dolly and looked stupid. GM and Ford have made expensive boo boo's too right? LOL!!!

[edakridge]

FSX doesn't like all aircraft for cat shots or arrested landings I found in a lot of different aircraft especially FS2004 ones that have been port-overs not native.

This is because MOST FS2004 ported over aircraft don't have the "Takeoff Assist" section in their aircraft.CFG. Another requirement for using FSX/P3D catapults is that the aircraft must have contact points for wheels as well as floats in the aircraft.cfg. The wheels do not have to be modeled, but the config entries must be there.This is the reason that you see the wheels down in the screenshot the Greyeagle posted. It is not a difference in FSX or P3D, but a requirement for the catapult.

Lets say you have a simple animated elevator MDL. What you could do is export this as a .X file in MCX. This would also generate a .xanim file. This .xanim file would be simple to edit with a text editor, adjust as required.
The difficult part is adding rotation as well, I'm sure it must be possible, but that's as much as I can say.
Once edited satisfactorily export as a MDL and merge with the ship MDL.

This is exactly the solution that I was thinking of. Create an animated hardened elevator using transparent materials/textures and then merge it with the model. IF the aircraft is placed close enough to the catapult at close to the right angle it will lock in once you hit "shift+I". I will leave the actual creation to some one else as I am tied up with other matters right now.

Only thing is, when I used the slew keys to position it on the cat, and turn off the slew, it will actually launch from the cat.

This is probably because your catapult section is narrower than your "wheels" contact points. When I set up my test, I used a square hardened area big enough to cover both catapults. You are not catapulting, you are coming off "Slew" in mid air. To have an actual catapult, you must add both catapult start and end attach points to the model. https://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/ind...rations_(FSXA) What you are overlooking is that the sim could care less what the catapults look like on the model. It is only interested in the math. The actual dimensions of your hardened area and your contact points.

I hope this helps clarify things rather than further muddying the water.

[gray eagle]

Found an old issue of the Curtiss Seagull. This one has no options for a up/down dolly-landing gear but sits well albeit a little low on the short catapult.

[tgycgijoes]

Found an old issue of the Curtiss Seagull. This one has no options for a up/down dolly-landing gear but sits well albeit a little low on the short catapult.

That looks great. If you want it to sit a bit higher and you are only going to use the Seagull then raise the platform in MDCX just a wee bit. If you are going to use the Kingfisher too, then just leave it. Can you launch it?

[tgycgijoes]

Ed has helped me understand a lot of FSX and flight sim programming in general and we are good friends. I appreciate his input here it's always on the mark.

[gray eagle]

That looks great. If you want it to sit a bit higher and you are only going to use the Seagull then raise the platform in MDCX just a wee bit. If you are going to use the Kingfisher too, then just leave it. Can you launch it?

No, on startup it just sits there. The Kingfisher seems anxious to launch when I use the slew key. I guess the dolly wheels were "baked" in by Tim when he developed the Kingfisher.

I may just stick with Tim's OS2U.

Edit: I wish that MDCX had the ability to keep the platform settings and one could just edit what entries were there. What would really be a + is to actually see the red platform

as you are making entry edits. That would eliminate the current procedure when making adjustments, but then, I'd still have to test it in the sim.

[edakridge]

No, on startup it just sits there. The Kingfisher seems anxious to launch when I use the slew key. I guess the dolly wheels were "baked" in by Tim when he developed the Kingfisher.

I may just stick with Tim's OS2U.

No, it's because you MUST add the "Launch Assistance" section to the aircraft.cfg for catapults to work.

[launch_assistance]
launch_bar_pivot = 6.74, 0.0, -1.68
launch_bar_lug = 7.95, 0.0, -2.05

Also, to catapult an aircraft MUST have wheels added in the contact point section of the aircraft.cfg. The sim could care less if they are present on the model.

[gray eagle]

No, it's because you MUST add the "Launch Assistance" section to the aircraft.cfg for catapults to work.

[launch_assistance]
launch_bar_pivot = 6.74, 0.0, -1.68
launch_bar_lug = 7.95, 0.0, -2.05

Also, to catapult an aircraft MUST have wheels added in the contact point section of the aircraft.cfg. The sim could care less if they are present on the model.

I don't need this in the O2SU - In P3D V4.5 when I slew the plane to position it on the catapult and it makes contact with the cat, I turn off the slew key and the thing will just

fling itself off the cat (just like a carrier launch) Wish I had a video of it.


I did add the launch assistance parameters to the OS2U aircraft.cfg thinking that I would have to enable the launch keys used for a aircraft carrier launch. No cat armed message

like I normally see on a cat shot from a carrier. So I just released the "Y" slew key and off it went.......

