FR B-24 Liberator Released
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Thread: FR B-24 Liberator Released

  1. #1

    FR B-24 Liberator Released

    Just to let you know that the Flight Replicas B-24 Liberator is now available.

    For more information: http://www.flight-replicas.com/B24_Home.htm

    And I can't thank the 'pre-painters' enough for volunteering their talents and time to help make this a very special experience. They prepared an amazing selection for you.

    Hope you like it!

  2. #2
    Do'oh! There goes my allowance...bought it...AND the Super Cub....downloading.

    Kent

  3. #3
    It is such a magnificent product by Mike, with an incredibly high level of accuracy and detail throughout.

    I only just finished this repaint a couple days ago, so it is not included with my other two, but I have just uploaded it here to Sim-Outhouse. This repaint depicts the restored Consolidated Fort Worth built B-24J-85-CF 44-44052 owned and operated by The Collings Foundation, registered as N224J, one of only two B-24's still flying. This aircraft was originally delivered to the RAF as a Liberator GR.VI, serial KH191, in October 1944 and flew anti-shipping, bombing and re-supply missions in the Pacific Theatre. After WWII it was one of 36 B-24's to actively serve in the Indian Air Force until 1968. In 1981 the aircraft was acquired by Doug Arnold and airfreighted to the UK where it was stored until the Collings Foundation acquired it in 1984. The restoration to return the aircraft to flight took place at Tom Reilly's Vintage Aircraft company in Kissimmee, Florida, which after more than 5 years and 97,000+ man hours resulted in the aircraft flying again for the first time on Sept. 10, 1989. It was initially painted as "The All American", and then as "The Dragon and His Tail" for several years. In 2005, the aircraft was completely repainted as it appears now as 'Witchcraft'. The original 'Witchcraft' was a Ford-built B-24H assigned to the 790th BS, 467th BG, 8th Air Force, based at Rackheath, England, known as the "Rackheath Aggies". The original 'Witchcraft' flew an incredible 130 combat missions with various crews between April 1944 and April 1945 with no serious injuries or casualties to any of its crew members. In 2005, original 467th BG artist and 'Witchcraft' crewman Bob Dekerf applied the nose art on the Collings aircraft just as he had on the original in 1944.

    These screenshots are from FSX in DX10 mode.









    And a screenshot just to show that I did take the time to make sure that when the waist gunner's windows and deflector panels are all closed up, that the stars & bars are all properly aligned across all of those parts. : )

    John Terrell
    Lenovo Legion T730, water-cooled Intel i-9900K, Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 8GB, 2TB HDD, 32GB DDR4
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/34363610@N08/

  4. #4
    Just bought the civilian version, do not fly much with military aircraft anyway. Can't wait to get the download

  5. #5
    Thanks for doing Witchcraft John. It's fun to fly stuff in FSX that I've actually seen in the markings I saw them in. Downloading my B-24 fleet now!

  6. #6
    Awesome job Mike! Is the paint kit available or did I miss it? I was hoping you would do that paint John!
    Greenhouse357

  7. #7
    I bought the complete package. Thanks for the models!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenhouse357 View Post
    Awesome job Mike! Is the paint kit available or did I miss it? I was hoping you would do that paint John!
    Yes, the paint kits are available on the Downloads page:

    http://www.flight-replicas.com/Downloads.htm

  9. #9
    Thanks, Mike. I'm getting old and blind as a bat evidently. I looked on that page earlier lol.
    Greenhouse357

  10. #10
    Awesome!!!! OMW to get it.

    BTW, did you guys know the Colling's Foundation lost their certificate to operate due to safety violations? Just an FYI.

    Anyway, it's Liberator time!!! Look out Ploesti!
    Last edited by Sundog; April 22nd, 2020 at 16:28.

