Late '50's CVA-42 FDR Carrier?

[FlyingsCool]

On a smaller scale, I did exactly that with AI Boat Traffic when I created NAS Alameda. I had the USS Constellation cruise from NAS Alameda to NAS San Diego and anchor in the harbor. You have to program the tracks in Google Earth. You can find out how to do this at Misty Moorings and the program is free. It is a lot of work but so much fun as you see it work. I think that I would program from Mayport to Norfolk as #1, then when you start FSX again, Norfolk to Gibralter as the next port of call etc. Do it in legs. I also programmed from NAS Alameda to Pearl Harbor the same way. It works. I quit experimenting when no one wanted to join me in my vCVW9 back 4 years ago. https://return.mistymoorings.com/faq...%20Dummies.pdf Here is your plan book to start with. Looking forward to you posting your results.

Awesome! Thanks so much, I'll definitely be checking it out!
(I'm imagining I'll skip the Norfolk to Gibraltar though, that'll take a few days won't it? )

Any idea where I can find an official ports of call for the cruise? The cruise book wasn't a ton of help. Perhaps it's accurate. I'm imagining Rome wasn't a port, but sailors did visit Rome (and Paris and the Swiss Alps???), but that seems a long way to travel for sailors on leave from Genoa to Rome while on duty/leave?

[Cees Donker]

Not sure what happened to Lazarus's stuff in the SOH Library?

And what happened to Lazarus himself? Hope he's doing allright?





Cees

[expat]

Yes, he has been a generous contributor and source of amusement here.

[FlyingsCool]

It seems he's left and taken his files with him? I haven't been able to find any of his contributions here.

[FlyingsCool]

Fixed up the two AD-5's. I still don't have positive identification of BuNo's for any of AD-5's on board.

It appears from one site there were only 3 each of the AD-5N and AD-5W on the boat. If anyone knows how to get the info I'd appreciate it.

A wing shot would be cool, too. From a couple of shots, the AD-5W's don't appear to have the modex on the wing. And I haven't seen any shots that show any identifying marks on the tail like the red stripe on the rudder tip for the other squadrons.







My attempt at the VAW-12 Logo from the cruise. Could use a little tidying up. But fine for the rez on the plane.

[Cees Donker]

It seems he's left and taken his files with him? I haven't been able to find any of his contributions here.

In case of need: I think I have most of his stuff on a drive.

Cees

[klnowak]

A bit off-topic - but I'm stoked about a Da Nang scenery ....

Back on topic ....

A bit off-topic : what it looks till now http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/55148-FSX-Screenshots-Here!!?p=1218394&viewfull=1#post1218394 Back on topic

greetings
Klaus

[Mike71]

Fixed up the two AD-5's. I still don't have positive identification of BuNo's for any of AD-5's on board.

It appears from one site there were only 3 each of the AD-5N and AD-5W on the boat. If anyone knows how to get the info I'd appreciate it--

These types of squadrons were large, and formed various "dets" to deploy with various airwings. The dets were typically 3 or 4 planes depending on what was perceived to be the need by fleet commanders. In addition to "left -handed SPADs", you see this with KA-3B / EA-3B / RA-3 dets and HC helo dets (before the formation and integration of full-up HS ASW squadrons on carriers).

One has to ask exactly when in a work up cycle or deployment that these photos were taken; the det might have just been stood up, therefore markings, etc still in transition, and/or the planes may have come from a recent source such as a RAG, overhaul, etc. These large squadrons were always in a state of flux, often the "orphan children" whose assets were, unfortunately, low priority at times. I see this in recent times in the C-2 community.

I would do a search of the parent squadron as well as "cruise books" or ship histories to see if it might lead to something.

Every Navy ship (actually, virtually any Navy command) has to submit an annual report to CNO summarizing an unclassified history for the past year, etc. Publicly available, they are easily found by a web search.

[FlyingsCool]

These types of squadrons were large, and formed various "dets" to deploy with various airwings. The dets were typically 3 or 4 planes depending on what was perceived to be the need by fleet commanders. In addition to "left -handed SPADs", you see this with KA-3B / EA-3B / RA-3 dets and HC helo dets (before the formation and integration of full-up HS ASW squadrons on carriers).

