MSFS Preorder!

[centuryseries]

In Aerosoft Forum you can read, what the boxed version is:

https://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php...comment-989168

And you can read about "Optional online streamed content (this is an optional part of the sim)". Microsoft must explain this as soon as possible, otherwise they will not get a cent from me.

Thomas

So you only get the boxed version from Aerosoft. Well that's a shame they didn't say that before I ordered it from MS directly. Not that it matters, DCS has been Gb of data downloads for many years now, but it would've been nice to have the option - I see with books etc. You'd think for the price of the premium deluxe (or whatever they call it) version they'd send you some DVDs.

Does anyone know if there is any backwards compatibility at all? I've been politely asking to join the test program having been part of Beta for FSX previously and having been developing since 2001, but after 3 emails unanswered I gave up. I had a nice reply from Asobo within a day or two, but they just directed me to email Microsoft. Shame there was absolutely no response. I guess they only want the big players in the Dev world - that's who will make them some money by royalty or whatever the pricing model will be for additional content.

[CG_1976]

appreciate the link to simmarket TuFun. There one of my favorite FS Vendors with Justflight. That makes very happy more confident about FS2020.

[Sundog]

So you only get the boxed version from Aerosoft. Well that's a shame they didn't say that before I ordered it from MS directly. Not that it matters, DCS has been Gb of data downloads for many years now, but it would've been nice to have the option - I see with books etc. You'd think for the price of the premium deluxe (or whatever they call it) version they'd send you some DVDs.

Does anyone know if there is any backwards compatibility at all? I've been politely asking to join the test program having been part of Beta for FSX previously and having been developing since 2001, but after 3 emails unanswered I gave up. I had a nice reply from Asobo within a day or two, but they just directed me to email Microsoft. Shame there was absolutely no response. I guess they only want the big players in the Dev world - that's who will make them some money by royalty or whatever the pricing model will be for additional content.

Although I signed up for the Alpha, I'm not in it. Having said that, I think in one of the preview videos with the developers that was released, I'm quite sure they said legacy aircraft will work in the sim with their original flight models. I would like to see if it's possible to update some of them to the new flight model, myself. Also, I'm not sure what they're calling "Legacy," but I would think that would be at least anything released for FSX and early P3D (Not sure how PBR work will translate between the two platforms).

Regards,
Ken

[Sundog]

My original point being, what a waste of an alpha tester if all they were going to do was poke their head into the sim once a month to see how things were shaping up based on other's inputs/work. Some of us have invested a considerable amount of time testing and have noticed continued improvements to what has been reported daily over the past several months, as the regular dev reports attest to.

I think many people don't get what an "Alpha" is. Hell, I've been in some pretty rough betas, but they turned out fine maybe a month or two after release. I think some people just think an Alpha means "Free game play before anyone else!" I don't think people like that know that it's up to them to find and report everything that's broken. Maybe they should have put Dino from IndiaFoxtAlpha in charge. He's really good at running a beta. I'm sure he could run an Alpha.

[keithb77]

I'm quite sure they said legacy aircraft will work in the sim with their original flight models.

I remember that too ... but heard nothing since.
Would be REALLY helpful in the short term...

[zswobbie1]

It was said that legacy aircraft could be ported over, however, they would be very inferior to the new aircraft.
The new planes have 1000 contact points per surface area, vs 1 on old planes.
maybe better to get planes that are made for the sim?

[Brytskiva]

1. Hi , do anybody new if there is some need of keyboard inputs in FS2020 and can you use to fly like in FSX/P3d ?

2. Will it be possible to install FS2020 on an extern USB 3.1. disc ?




HB

[Mach3DS]

I don't think your 2nd question can be answered until it's released. But, seems like if you can choose a location to install, you could choose anywhere right?

[Ferry_vO]

Strange... Alpha testers say it is far from finished, incomplete and buggy, yet Aerosoft claim the box set has gone gold and is ready for shipping..?
Does this mean box owners will have to download the mother of all day 1 patches in August, basically rendering the disks useless because they will have to download large parts of the game, or is the entire alpha test pointless..?

[Brytskiva]

I don't think your 2nd question can be answered until it's released. But, seems like if you can choose a location to install, you could choose anywhere right?

Thank you , i feel calmer now.

HB

[Mach3DS]

Strange... Alpha testers say it is far from finished, incomplete and buggy, yet Aerosoft claim the box set has gone gold and is ready for shipping..?
Does this mean box owners will have to download the mother of all day 1 patches in August, basically rendering the disks useless because they will have to download large parts of the game, or is the entire alpha test pointless..?

Best quote of my posting career here at SOH!! Hahaha you read my mind! yeah - I know there's people here that think it's ready but from my buddy who like me is a RL pilot and flies the big boys at the airlines, he thinks its buggy and that the FM's are not great. So, you're finding lots of opinions across the board.

[bazzar]

As testers we are supposed to receive the closed beta anytime now. Why then, are we going to have the final product in a month's time? None f this makes any sense.

