joy stick

[NachtPiloten]

need a new one. I have read several reviews and am confused.

Thought about the logitech x56 or x52
thrustmaster 1600?

any suggestions real world experience.

ted

[mongoose]

I have the X56 after the X55 and X52. I always have liked them but it depends if you want 2 things (stick and throttle) or just a stick. If you go X55 or 56 I do have some profiles you could mess with! Might even have the X52's somewhere.

[NachtPiloten]

484 views and only one response.......

[Snaker]

It depends if you want force feedback or not. I love my old Microsoft Sidewinder with force feedback. I have had it about 15 years and it is still going strong. I don't think any of the new ones have this feature though. You can pick up Sidewinders on e-bay or Amazon at times.

[Flamingskull5000]

The T-Flight Hotas One is a solid unit. Bought it about 2 years ago and no issues!

[MajorMagee]

I'm still using the Logitech Force3DPro.

[mongoose]

484 views and only one response.......

I feel for you as I find it very annoying! On the other hand I have also felt no response was better tan someone who knows nothing adding his 2 cents worth!

[SSI01]

Also just replaced a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro stick with a new one. Old was worn out after about 7 years of daily usage. Throttle movement did not match what was being shown in the cockpit; the calibration display center cross reference point continued to tremble slightly even after a dozen attempts at calibrating; half the buttons were frozen. All telltale signs it was shot. The new one is giving excellent service just as the first one did when new. You have just one throttle for anything you fly, however, it's possible to manipulate multiple throttles in other ways. It's been a very good joystick and I would recommend to anyone.

[Browncoat]

Microsoft broke the mold when it came to the “classic” non-HOTAS joystick with their Sidewinder series. I still have a USB Precision Pro 2 that I use for the X-wing series. It’s still as good as the day I got it 20 years (?!) ago.

I only switched to a Saitek X-52 (non-pro) because I found a deal at Best Buy for $80 brand new, and I wanted a setup with its own dedicated throttle. It served me well for about 10years. In fact it is still serviceable, but the potentiometers either need to be cleaned or have worn so it is not as “tight” as it used to be, especially the throttle.

Then there is the love/hate relationship I have with my Thrustmaster Warthog. Spit throttle makes for a great complex single engine setup and a serviceable multi-engine setup too. The “feel” from the stick is great, and the myriad of buttons will satisfy just about anyone. But it is stupid expensive, not only to buy but to repair! $500 was the initial outlay, but when a button broke beyond the Warrantee period it cost me $175 and weeks of frustration.

I attempted to replace the button myself, but the wires are so thin, and the housing so tight that I pinched more than one trying to put the handset together and ruining the replacement. In the end I gave up and agreed to buy a new handset for the joystick stand.

The warthog is great, and I enjoy using it, but wouldn’t recommend it to anyone due to my experience with broken parts and terrible repair-ability considering the price.

If I was looking for a HOTAS I would give the T1600 system a shot, or a X-52.

[MajorMagee]

Also just replaced a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro stick with a new one. Old was worn out after about 7 years of daily usage. Throttle movement did not match what was being shown in the cockpit; the calibration display center cross reference point continued to tremble slightly even after a dozen attempts at calibrating; half the buttons were frozen. All telltale signs it was shot. The new one is giving excellent service just as the first one did when new. You have just one throttle for anything you fly, however, it's possible to manipulate multiple throttles in other ways. It's been a very good joystick and I would recommend to anyone.

Mine has gotten the shakes lately. I wonder if it's time to hunt down a replacement as well.

[rince33]

I'm on my second Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick. I had a dirty potentiometer causing rudder alignment problems on the first stick. I cleaned the potentiometers with an aerosol contact cleaner and it prolonged the life of the joystick, though once you've taken the joystick handle apart its a bugger to put it back together again, requires patience. Fortunately it worked until I could find a replacement

[NachtPiloten]

I appreciate the time you folks took to respond, really. Reading reviews at the websites is not the most informative. Thanks again!

[mongoose]

Let me know if you go for an X5* If you don't fly all that much, a simpler cheaper type might be just as good. As I said though I have profiles plus visual versions for the Saitek/Logitec X5*'s

[MajorMagee]

Decided to replace the old Logitech Force 3D Pro because one of the buttons stopped working, and the FFB was randomly shaking more and more. Discovered that the Joystick market has been essentially out of stock since the release of FS2020 back in August. The few that were out there on the dark market were being marked up significantly (up to 2x list), and the normal distributors were all back-ordered out several months. After weeks of waiting and watching I caught a Logitech X52 Pro from Amazon last Sunday afternoon. I saw they had 7 in stock at the list price, and during the course of the <5 minutes of trying to place my order I watched it go down 6, 5, 4, 3, 2...

It's a relatively big HOTAS compared to what it replaced, so I had to rearrange my desk layout quite a bit, leaving the mouse sitting way out to the side.



