Milviz Phantom F-4E (ADV) - hard to fly.... - Page 2
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Thread: Milviz Phantom F-4E (ADV) - hard to fly....

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimus View Post
    but managing to make them work, both in terms of systems use and flying brings a huge satisfaction in the end.
    So true!!!!!

    Okay, now I will start to understand the Radar and the Weapon system.

    Will be back 2023
    Best regards, Manfred.

  2. #27
    How much down trim do you guys apply for takeoff ?
    I made another try yesterday, with the F-4J. I added 2 units of down trim before trying to takeoff.
    Upon rotation, nose was a bit heavy, as I expected. This was a good thing.
    However, as soon as I reached a few feet above the runway (just out of the ground effect, I guess), the nose became very light again and went quickly up, forcing to add yet more nose-down trim.
    Takeoff attempt was done in the following configuration:
    - central fuel tank
    - 4 sparrows
    - 4 sidewinders
    - Fuel set to 3/4 with the loadout manager 2D popup
    - Full afterburners
    - half flaps
    - two units nose-down trim (two cranks on the correpsonding gauge on the left of the panel).

  3. #28
    I add 3 units before the TO run. Then I am hot on the trim button and quickly trim down more after it unsticks to try and arrest the nose up.

  4. #29
    Ok I'll give that a try, thanks a lot

  5. #30
    A very gentle push on the stick together with the trimming also helps but not much to avoid "pilot induced oscillations". My closest real life experience is trimming down the Super Cub upon flap deployment but the speeds are waaaaay different!!!

  6. #31
    Can confirm - some heavy sets of finger tipping right after take off, then some minor corrections without touching the stick until she's stable. That lasts until touch down....
    Best regards, Manfred.

  7. #32
    Charter Member 2015 delta_lima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manschy View Post
    DL, can understand those annoying things a lot!
    Same to me with the JF Tornado, just when I install any upgrades regarding any shaders, the Tonka will show up almost completely transparent and I have to shut down the P3D, delete any shaders, restart etc etc.
    Not good solution and an issue that has to be more discussed over there in the forums....
    My opinion:
    The deeper the system of a high technique aircraft addon, the higher the chance to get issues. That's caused by a highly needed sensible balance between each users system and the addon.
    Is there any chance to get a solution for your strong problem over there at MV forums?
    Thanks Manfred,

    The followup on the forums never got anywhere.

    Funny, when I transitioned from FSX to P3D4.5, I determined to have as few "extra" programs as possible - so I installed no shaders, none of my REX stuff, plus I've never bought into Orbx products - so my core install was pretty "vanilla" intentionally to create as few potential conflicts as possible. Apart of course, from AIC2 - I even held off reinstalling the SWS products as knew those prone to introducing issues.

    I found I was able to attain a measure of control with both correct calibration, correct trim, and of course, use of the SAS. But I'd randomly CTD at latest 5-6 min into the sim, often times sooner.

    The bottom line is the FSX version worked very well, but the P3D version didn't. Last night, for kicks and giggles, I went to the their site and downloaded the latest version of the F-4E - which I had bought beforehand. Antivirus off, install as admin ... etc. It CTD'ed within minutes too, whereas in FSX I could fly for hours.

    Other study sims I've bought (SWS, SSW, MV F-86, MV T-38) products have eventually proven their worth over the initial obstacles. But the P3DV4 MV F-4s just have never delivered the juice, notwithstanding literally dozens of hours spent squeezing. Like's too short for that kind of aggravation.

    For those for whom the planets aligned, I raise my glass in congratulations.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Motormouse View Post
    As a phormer Phantom Phixer this is correct



    The F-4 did not have a dedicated parking brake, you would set the emergency brake lever, then hold it in position by looping one of seat belts around it.

    Ttfn

    Pete
    I dunno, sounds like a dedicated parking brake to me

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Manschy View Post
    Can confirm - some heavy sets of finger tipping right after take off, then some minor corrections without touching the stick until she's stable. That lasts until touch down....
    I realize you said you don't necessarily want to spend hours of study to learn to fly the plane. But, consider, it could be fun. To that end, there's a ton of different flight manuals and information here at this site, including flight manuals and books on the F-4 in all its versions.

    http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/

    Probably most interesting to you would be the aircraft SAC's (Standard Aircraft Characteristics)

    Here's one for the F-4J http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com...-aircraft.html

    and for the F-4B http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com...-aircraft.html

    I didn't see a SAC for the F-4E, but the guy who runs the site is totally open to finding the documents you might ask for. He was an Engineer at Douglas Aircraft, and the F-4 is a particular favorite of his.

    hint: Many of the document links are stored at postimg.org, which apparently change their address, modify the url to postimage.org and the link will work.