One has to ask exactly when in a work up cycle or deployment that these photos were taken; the det might have just been stood up, therefore markings, etc still in transition, and/or the planes may have come from a recent source such as a RAG, overhaul, etc. These large squadrons were always in a state of flux, often the "orphan children" whose assets were, unfortunately, low priority at times. I see this in recent times in the C-2 community.

I would do a search of the parent squadron as well as "cruise books" or ship histories to see if it might lead to something.

Every Navy ship (actually, virtually any Navy command) has to submit an annual report to CNO summarizing an unclassified history for the past year, etc. Publicly available, they are easily found by a web search.

Cool Thanks. I didn't know about the CNO annual report.

I'll see what I can find about that for 1957 and 1958. The cruise began July, 12 1957, and ended March 5th 1958.

I've been slowly figuring this stuff out.

I've been getting most of my pictures from the cruise book I purchased here https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv42-57/index.html
It's available for viewing on the website, and pdf for purchase is decentish.

Photos and other info on the Roosevelt I found here from multiple sailors https://ussfranklindroosevelt.com/

And, then, as I'm collating my sources, I noticed from here VA(AW)-33 used SS instead of AL? Kind of makes sense given what you said above. Back to the drawing board...
Edit: Found another pic of an AD-5/AD-5N landing and it clearly has "AL" on the tail. Sadly, can't make out any other markings. This was the only cruise to use AL.

Although from the previous pic, 1327X4 looks to be pretty clearly an AD-5 or 5N, and it had "AL" on the tail. Unless that's a window painted on the rear shell of an AD-5W?
I wish that hat wasn't in the way As I noted, it could be either 132724 would be an AD-5, 132734 would be an AD-5W. The outer wing doesn't have any weapons mount points, so it could be AD-5W, but if it was an AD-5 hack, it probably wouldn't have them either? The VAW-12 (AD-5W) guys are in front of it, but that doesn't mean it's one of their planes. Did they ever paint a window on the rear shell of an AD-5W? I haven't seen that.
http://www.wings-aviation.ch/24-Nava...948/CVG-17.htm

Then again, I just noticed 132687/132728 was cancelled from http://www.joebaugher.com/navy_seria...dseries15.html
So that would make it AD-5W 132734


Then finally this was the source for the realization of limited modexes http://www.gonavy.jp/CVG-CVG17.html

And then hours of searching photos in general from the internet an Squadron Signal books, etc...

[tgycgijoes]

Great work and dedication. Really interesting and informative. Before my time so it's new to me (USN 1966-1972; NSCC 1981-1993)

[FlyingsCool]

Great work and dedication. Really interesting and informative. Before my time so it's new to me (USN 1966-1972; NSCC 1981-1993)

Thanks
It's fun, and I'm motivated.
I will eventually get back to getting my '57-ish Saufley ready for release, too.

[FlyingsCool]

As I'm sure you're all aware, this is the kind of thing you have to deal with in research...



VA-176 wasn't on the Roosevelt in 1958... it was VA-175, which was dissolved when the Roosevelt returned from the cruise, and which was the only time AL was on the tail plane of an AD-6. Also, the rudder wasn't red, nor were the wintips..., the top of the tail was, though, but it also had the modex up there, too, on the tip of the tail.



This photo was consistent with a bunch of others I found.

Granted, here, the red looks day-glo, so I'm still questioning if it's red or day-glo, but most of the rest of the good color photos of the cruise make it looks like insignia red, so I went with that. Red is really bad as a color for photos. It nearly is always different from the actual shade it was. Somebody told me once because of the silver I think in the film?

[FlyingsCool]

Oh, and I wanted to correct this.

Got the list from this source originally,
https://ussfranklindroosevelt.com/?page_id=13380

but it didn't click for me from the pictures from the cruise book that the modexes were reversed between VA(AW)-33 and VAW-12. So here's the corrected list. I had several pics of the modexes from VA(AW)-33, just no associated BuNo's.... And I ain't got nothin' on VAW-12 markings for this cruise other than blurry landing pictures and the Mickey Mouse logo I found yesterday in the cruise book photos, and the modex numbers used already cited, and the fact there was no modex on the wing, just AL (derr, I just realized I already knew it was AL).