[Daube]

That's precisely the point: you are NOT going to receive a final product at all.
You're going to receive a product that is meant to receive further updates.
Exactly like your Windows, or your iphone or android or whatever.
It doesn't really matter if the soft is not 100% ready, Aerosoft can burn the discs already. Even if some further bugs will be discovered during the Alpha/Beta in the next 4 weeks, the patches/updates to solve them are not going to be 8 double-sided blurays...

[TiAr]

I just don't want to believe that the engine of Microsoft Flight Simulator is based on ESP. This is the ancient engine of Flight, based of FSX. I always thought we'd get something new and innovative? Can somebody confirm this. Source is simflight.de in actual SDK discussion.

Thomas

[Javis]

I just don't want to believe that the engine of Microsoft Flight Simulator is based on ESP. This is the ancient engine of Flight, based of FSX. I always thought we'd get something new and innovative?

I'd watch that launch trailer again a few times if i were you, Thomas. Don't you think that looks suspiciously like something new and innovative ?..

About ESP, from Wikipedia MSFS announcement :

quote:

Flight Simulator will feature Asobo's in-house developed game engine, and leverage Bing Maps data, accessing over two petabytes of data from the cloud on demand.[3] Azure AI analyzes map data and photogrammetry to generate photorealistic 3D models of buildings, trees, terrain, and so on. This allows the simulator to depict most parts of the world in 3D photo-realism, and other parts in high definition.[4] There will also be realistic physics and weather systems, and utilization of real-world weather data.

unquote

ESP will remain as always, Extra Sensory Perception, Electro Static Precipitator, Electronic Stability Program, Eastern State Penitentiary, Encapsulating Security Payload as well as a host of other designations including the aspen poplar as it is known in the Netherlands (Esp or ratelpopulier) and of course Enterprise Simulation Platform. AFAIK none of these have anything to do with forthcoming MSFS. ( btw, didn't MS sell this whole ESP thing to LM in the first place ?...)

[Bomber_12th]

To be fair, the development team has been stating since last September that the sim will not have everything in it at launch that they plan to have in it - that has never been a secret. The way they've always described it is that they needed to get it to a stable, fully usable and very complete level, and once that would be achieved then they would put it out there to the customer/user base. Development of the sim by Asobo/Microsoft is supposed to continue for another 10 years, with continued improvements and additional content (I don't want to wait much longer to use the sim (the alpha is awesome, but I can't wait to get rid of all of the username watermarks) and financially I'd bet they can't wait much longer to release it). They've been completely transparent about their desire to support Track-IR and VR, multi-screen support, adding helicopters, adding seasons, etc., but they've never said it would have those features at launch, and stated it wouldn't as far back as last September.

In DCS, aircraft modules/addons are released after usually around 4-5 years of work, each, but still 2-3 years prior to when they would be if they were retained until they were fully finalized - that's from the mouth of the owner of Eagle Dynamics. They then get most of all of the bug reporting from the user base, and then continue fixing, improving and adding to the products progressively after release. It is a sound financial decision which allows them to continue to develop and release more content and get content out to the user base/customers 2-3 years faster than it would be if they retained everything until it was absolutely perfect.

Here, Asobo and Microsoft, over a 5 year period, have recreated the entire earth completely new, all new buildings and trees the world over, all new airports the world over (over 40,000), all new weather, new graphics engine and lighting engine, all new aircraft models and sounds, new flight dynamics programming, etc., and they are still describing a further 10 years committed to development of the sim. A big chunk of the reason for the Tech Alpha over the last several months (in addition to of course taking the opportunity to report all bugs and any missteps) was for the developers to test the online features of the sim with gradually more and more higher numbers of users accessing the servers, month after month, ahead of release. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it will be interesting to see what the beta build is like compared to what the tech alpha builds have been - everything is simply speculation at this point. The beta will be available on July 30th, just 18 days prior to release, so from the mindset of the developers there can't be much they're looking at needing to worry about checking/testing any more prior to the release.

[Ferry_vO]

The difference is that DCS is a free game, and MSFS2020 will cost $80-$120 (Depending on which version.) which I think is a lot for what amounts to an early access game/glorified alpha build.

And as for the box set: I think that will interest people with poor internet quality or limited data bundles, but they would still have to download major patches, probably from the first day of release..

I know I will be reading a lot of reviews first, before buying anything.

[Bomber_12th]

I'm referring of course to the way in which every DCS $40-$80 module for an individual aircraft or individual (flat) terrain map are released, each taking 4-5 years to develop and which typically stay in "early access" (beta) for years after initial release, even at full price. Here you're talking about a full sim, from the ground-up, for $80-$120, and with all of the features that are almost too long to want to list - 30 accurate and detailed aircraft inside and out (many of them tested by the companies that produce them I believe), 40 hand-crafted payware quality airports, over 40,000 newly crafted airports in all (which puts to shame FSX/P3D default airports), photo scenery the world over with billions of buildings and trillions of trees placed, colored and sized to match the world-over, new flight modeling, completely new graphics and lighting engines, completely new sound dynamics, new friction modeling, an incredible weather simulation unlike any other sim, and it goes on... No one knows anything about exactly how the release version of the sim is going to be, including the tech alpha testers, other than in the previews that Microsoft has shared, but I pre-ordered it based on my experience with the tech alpha. To think of all of the money required for payware addons to make FSX and P3D good sims, on top of the original cost of those, and yet they still don't compare with MSFS2020.