  11. #11
    One of my Facebook friends/acquaintances used to fly as a pilot for Collings (1,300 hrs in the B-24, as well as time in the B-17, B-25 and a ton of hours in the TP-51C as well), and while testing the Flight Replicas B-24 I exchanged a few e-mails with him about flying the Collings B-24J for sake of comparison. One of the items discussed was how, although the Collings B-24 is fully loaded with all of the combat equipment such as turrets/armament/ammunition/WWII radios, etc., they fly it quite lightly loaded, starting at around 40,000 lbs gross weight for a typical flight with minimum crew. As such, for a typical flight in the sim with the Flight Replicas B-24J, I only load 250 gallons per wing, which will get you quite far, and I fly with the weight of the bombs removed and sometimes even with the crew weight down to only 600 lbs (minimum crew of pilot/co-pilot/crew chief), this way you're not dealing with trying to get a dump truck in the air like you do with a full mission combat loading of fuel and bombs (but of course if you are wanting to fly the airplane on a single trip, all day long, it can do it and more on a full fuel load). Some of the things that we discussed, and which Mike's flight model simulates so well, is that when you are making banks or turns in the B-24, you have to lead with the rudders due to the amount of adverse yaw caused by the long wings. When comparing flying the B-24 to the B-17 and B-25, the B-24 was said to be the most unstable of the three, but it is much more responsive on the controls than the B-17. The B-24 has been described to me as being a "neutrally stable" aircraft. A crucial aspect of flying the B-24 is "getting on the step", like a boat, when transitioning from climb to cruise. If you fail to get the nose down and on the step you can lose up to 20 mph and just be mushing along in a nose-high attitude. Since there is no published VMC, Collings (and probably the CAF as well) use 130mph as the number. An item I learned from another Collings pilot, and which I also first noticed with Mike's B-24 flight model, is that the B-24 requires a flat approach for landing, as the flaps don't support a steep approach. Another of the important aspects in operating a B-24 that I was told was of the nose gear being a weak point and that it can cause a shimmy if it is left on the ground too long into the takeoff roll. On the takeoff roll, it was described to me that you want to hold some light back pressure on the elevator to help the nose wheel to come up (after 60 mph), and then hold that pressure allowing the aircraft to fly off on its own, around 110mph. I usually dial in about 3.5-degrees nose up trim prior to takeoff, and then begin taking some of it out after getting the gear up (a process I have seen at play in operating the Collings B-24). On landing, you want to hold the nose gear off, which also helps in aerodynamic braking, and lower it gently, then start building the brake pressure up to slow down to taxi speed.

    About Collings losing their certificate for providing history flights. Collings will be able to reapply when the time is right, with proof of proper actions, and I hope they will. They would of course be under much greater scrutiny and oversight going forward.
    Last edited by Bomber_12th; April 22nd, 2020 at 19:52.
    John Terrell
    Lenovo Legion T730, water-cooled Intel i-9900K, Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 8GB, 2TB HDD, 32GB DDR4
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/34363610@N08/

  12. #12
    I have Flown the 24 all afternoon with my Operating Manual beside me. I am very impressed with the level of accuracy and how well this airplane "Fly's" the Numbers. I knew a B-24 pilot for many years who flew out of the airport where I did. When asked, he always said the key to flying the B-24 well, was being able to get it "on-step," and keep it balanced there throughout the flight. (He was talking Long Range of course loaded with Fuel and Bombs, and then returning light back to base) He said that in itself was hard work... then you had to try to Form up, and hold your place in the Formation at the same time for hours on end. Bob used to ask "What's your definition of responsibility?" He then would say that he was 22 years old. Shining bars on his shoulders and Wings upon his chest, and the U.S. Army gave him a Brand new $300,000 B-24. 10 guys with Browning .50 Caliber machine guns and a Top-Secret Norden Bomb Sight, and laid upon him the responsibility of getting them from Nebraska to England...ALIVE!! He also loved to add that the B-24's built by Ford Motor Company were Far superior to the ones built in other factories. He said the Ford built Lib's were Tighter, Quieter, more Reliable, and a few knots faster than the others because of the high standards and tight tolerances Ford demanded. Bob said you could really tell the difference.

    This thing is a real joy to fly, and was well worth the wait!! With all the incredible repaints available with it...this is an aircraft package that will be hard to beat for a Long, Long time!! My hat is off to Flight Replicas! Thank You to the Painters as well, and let's remember those who Flew these back when they were needed and what was required of them all...
    "Keep 'Em Flying!!"