Air Group CVG-17

100 VF-171 Aces F2H-3 Banshee - Razbam
200 VF-74 Be-Devilers F4D-1 Skyray - Virtavia <---Modified from texture originally done by Bruce Martin
300 VAH-3 Sea Dragons A3D-1 Skywarrior - Virtavia
400 VA-175 Devil's Diplomats AD-6 Skyraider - Tim Conrad A-1H
600 VFP-62 Fighting Photos F2H-3P Banshee - Razbam

VFP-62 Fighting Photos F9F-6P Panther <--While VFP-62 flew these at this period, too, there were not any on this particular cruise

701-703 VA(AW)-33 DET. 37 Night Hawks AD-5N - Razbam
801-803 VAW-12 DET. 37 Bats AD-5W Skyraider - Razbam
HU-2 DET. 37 Fleet Angels Piasecki HUP-2 - Jim Jacobson, Baldy

[tgycgijoes]

When you are all done are you going to share all of this with us so that we can fly together? It IS possible to do this in CCP with Join FS or just JoinFS from a NAS and fly out to "Rosie". Navy Chief (Pete) and I did this off of Javier's Nimitz in A7 Corsair II's and also in Dino's E2 Hawkeye on a number of occasions and its a whole lot of fun. You can use different sims as well. When I reported aboard USS America CVA-66 in 1967 she had just gotten back from a Med Cruise and my bunkmate RD2 Bill H. had served aboard FDR on her last cruise.

[FlyingsCool]

When you are all done are you going to share all of this with us so that we can fly together? It IS possible to do this in CCP with Join FS or just JoinFS from a NAS and fly out to "Rosie". Navy Chief (Pete) and I did this off of Javier's Nimitz in A7 Corsair II's and also in Dino's E2 Hawkeye on a number of occasions and its a whole lot of fun. You can use different sims as well. When I reported aboard USS America CVA-66 in 1967 she had just gotten back from a Med Cruise and my bunkmate RD2 Bill H. had served aboard FDR on her last cruise.

Cool! Yes, that's the plan

I hope to finish the paints up by next week and release those. Then I'll need to work on the cruise portion, and the boat as long as Lazarus and the Virtual Navy folk are amenable to my releasing the ship I've been working on.

Edit: Oh, and I plan on making multiple skins for each plane

[tgycgijoes]

It's nice to have another crazy, obsessed soul like me here on the SOH LOL!!!! That way the rest of the guys don't think I'm the only one doing an entire squadron's multiple skins, ports of call etc.

[FlyingsCool]

It's nice to have another crazy, obsessed soul like me here on the SOH LOL!!!! That way the rest of the guys don't think I'm the only one doing an entire squadron's multiple skins, ports of call etc.

Yep, I just finished up the details on the F4D and did 5 paints for it the other night for the Modex/BuNo combos I know for the cruise. Lost power last night for a couple hours so didn't get much done. I wanna to redo the insignia on the F2H-3's and finish those up this weekend. I've got 12 Modex/BuNo configs I know for that plane. And maybe learn how to do dirt on skins so I can finish up the 2 HUP-2's I know were on the cruise.

I found one source that said there were only 3 planes from VFP-62 on the cruise, 601-603, but I could swear I saw a picture of 604, too. But that could be a replacement for 603 which ran into the barrier during the cruise, also saw a picture of it dumping it's wingtip tanks because they weren't transferring fuel, and I imagine he had to dump the tanks because he couldn't dump the fuel before landing? I have BuNo's for 602 and 603.

[tgycgijoes]

I just downloaded the free Alphasim/Virtavia FSX T-28C Trojan and have AICarriers re-installed in FSX, vLSO re-installed, Carrier Convoy Planner set up too. I have a few older carriers installed to fly on and off again while you finish up the Midway. When its complete if you need help with those programs when you are ready to fly, just PM me.

[FlyingsCool]

Just wanted to say I'm still here. I was able to figure out how to clear off the deck of the FDR (1960+ Coral Sea model). (Though I'm actually starting to think Gary's Essex angle deck Essex model might be a better fit, slightly shorter than Midway class, but much closer with the elevators config). I also fixed up the 2D deck crew textures, as many of them had been alpha channeled a little too aggressively and were mostly transparent in incorrect places.