[Mach3DS]

***IF*** the MS stock aircraft are modeled in any way similar to DCS then, it will be a steal of a deal! DCS aircraft are high fidelity. They're not 100% but that's mostly in the systems department where certain features are classified etc. So if these FS2020 aircraft (albeit they're GA) work on a counterpart level of the same kind of fidelity in DCS, then we're getting somewhere. Most DCS aircraft are like VRS superbug in terms of functionality. If these models are of the same LOD, then we're talking apples to apples.

[TuFun]

Here you're talking about a full sim, from the ground-up, for $80-$120, and with all of the features that are almost too long to want to list - 30 accurate and detailed aircraft inside and out (many of them tested by the companies that produce them I believe), 40 hand-crafted payware quality airports, over 40,000 newly crafted airports in all (which puts to shame FSX/P3D default airports), photo scenery the world over with billions of buildings and trillions of trees placed, colored and sized to match the world-over, new flight modeling, completely new graphics and lighting engines, completely new sound dynamics, new friction modeling, an incredible weather simulation unlike any other sim, and it goes on.

To think of all of the money required for payware addons to make FSX and P3D good sims, on top of the original cost of those, and yet they still don't compare with MSFS2020.

Preach it, brother! No other sim is like this one.

[StormILM]

I heave heard differing statements about the stock aircraft realism but I took particular note of the A320 NEO. One of my friends flies the NEO with a US carrier and he noted from the videos and what he read about it that it looks very promising. I can't help but wonder how many existing/prior developers may have had a hand in working on these aircraft models for the main developer. They look far more advanced than anything I have seen before in a stock sim. We will certainly know in a little over a month.

[Bomber_12th]

***IF*** the MS stock aircraft are modeled in any way similar to DCS then, it will be a steal of a deal! DCS aircraft are high fidelity. They're not 100% but that's mostly in the systems department where certain features are classified etc. So if these FS2020 aircraft (albeit they're GA) work on a counterpart level of the same kind of fidelity in DCS, then we're getting somewhere. Most DCS aircraft are like VRS superbug in terms of functionality. If these models are of the same LOD, then we're talking apples to apples.

I simply was trying to compare that the way in which MSFS2020 is being released is much the same as in the way DCS releases their products, as open beta that will continue to be worked on over time. The DCS owner says that's the only way they can do it and I'm sure Asobo/Mircosoft are in the same boat. I'm not comparing MSFS2020 to each individual DCS aircraft module, but the methodology/thinking behind releasing the sim as a continually developing open beta is the same as that of the methodology/thinking that DCS has in releasing their aircraft products as continually developing/improving open betas. Comparing a $120 full sim to a $80 aircraft module/addon on a price point is a completely different matter - both taking the same time to develop, but with strikingly far different numbers of developers and expected sales.

[Mach3DS]

My last few posts I simply was trying to compare that the way in which MSFS2020 is being released is probably much the same as in the way DCS releases their products, always as open betas. The DCS owner says that's the only way they can do it and I'm sure Asobo/Mircosoft are in the same boat.

Understood all, and agreed. I think the sheer volume and detail of the sim are staggering. All I'm saying is that, given I have no experience with it (not getting into the alpha) that I have nothing to compare the aircraft flight models or systems modeling to. So, if they are anything like the comparison of DCS aircraft, then we're going to be getting some really nice modeled aircraft. That's all. I agree with your assessment of the sim world as a whole. This is nothing short of modern marvel of technical acheivement.

[IanHenry]

I was wondering which version of the new sim people are buying. My preference is the Deluxe edition as the extra aircraft and airports in the Premium are of no interest to me, however I'm slightly concerned that future addons might only work with the Premium version (like was the case with FSX & Acceleration).

It's the "steam gauge" Cessna 172 that sells the Deluxe Edition for me.

[Bomber_12th]

All of the descriptions I've read states that the Deluxe and Premium Deluxe versions are the same as the Standard version, with the only differences listed being the additional detailed airports and aircraft.

From my order page on the Microsoft Store:

"The Deluxe Edition includes everything from Microsoft Flight Simulator plus 5 additional highly accurate planes with unique flight models and 5 additional handcrafted international airports."

"The Premium Deluxe Edition includes everything from Microsoft Flight Simulator plus 5 additional highly accurate planes with unique flight models and 5 additional handcrafted international airports." (out of context, this is a bit badly worded as it is actually 5 extra airports and aircraft in addition to the 5 extra airports and aircraft from the Deluxe version included as well)



I personally couldn't pass up on the SR-22, Pipistrel Virus and Zlin Shock Ultra aircraft in the "Premium Deluxe" version, so that is why I've chosen that one, not knowing if those would ever be covered by addons with the default sim aircraft already being of the high quality they are.