At my wits end.

[_486_Col_Wolf]

So I was playing around with one of my A/C models, swapping it for another one to see how it looked and handled everything else, AIR CFG ect was left the same. I didn't like it so I just swapped it back to the original. Next thing I know ALL of my A/C are acting like the want to nose up. With all of my player A/C I know exactly the power, RPM trim settings to make them climb and fly level but now they all fly a little faster making them nose up. Any thoughts?

[Devildog73]

So I was playing around with one of my A/C models, swapping it for another one to see how it looked and handled everything else, AIR CFG ect was left the same. I didn't like it so I just swapped it back to the original. Next thing I know ALL of my A/C are acting like the want to nose up. With all of my player A/C I know exactly the power, RPM trim settings to make them climb and fly level but now they all fly a little faster making them nose up. Any thoughts?

Did you make adjustments to your aircraft AIR files?

[_486_Col_Wolf]

No, DD. In my A/C folder I have two Hurricane MK Ia's. One is my "Player A/C" and the other is used only as an optional AI for missions. The AI has a little better looking model/texture so I swapped it into my player Hurricane. However, the player Hurricane combined with the new model didn't fly correctly with the existing CFG, AIR and DP files in the player Hurricane folder so I just swapped them back. After that all my flyable A/C fly slightly faster causing them to nose up even with known trim, power and RPM settings on cruise/level flight. For example:

My player Hurricane, flies straight and level at these settings:
50% Throttle (Speed about 160 Knots)
2700 RPM
Mixture Lean
Elevator Trim set to -0.54

Now, at the same settings it flies at 178 Knots and noses up until it almost stalls. All my other A/C are doing similar things at their respective cruise/level flight settings, flying faster than normal and nosing up.

Is there a default AIR or CGG file that all A/C use if theirs are corrupt? I know there is a default DP file for this.

[Devildog73]

No, DD. In my A/C folder I have two Hurricane MK Ia's. One is my "Player A/C" and the other is used only as an optional AI for missions. The AI has a little better looking model/texture so I swapped it into my player Hurricane. However, the player Hurricane combined with the new model didn't fly correctly with the existing CFG, AIR and DP files in the player Hurricane folder so I just swapped them back. After that all my flyable A/C fly slightly faster causing them to nose up even with known trim, power and RPM settings on cruise/level flight. For example:

My player Hurricane, flies straight and level at these settings:
50% Throttle (Speed about 160 Knots)
2700 RPM
Mixture Lean
Elevator Trim set to -0.54

Now, at the same settings it flies at 178 Knots and noses up until it almost stalls. All my other A/C are doing similar things at their respective cruise/level flight settings, flying faster than normal and nosing up.

Is there a default AIR or CGG file that all A/C use if theirs are corrupt? I know there is a default DP file for this.

Did you delete your aircraft CDPs when you changed back?
If not the aircraft reverts to what is saved in the CDP file.
When you make any changes in your aircraft folder you must delete the CDP file and let the sim rebuild it from the new values.


It sounds to me that your center of gravity has moved to the rear of your aircraft a bit, or your elevator angle is set at the wrong angle up.
Both are controlled in the AIR file with Airedit.

I would suggest you replace your aircraft.cfg, dp, and AIR file with the originals from a default AH_Hurricane_Mk1 & AI model respectively.

[_486_Col_Wolf]

DD,
I did clear the CDP files after making changes. The AIR and CFG files were never changed. I did replace them from my backup files regardless. However, the problem still remains. Also, the problem is not so much the CoG moving to the rear but the higher speed the A/C now have causing them to nose up. Also, this doesn't account for all of my flyable A/C suddenly showing the same symptoms.

I have another CFS2 Install. I will try adding the Hurricane to that to see if the problem is still there. If it is, that means the problem is in the individual A/C files. If it is not it means the problem is in the whole install and that would also account for it affecting all of my flyable A/C.

[Devildog73]

Hmmm,
What are the values in your aircraft.cfg for these:

(DEFAULT)
[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar = 1.0
parasite_drag_scalar = 1.0
induced_drag_scalar = 1.0
elevator_effectiveness = 1.0
aileron_effectiveness = 1.0
rudder_effectiveness = 1.0
pitch_stability = 1.0
roll_stability = 1.0
yaw_stability = 1.0
elevator_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
aileron_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
rudder_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
rudder_limit=28.997394 ; degrees
aileron_limit=25.5 ; degrees
elevator_limit=20.5 ; degrees
flap_limit=90.0 ; degrees

[piston_engine]
power_scalar = 1.0

[propeller]
thrust_scalar = 1.0

[Sarg Willy]

Open your situation file,s look for defair.flt , check it against your back up file , will open with note pad , see if different from you back up file ,, could have went corrupt , pull and hold , replace with back up and retest , I,m assuming your testing in free flight , It,s the only thing I can think of that would effect all aircraft ---

[_486_Col_Wolf]

DD, My CFG files do show the default values. But I did try the A/C in another install of CFS2 and they worked as they should. This means it5's the install and not the A/C themselves which would account for all of them operating incorrectly. After reading Sarge's post, I thought it might be the Situatio folder and replaced the file from the bad install with the Situatio file from the good install but it still has the problem. So, it must be something in the install but not the situatio file.