I did it with a combination of MCX and GMax, selecting triangles and deleting them. I was very happy MCX retained the texture callouts of the ship when I sent it out and read it back in. I still haven't figured out how to make the hangar deck a platform. Also, writing the model out of GMax also increased the number of texture vertices for some reason, I'm not sure why.

My next step is to figure out how to make deck configurations of aircraft including 3 or 4 F2H-3 Banshees, maybe a photo banshee or two, a couple F4D's, a HUP, a Skywarrior of better quality than what was on the ship previously, and a couple Skyraiders to round it out. I'm imagining freeware versions of the Virtavia Skywarrior and Ford would work, the HUP model I'm using should work as AI. Are there any AI Skyraiders? I'm imagining the "Piglet" Skyraider is a little heavy for AI purposes? If anyone would like to help with this part of the project I'd appreciate it. I ain't so good at model creation.

Finally, has anyone figured out how to make Steam Edition have reasonable, or any, smoke effects? I notice they don't work in Steam (they do work in Boxed FSX). I've read if you turn it down to medium quality it works, but the smoke then looks like bubbles. Haven't tried it myself yet.

[tgycgijoes]

Keep on keepin' on with the good work.

[gp183601]

Just wanted to say I'm still here. I was able to figure out how to clear off the deck of the FDR (1960+ Coral Sea model). (Though I'm actually starting to think Gary's Essex angle deck Essex model might be a better fit, slightly shorter than Midway class, but much closer with the elevators config). I also fixed up the 2D deck crew textures, as many of them had been alpha channeled a little too aggressively and were mostly transparent in incorrect places.

I had a look at Klaus' FDR and the sketchfab original (which has since been removed for download) but as they were derived from World Of Warships they are INSANELY detailed and complex for FSX. It took me hours just to adapt the gun emplacements and create a hurricane bow at which point I gave up.....and interestingly I did wonder if it would be quicker taking one of my Essex Hulls and just enlarging and adapting that to create an FDR so you might be on to something!

Cheers
Gary

[FlyingsCool]

I had a look at Klaus' FDR and the sketchfab original (which has since been removed for download) but as they were derived from World Of Warships they are INSANELY detailed and complex for FSX. It took me hours just to adapt the gun emplacements and create a hurricane bow at which point I gave up.....and interestingly I did wonder if it would be quicker taking one of my Essex Hulls and just enlarging and adapting that to create an FDR so you might be on to something!

Cheers
Gary

That'd be freakin' awesome! Savin' my butt again... I keep hopin' for an SCB-110 Midway/FDR model (Coral Sea SCB-110a was closer to Midway SCB-101. I don't think the Optical Landing system was added till 1960, but I'd be down with it if it had it... I can send you a PDF of the '57-'58 Med Cruise book if you're interested. FDR did SCB-110 in '55. Not a ton of pictures in it (largely the women the sailors met on the cruise, haha - cause... Navy). But there's a little good info.

[FlyingsCool]

Life launching on the FDR... 1964

https://youtu.be/fEW5jACD1iE

[tgycgijoes]

Thank you for that utube video. I was down in CIC when this was all going on or in Flag Plot 2nd tour so I never got to see flight ops that close and personal. Its not the same as the still shots in the cruise books. Didn't realize how little clearance the flight deck crewmen had hooking up an F8 Crusader. My thoughts were: "what idiot engineer" ever made it so close to the deck.

[Mike71]

Certainly some of the best footage one will ever see of the cat hookup operations prior to present day "Flush Deck Nose Gear Launch" or "Fandangle" as it is called, with its launch bar replacing the bridle / Van Zelm bridle arrester lanyards, as well as the Repeatable Release Holdback Trailbar replacing the old, one time use holdback plug.

One gets mesmerized watching these young folks working the hookup - close attention and you realize they are kneeling / lying on the non-skid coating of the Flight Deck. anyone who has ever seen this stuff will remember that the stuff is ROUGH AS HELL! You think kneeling on a cement or asphalt surface is painful? Try non-skid --