  13. #13
    Too bad only for Acceleration and not SP2 ......
    Cheers,
    MZee

    W7 64Bit, i7 2600, 16GB DDR3, GeForce 1660Ti 6GB, Asus P8Z68-V LX, WD20EARX 2TB (64MB) SATA 3 HDD, Cooler Master GX750, NZXT 'Red' Phantom

  14. #14
    It should work just fine in SP2, I think you just won't have the turbo simulation that is allowed with Acceleration (as is also the case with P3D).
    John Terrell
    Lenovo Legion T730, water-cooled Intel i-9900K, Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 8GB, 2TB HDD, 32GB DDR4
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/34363610@N08/

  15. #15
    SOH-CM-2020 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomber_12th View Post
    .......Some of the things that we discussed, and which Mike's flight model simulates so well, is that when you are making banks or turns in the B-24, you have to lead with the rudders due to the amount of adverse yaw caused by the long wings. When comparing flying the B-24 to the B-17 and B-25, the B-24 was said to be the most unstable of the three, but it is much more responsive on the controls than the B-17. The B-24 has been described to me as being a "neutrally stable" aircraft. A crucial aspect of flying the B-24 is "getting on the step", like a boat, when transitioning from climb to cruise. If you fail to get the nose down and on the step you can lose up to 20 mph and just be mushing along in a nose-high attitude. Since there is no published VMC, Collings (and probably the CAF as well) use 130mph as the number. An item I learned from another Collings pilot, and which I also first noticed with Mike's B-24 flight model, is that the B-24 requires a flat approach for landing, as the flaps don't support a steep approach. Another of the important aspects in operating a B-24 that I was told was of the nose gear being a weak point and that it can cause a shimmy if it is left on the ground too long into the takeoff roll. On the takeoff roll, it was described to me that you want to hold some light back pressure on the elevator to help the nose wheel to come up (after 60 mph), and then hold that pressure allowing the aircraft to fly off on its own, around 110mph. I usually dial in about 3.5-degrees nose up trim prior to takeoff, and then begin taking some of it out after getting the gear up (a process I have seen at play in operating the Collings B-24). On landing, you want to hold the nose gear off, which also helps in aerodynamic braking, and lower it gently, then start building the brake pressure up to slow down to taxi speed.
    Some good 'gouge' for the users there Bomber_12th on how to fly this aeroplane. Look forward to having a go at this one in time. I thought it would be worth mentioning that 'leading with rudder in any aircraft in any turn' is the way to fly any aeroplane but rarely stressed by younger pilots who get used to aircraft with more stable designs that were designed to be be easy to fly. This is hard to do in flight simulation unless you have a stick and pedal rudder setup and if like me a joystick and keyboard beyond my dexterity so my turns in the sim are always unbalanced to start. The same with getting on the 'step' which was fundamental to getting older types to fly accurately straight and level - generally the best technique to achieve this was to get slightly above your desired cruising level and then nudge the nose down and then reset the attitude to straight and level on capturing that altitude. Again older types and designs this was common knowledge and practice but again another older flying issue that is largely no longer stressed with modern aircraft. A small point 'adverse yaw' is a result of the aileron design not the wing which is why differential ailerons and freize ailerons were developed and neutrally stable means if displaced from a path it will move to that new path and stay there that is the design will not work aerodynamically to get it back to the old path - all typical aerodynamic problems with aircraft of that era - after all aerodynamics was an evolving science and still is. A little off topic I realise. I do recall Ernest K Gann who flew these as well had the view they were structurally weak in the nose wing area which meant a crash landing would have the nose section fold up around the cockpit area a feature he was not impressed with. Anyway look forward to punting this one around indeed.

  16. #16
    Purchased, downloaded, and flying. Always a favorite aircraft from my young plastic model days. A must have for warbird fans. I wonder...... if there are plans for automated turrets that would come on at X altitude in future versions?

    cheers,

    d
    Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by dvj View Post
    Purchased, downloaded, and flying. Always a favorite aircraft from my young plastic model days. A must have for warbird fans. I wonder...... if there are plans for automated turrets that would come on at X altitude in future versions?

    cheers,

    d
    There were all sorts of plans for the turrets, and other things, but unfortunately there's a limit to polygons and animations and the B-24 is at the very absolute limit of what I could get to compile.

    I dream of the day when there are no limits.