[tgycgijoes]

No, it's because you MUST add the "Launch Assistance" section to the aircraft.cfg for catapults to work.

[launch_assistance]
launch_bar_pivot = 6.74, 0.0, -1.68
launch_bar_lug = 7.95, 0.0, -2.05

Also, to catapult an aircraft MUST have wheels added in the contact point section of the aircraft.cfg. The sim could care less if they are present on the model.

When we spoke this will also allow the seaplane to be "pushed back" on the seaplane ramp and NOT have to be slewed. The sim will not push a seaplane without contact points for wheels. A nice perk. I didn't realize this when I started the post about NAS Kaneohe or this applies to any other seaplane ramp for that matter.

[tgycgijoes]

Here is the information "right from the horse's mouth" the Simulators Software Design Kits (SDKs)

Configuring FSX Acceleration

To enable the Catapult/Arrestor operations functionality, two seperate key aspects must be configured/functioning -

• Aircraft - The launch-bar, (for the catapult), and tailhook, (for the arrestor-cables), located on the aircraft.
• Vessel - The runway, catapult, and arrestor-cables, for the carrier you'll takeoff from, and recover to.

Prerequisite

The FSX Acceleration key-mapping must also be functioning correctly.


Configuring (FSXA)

fsx.CFG

In the [Realism] section.
Add/edit to enable -

• CatapultForceLimiter=1 - Only fighter type aircraft can be catapulted.
• CatapultForceLimiter=0 - Enables the catapult systems to generate the required force for any type of aircraft.

TODO - Find/add info how FSX discriminates between fighter and non-fighter aircraft.
Configuring (Aircraft)

Catapult Assist (Aircraft)

To launch an aircraft, a launch bar is lowered to engage the catapult system.
Add a launch bar to an aircraft, by either -

• defining a [launch_assistance] entry in the aircraft configuration file.
• setting the attachpt_Launch_Bar_Pivot and attachpt_Launch_Bar_Lug attach points in the model,

An entry in the configuration file will override the model's attach points, if they exist.


aircraft.cfg - launch-bar

Works for any aircraft.
Add a section titled [launch_assistance]
with the following parameters and values -
launch_bar_pivot = Launch bar pivot point, relative to datum reference point.
launch_bar_lug = Launch bar lug point, relative to datum reference point.
Example - Boeing F/A-18
[launch_assistance]
launch_bar_pivot = 5.0, 0.0, -1.0
launch_bar_lug = 5.0, 0.0, -4.5Model - launch-bar
Requires the model's source code.
TODO - Add/edit/split instructions for implementation.



This document provides notes on the aircraft supplied with Prepar3D and guidelines on how to implement some of the more complex systems, requiring the use of attach points, event IDs, simulation variables and aircraft configuration file settings.



Catapult Assisted Takeoff P3D
To add a launch bar to an aircraft, either set the attachpt_Launch_Bar_Pivot and attachpt_Launch_Bar_Lug attach points in the model, or define a [launch_assistance] entry in the aircraft configuration file. An entry in the configuration file will override the attach points, if they exist.

1. Use one of the KEY_TOGGLE_LAUNCH_BAR_SWITCH or KEY_SET_LAUNCHBAR_SWITCH key events to drop the launch bar from the nose of the aircraft. This is an animated feature of the F-18, and the launch bar should be visible.
2. The aircraft should be moved into position on the catapult, and then one of the KEY_TAKEOFF_ASSIST_ARM_SET or KEY_TAKEOFF_ASSIST_ARM_TOGGLE key events should be used to attach the launch bar to the bogie of the catapult (which is not animated). If the aircraft is not in the correct location, the connection will not be made. If all goes well, the connection will be made, and the blast shield will be raised.
3. The KEY_TAKEOFF_ASSIST_FIRE event key is used to fire the catapult. The user cannot control the position of the aircraft until the aircraft clears the deck.
4. If for any reason the assist arm is unset, again using the KEY_TAKEOFF_ASSIST_ARM_SET or KEY_TAKEOFF_ASSIST_ARM_TOGGLE key events, then the blast shield will also be retracted. The aircraft can then be moved away from the catapult.

I found it interesting that the F/A 18 default aircraft in my FSX Acceleration does NOT have this information in the aircraft.cfg

I understand why neither the Kingfisher or the Seagull aircraft.cfg doesn't and needs to be added because they have never been changed since they were developed "back when" by Tim Conrad or Paul Clawson. They were seaplanes that took off from and landed on the water.