[Devildog73]

Totally DELETE your MODULES folder and EMPTY Recycle Bin.
Then take a pristine MODULES folder and copy and paste the folder into your install that is not properly flying.

If it is the install itself, I suspect one of the DLLs in MODULES is corrupt.

I would also delete the entire offending Hurricane's folders and place brand new ones in and see if that takes care of it.

[_486_Col_Wolf]

Tried clean Modules, no change. I don't believe it's the Hurricane folder as it works in another install.

[Devildog73]

Tried clean Modules, no change. I don't believe it's the Hurricane folder as it works in another install.

Then I'm stumped.
Uninstall that instance of CFS2 and reinstall.
When you cannot find the nut cracker, you sometimes have to just go get the elephant to step on the nut.

[_486_Col_Wolf]

OK, here's where it gets real weird. The planes still fly wrong in Free Flight but in missions they fly as they should.

[Sarg Willy]

One other thought , Look in Pilots , for program generated temp flight.wx file , previous flight.FLT file , pull them out and see, if the game regenerates them , for corrections ,

[Allen]

Any weather effects in FF????

[Sarg Willy]

Allen you beat me to the post , chuckle ,

Sometimes it,s the little things that get you , Check your free flight window and make sure , no wind gusts were added by Gremlin,s ,
mission,s use their own set up , for weather ,,

[_486_Col_Wolf]

Sarge, Deleted all files in the PilotLog Folder except the Pilot folder contained in it. I also deleted the files in the Pilot folder. Same results. Free Flight the A/C flies faster and noses up at known settings (power, trim ect) and in Single Mission it flew fine.

Allen, Checked Free Flight Weather, No wind and no wind gusts applied.

Also tried deleting and reinstalling affected A/C after deleting PilotLog and had the same results.

Should Situatio Folder also be emptied and left to regenerate?

[bearcat241]

Ok Wolf, let's go all the way back to the beginning:

(1) Move everything in the AIRCRAFT folder to a temp hangar location.

(2) Put only the original non-flyable stockers, i.e, B-24, B-25, Val, Kate, Betty, Oscar, Avenger, Dauntless and Devastator, back into the A/C folder.

(3) Reboot the sim and click through any 'missing aircraft' error messages for the flyable stockers.

(4) Shut it down and restore any single flyable stocker to the folder. Reboot, click through any errors and go to FF to fly that one.

(5) If it flies normal, shut down, pull all the originals out of the A/C folder again and restore the ETO stuff without the pesky Hurricane models. Reboot and test something.

(6) If normal, shut down and go to the original Hurricane downloads and reinstall from scratch.

[_486_Col_Wolf]

BC, All the originals were still in there but I removed everything but them, rebooted, shut down. Then added a Spit and tested it. Same results. In Free Flight the A/C flies slightly faster (3-4 Kts) and noses up. If I throttle back 3% from my normal cruise settings I get the normal level flight. If flown in a mission it flies normally. I also tested it in Quick Combat without enemies and it also flies normally. It seems something is affecting Free Flight only

[Allen]

Check FF fuel and gun load?

[Sarg Willy]

How many files do you have in Situatio folder ,,remove all except 2,, defair and defgnd , retest again ,
I think ??? at a guess ,, that free flight uses information from these add on files , and one of the listing,s
contained is trim neutral position elevator radious input , ---- so it can alter trim neutral point ,
Lets say normal point is 50% -- which is read from the air file for missions and Campaigns
, Free Flight reads the situatio folder looking for spitfire flt files , --- which may have a value of 48% neutral
point ,, it changes the trim value ,, and that change can alter speed , and climb point , attitude ,
Even if your using a calibrated , matching input controls , and noting that from the 1% gauge read out ,,
Its a match to the situation your describing --

You could try emptying the folder , which should force Free Flight , to by pass the flt files , and see if
it reverts back to the air file --- an unknown , at least I,ve never had to resort to that experiment ,

Last thing , to try , is flight modeling , easy , medium , hard , to see if you can match QC testing ,,

[Sarg Willy]

Should Situatio Folder also be emptied and left to regenerate?----

Been a while since , I,ve used a stock install , But the hurricane and spitfire flt files probably came from CFS-1
game , and are lets face it really old , The only other source that I can remember , was Bill Potvan,s flt files , that
he produced , from one of his downloads , I don,t think Cfs-2 will regenerate those files , But you could empty the situatio
folder ,fly a spitfire , and move from pilots folder , rename it to spit ----flt .file and drop it into the situatio
file , Probably how Bill made the old ones ,
I seem to remember Mav posting you could remove the flt files , as unnessary ,
Although I,ve kept mine , using the sage advice , don,t muck with something that work,s ,

[_486_Col_Wolf]

Allen...give that man a cee-gar! It was the weather. Although I had setting on "no wind", I looked deeper into the advanced and found that somehow the temperature was set a 0 degreees at ground level. I adjusted it to the same as one of my missions where the planes flew correctly and everything is back to normal. Guys, thanks for all your help and patience trying to figure this out!

[Sarg Willy]

Cool, a temp variance , now I would have never suspected , the association was a factor , well done Allen and Wolf ,
a book marker for sure , thanks for posting the fix ,,

[Allen]

So it was something in Adv Weather. Wow.

[_486_Col_Wolf]

Allen,
When you asked about weather effects the only thing I took into account was the wind. I guess the Sim's advanced weather is a little more advanced than we thought.