    Oh, and it's best to try to download documents after the first of the month as the download limits get reset every month at some of the sites he stores documents at. It's not that you can't download documents, but, especially at one particular site, after a certain limit, you only get one download an hour. Before that, it just goes straight to download.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingsCool View Post
    I realize you said you don't necessarily want to spend hours of study to learn to fly the plane. But, consider, it could be fun. To that end, there's a ton of different flight manuals and information here at this site, including flight manuals and books on the F-4 in all its versions.
    Wowzer, thanks for the point out. Great website with loads of interesting docs.

  11. #36
    I need to preface my remarks by saying I am NOT, nor have I ever been, one to read manuals carefully and be patient when attempting to fly a complex model such as the Milviz ADV F-4. I have had this model for years, and it has spent 99% of the time in its virtual hangar.

    But! I decided to follow the advice/directions mentioned in previous posts, just to see what might happen. I actually flew around for almost a half hour, and was able to control it! The response to my joystick, a Logitech G940, in connection with a Saitek X52 and Rudder Pedals, is quite sensitive. But I think I can learn to fly this baby! YES! All is not lost! Navy Chief

  12. #37
    Thanks for bumping that topic, I realize I forgot to reply to Dimus after he provided me the advice about setting three units of nose-down trim for takeoff.
    That did the trick quite nicely indeed, and I had for the first time a smooth takeoff with an aircraft that was not desperatly attempting to perform a Cobra each and every second :
    The plane did reply to input quite nicely.
    So thank you Dimus for the advice

    Navy Chief, I can confirm the Milviz Phantom is also very, VERY sensitive to control inputs on my side. It's just a matter of getting used to it. Once you know it, suddenly the plane becomes much easier to handle.
    And I really like to start it cold&dark. Even in VR it's easy enough, the needed controls are all accessible. The only thing is the nose-wheel-steering, I have to push my VR helmet a bit up to see my keyboard to perform the key combo I assigned to that command, but that's ok

  13. #38
    Glad it helped Daube.

    Chief, I'm happy to see you're making progress and enjoying this beast of a plane.

    There are two major issues with flight simulation on a PC that get extrapolated with complex models like this one. The first is the lack of "seat of the pants" response feeling, with the only feedback being the visual (and some audible) feedback. The second one is the geometry and arrangement of the controllers. Even HOTAS systems, when placed on a desktop will be much different than the stick and throttle of an F-4. Response curves that correct the sensitivity, like the ones used in DCS or FSUIPC often help alleviate this.

    In planes that I can compare with real life (Cessnas and Pipers) I find easier to control in real life than e.g. the A2A accusimmed models in the sim, simply because I can "feel" the real one better.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingsCool View Post
    I dunno, sounds like a dedicated parking brake to me
    NO...it wasn't. Black and yellow pull lever by pilot's left knee, activated compressed gas braking system, against a spring loaded off position (to guard against landing with brakes on)

    Ttfn

    Pete

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Chief View Post

    But! I decided to follow the advice/directions mentioned in previous posts, just to see what might happen. I actually flew around for almost a half hour, and was able to control it! The response to my joystick, a Logitech G940, in connection with a Saitek X52 and Rudder Pedals, is quite sensitive. But I think I can learn to fly this baby! YES! All is not lost! Navy Chief
    Hey Chief

    If you don't mind taking a suggestion from this former Royal Air Force 'Sarge'...

    When you're setting things up, you're not putting fuel in #7 fuselage tank are you? That would put the C of G way out of whack.

    IIRC (and I'm going back 30 years here) , #7 tank was only ever used for in-flight trim for high speed flight (mach 1 and above) to keep C of G in limits and except for one or two load out configs, NEVER filled on ground before flight.

    Ttfn

    Pete

  16. #41

    Milviz Phantom

    Hi Guys,I am a retired real world Naval Aviator with 2000+ hours. I too experienced this with my Milviz Phantoms. I am used to trimming the bird automatically and always use appropriate fuel levels, but none-the-less, I always experienced a "roller coaster". Talking with Milviz did not prove satisfactory. My friend Frank had the exact same experience. I assure you that it is (probably) not you, but is the FDE that has been provided. Unfortunately it can not be modified by you to correct this situation. I gave up and flew a different airplane. This (IMHO) is the same with all the Milviz ADV aircraft.Bill

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