SO...this will allow any aircraft you configure properly in the aircraft.cfg in either sim FSX or P3D to be launched from a catapult that you have placed it on by whatever method. You then do NOT need RCBCO to accomplish this.

Use a text editor like Notepad or Notepad++ to edit the aircraft.cfg but if you use Notepad be SURE to save it as aircraft.cfg or you will get a text file and your aircraft WILL NOT WORK.

There is the food for thought for the weekend.

[gray eagle]

This document provides notes on the aircraft supplied with Prepar3D and guidelines on how to implement some of the more complex systems, requiring the use of attach points, event IDs, simulation variables and aircraft configuration file settings.



Catapult Assisted Takeoff P3D
To add a launch bar to an aircraft, either set the attachpt_Launch_Bar_Pivot and attachpt_Launch_Bar_Lug attach points in the model, or define a [launch_assistance] entry in the aircraft configuration file. An entry in the configuration file will override the attach points, if they exist.

1. Use one of the KEY_TOGGLE_LAUNCH_BAR_SWITCH or KEY_SET_LAUNCHBAR_SWITCH key events to drop the launch bar from the nose of the aircraft. This is an animated feature of the F-18, and the launch bar should be visible.
2. The aircraft should be moved into position on the catapult, and then one of the KEY_TAKEOFF_ASSIST_ARM_SET or KEY_TAKEOFF_ASSIST_ARM_TOGGLE key events should be used to attach the launch bar to the bogie of the catapult (which is not animated). If the aircraft is not in the correct location, the connection will not be made. If all goes well, the connection will be made, and the blast shield will be raised.
3. The KEY_TAKEOFF_ASSIST_FIRE event key is used to fire the catapult. The user cannot control the position of the aircraft until the aircraft clears the deck.
4. If for any reason the assist arm is unset, again using the KEY_TAKEOFF_ASSIST_ARM_SET or KEY_TAKEOFF_ASSIST_ARM_TOGGLE key events, then the blast shield will also be retracted. The aircraft can then be moved away from the catapult.

I assume item #1 concerns the key commands in P3D V4

Takeoff assist (arm/disarm) Shift + I

Launch bar (extend/retract) Shift + U

The seaplane (for me) has to be slewed to the cat. Having done so, the take off/launch bar commands do not work - I tried that before.

When I use those commands after I have rolled the nose wheel over a carrier cat shuttle, the bridles show and I can launch.

Now I realized in the seaplane situation, (P3d) this isn't going to happen, or is it?

[tgycgijoes]

Try to redo your hard platform like Ed has done making it 30 wide instead of 3 and 60 long instead of 20 and see if covering the whole aft end of the ship makes a difference. Otherwise, I would go and post in the P3D forum and ask THEM why it doesn't work when you followed the P3D SDK exactly. I don't know what else to tell you. Let someone here (besides Ed) who uses P3D V4.5 advise you if they can make it work with the launch entries. If you make your stern a "flight deck" platform it might make a difference, I don't know. Is that true for either the Kingfisher OR the Seagull?

[tgycgijoes]

Spending the day in Carrier Convoy Planner creating the launch position aboard the pre-war USS Arizona BB-39 downloaded from Klaus's battleships which I already configured for a hard platform and this morning attached the catapult start and catapult end attach points in MDCx 1.30.

To assign a start position in CCP you can start with your catapult values from MDCx but for whatever reason they are not exactly that spot but very close. It then becomes a matter of starting a log with your first PA.cfg value in CCP for Pos1 which is in essence a location on a carrier flight deck. CCP comes configured for a number of ships including Javier's Nimitz which for whatever reason is the ONLY one that shows where positions are on the flight deck. I am sure its something that was incorporated when the model was designed. Every other ship I have created values in PA.cfg has been trial and error checking it in the sim each time until it is exactly where I want it to be. I don't intend to show HOW to use CCP here. Watching the online videos does a much better job of that than I could do in an SOH post with 100 screenshots.

Google: Carrier Convoy Planner Tutorials and watch. Some are over an hour long but very well done especially BLUE ZONE. The program comes with a manual in English and French and a Starting guide in the two languages as well. They are well written and illustrated but the tutorial videos I think are much more helpful and detailed since the manuals are only 20 pp long. Tomorrow I will show you how to create the starting positions in CCP. To learn how to USE CCP watch the videos. Here is the download link to the stable version of CCP graciously provided by Motus because any other links are no longer working:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sPq...eHcM_Qcxs/view

I would suggest not to install this OVER a version you have but install as a new version in another location. Then you can incorporate any custom data you have into the new stable version.

Now, back to my USS Arizona...