  18. #18
    It there a way to open the sliding and/or hinged windows in the cockpit? I only saw clickspots for the waist gunners, ball turret and pilots in the manual. Or, as the post above states, were you out of animations so they are indeed fixed?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Patterson View Post
    It there a way to open the sliding and/or hinged windows in the cockpit? I only saw clickspots for the waist gunners, ball turret and pilots in the manual. Or, as the post above states, were you out of animations so they are indeed fixed?
    They are indeed fixed.

  20. #20
    Incidentally, if you're curious about how popular FSX is these days, here's how the first two days of sales have gone:

    P3Dv4.5 = 22%

    P3Dv5 = 22%

    FSX/P3D to v3 = 56%


    Wouldn't necessarily read too much into it, could well change over time and it may just apply to the demographic interested in WW2 bombers, etc..

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_cyul View Post
    They are indeed fixed.
    Bummer, but I understand. Heck of an add on! I see there is a PB4Y model listed, but no actual planes. (Other than the texture JK did on the J. Looks fantastic.) Is your model the glass nosed or turret nosed -1?

  22. #22
    Has anyone else had problems with the textures for "Witchcraft", "Princess Pat" or "My Akin?" I have the Bob Rivera modified textures, but the windows and VCs on these three are black for me. Are they P3D and do not work in FSX? All the other textures I've added (Holy cow there are a lot!) have been fine.

  23. #23
    Josh, for my repaints, I only included the files I modified or made myself. As I instruct in my readme files, you have to copy the contents of the product's Texture.461st folder and paste those texture files into my repaint folders (not overwriting my files) in order to have the rest of the needed texture files. This way too, I figured it wouldn't require so much download time for my repaints.
    John Terrell
    Lenovo Legion T730, water-cooled Intel i-9900K, Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 8GB, 2TB HDD, 32GB DDR4
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/34363610@N08/

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Bomber_12th View Post
    Josh, for my repaints, I only included the files I modified or made myself. As I instruct in my readme files, you have to copy the contents of the product's Texture.461st folder and paste those texture files into my repaint folders (not overwriting my files) in order to have the rest of the needed texture files. This way too, I figured it wouldn't require so much download time for my repaints.
    Okay, thanks for the help.. I didn't read anything as I thought I knew what I was doing. I noticed some of the other add-on textures have only eight files but include a texture.cfg falling back to the 461 texture. I tried just copying that to the Princess Pat folder and that also gets everything working. Something to watch out four next time I have trouble. The bare metal repaints are nice and shiny. Just like if I owned one!

  25. #25
    Sounds good, Josh! I had tried the .cfg file setup too, but I could never get it to work properly every time.

    B-24's were very reflective and shiny when they rolled out of the factory. This wasn't due to any sort of polishing, but the fact that brand new, fresh aluminum from Alcoa with their "Alclad" finish, and from Reynolds with their equivalent "Pure Clad" finish, came that way. Skins/panels that had to be handled more and skins with complex curves became dulled in areas where tools (rollers or dies) left microscopic imperfections during the shaping processes (these duller panels can appear both brighter or darker compared to the rest of the skins, depending on the lighting/reflection scenario), but for the most part they were pretty clean machines when they came out of the factory. In the months to follow, they of course would begin to dull some with oxidation while in service - but you can even still see in color photos and movie footage taken in the Pacific, at the end of the war, of B-24's with numerous missions to their credit, still being very reflective (not always illustrated well in B&W photos). When doing "Pugnacious Princess Pat", I noticed it still had quite a high level of reflection in the surface of the aluminum skins (with 11 missions under its belt at the time), and I wanted to have it looking that way in the sim as well. I've also been inspired by model box art that typically portrays B-24's with quite a reflective/shiny finish too. On my repaint of "My Akin ?", it really should be dulled more, with all of the mission markings on it, but I really just wanted to keep it reflective and shiny with the red cowl rings, which really attracted me to it (as it is depicted with in artwork). It ensures the aircraft still looks nice flying into a modern airport or a virtual airshow in FSX or P3D as well. : )



    John Terrell
    Lenovo Legion T730, water-cooled Intel i-9900K, Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 8GB, 2TB HDD, 32GB DDR4
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/34363610@N08/

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