The X52 Pro has a lot more controls so I did the set-up in two stages. To get started, I left it unprogrammed, and mapped the buttons that I could directly in the xca. (The Pinky switch, and Mode selector are ignored by the CFS3 controls editor)

</Device>
<Device Type="X52 Professional H.O.T.A.S.">
<GameMode Name="Player">
<Axis ID="X" Action="AXIS_AILERONS_SET" Scale="64" Nullzone="36"/>
<Axis ID="Y" Action="AXIS_ELEVATOR_SET" Scale="64" Nullzone="36"/>
<Axis ID="Throttle" Action="AXIS_THROTTLE_SET" Scale="127" Nullzone="1"/>
<Axis ID="Rudder" Action="AXIS_RUDDER_SET" Scale="64" Nullzone="36"/>
<Button ID="1" Action="FireGunsOnly"/>
<Button ID="2" Action="FireCannonsOnly"/>
<Button ID="3" Action="ReleaseFireWeapon"/>
<Button ID="4" Action="SelectNextWeapon"/>
<Button ID="5" Action="Toggle_BombBay"/>
<Pov ID="1" Action="HeadPov"/>
<Button ID="7" Action="NextTarget"/>
<Button ID="8" Action="GEAR_TOGGLE"/>
<Button ID="9" Action="FLAPS_DECR"/>
<Button ID="10" Action="FLAPS_INCR"/>
<Button ID="11" Action="ELEV_TRIM_UP"/>
<Button ID="12" Action="ELEV_TRIM_DN"/>
<Button ID="13" Action="BRAKES"/>
<Button ID="14" Action="SPOILERS_TOGGLE"/>
<Button ID="15" Action="Fire_Guns"/>
</GameMode>
<GameMode Name="M3DViewer">
<Pov ID="1" Action="HeadPov"/>
<Button ID="3" Action="ZoomIn" RepCnt="1"/>
<Button ID="4" Action="ZoomOut" RepCnt="1"/>
</GameMode>
<GameMode Name="Gunner">
<Axis ID="X" Action="TraverseGun" Scale="64" Nullzone="36"/>
<Axis ID="Y" Action="ElevateGun" Scale="64" Nullzone="36"/>
</GameMode>
</Device>

(You can't actually assign the Second Trigger in game, but you can hand edit it as Button 15 in the xca)

I'm currently in the process of using the Logitech programming software to map the keyboard commands to as many buttons, knobs, and switches as possible. In that case the listing in the xca is much more abbreviated to prevent any double mapping from causing conflicts when I use the Pinky and Mode switch options.

</Device>
<Device Type="X52 Professional H.O.T.A.S.">
<GameMode Name="Player">
<Axis ID="X" Action="AXIS_AILERONS_SET" Scale="64" Nullzone="36"/>
<Axis ID="Y" Action="AXIS_ELEVATOR_SET" Scale="64" Nullzone="36"/>
<Axis ID="Throttle" Action="AXIS_THROTTLE_SET" Scale="127" Nullzone="1"/>
<Axis ID="Rudder" Action="AXIS_RUDDER_SET" Scale="64" Nullzone="36"/>
<Pov ID="1" Action="HeadPov"/>
<Button ID="15" Action="Fire_Guns"/>
</GameMode>
<GameMode Name="M3DViewer">
<Pov ID="1" Action="HeadPov"/>
<Button ID="3" Action="ZoomIn" RepCnt="1"/>
<Button ID="4" Action="ZoomOut" RepCnt="1"/>
</GameMode>
<GameMode Name="Gunner">
<Axis ID="X" Action="TraverseGun" Scale="64" Nullzone="36"/>
<Axis ID="Y" Action="ElevateGun" Scale="64" Nullzone="36"/>
</GameMode>
</Device>

One cool thing I was able to program it to do this morning was to simulate a Gun Camera by calling up the GameBar video recording shortcut (Win+Alt+R) in combination with F6 (pilot view) and F3 (cockpit toggle to the crosshair). I have this attached to the Launch button under the Safe cover in Mode 3 with the Pinky switch activated. After you finish a firing engagement to can stop the camera and return to the normal cockpit by the same button press. Normally you can't use either the Win or Alt keys in CFS3, but programming it through the Logitech software get's around that.

[MajorMagee]

One thing I ran into with the X52 Pro is the dreaded stiction problem. This manifests itself as the stick getting hung up on small x-y movements, and then, with a lot of force applied, suddenly breaking loose to full throw.

The X52 Pro's two spring design is intended to be initially light with small movements, and then gives more resistance as you deflect the handle farther. This presumably is to represent the dynamic forces of increasing control deflection in the airstream.

I read all sorts of theories about the root cause and a range of contradictory solutions for the stiction issue. These mostly fell into two camps, over/under lubrication, and high/low spring force.

I spent a fair amount of time observing and diagnosing what was happening, and decided that it was a combination of the geometry of the dish supporting the bottom of the spring, and the spring force being applied. Even with my new factory lubricated stick, the initial downward spring force was strong enough that the lateral force vector from the mating lip through the disc and onto the shaft would create static friction high enough to prevent the disk from starting to rise up against the spring. Once it did start moving up the shaft the dynamic friction was naturally much lower, and it behaved as it should.

This led me to try one of the reduced spring force solutions. I used two twist ties to bind together opposite sides of a pair of adjacent turns in the middle of the outer coil spring. This reduced the spring force just enough that the stiction that was happening if I didn't keep the stick moving off dead center has been completely eliminated.

It's kind of a pity that I had to do this because I like a bit more tactile feedback when flying (my previous stick had the force feedback turned up), but smooth and predictable stick movements are critical to combat flying.