JP (and co)'s Alphasim/Virtavia F-4 Revival for FSX/P3D - Page 12
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Thread: JP (and co)'s Alphasim/Virtavia F-4 Revival for FSX/P3D

  1. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Manschy View Post
    Gents - I am close to tears

    With almost simultaneously help of Priller and Andy (Noddy), who did send me their packs graciously, I can tell you all:

    IT WORKS!!!!!

    I tried both packages and finally I can do wider ranges....All tanks appear in appropriate colors now.

    Thank you both so much, that made my week!
    My pleasure Manschy!

    Priller

  2. #277
    SOH-CM-2023 Manschy's Avatar
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    @ Penz:

    You're welcome.

    Good to know that's not an issue just inside my brain
    Best regards, Manfred.

  3. #278
    I had planned on releasing version 1.1 today, but I have decided to wait, for a couple of reasons.

    First, I am not happy with the whole issue with the colours of external tanks, and the confusion it has led to, so I'll have to see if I can come up with something that is a bit more elegant. I have an idea for a better solution, but it requires some work.

    Second, it would be nice to freeze the contents of the loadout package once and for all. So, it would be wise to hold back release until I can include Klaus' Maverick missles. And perhaps, now I have heard of its existence, some AIM-120, as retrofitted to German F-4s. I haven't been able to find a picture of an F-4 with AMRAAMs, does anybody know how that looked?

    Anyway, this just to explain why you will have to wait patiently a bit longer for all the marvellous updates and the new RF-4B.

    In other news: I am very happy to announce that Rob Barendregt has decided to lend his magic to the project! He will make drag and weight depend on loadout, instead of the current fixed values. A daring feat! This will be for version 1.2, because that kind of magic takes much time and focus.

    All the best,
    JP
    - Jens Peter "Penz" Pedersen

  4. #279
    SOH-CM-2023 Manschy's Avatar
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    Penz and all involved, take your time as long as you need!!! The project is such a nice gift that it is worth waiting for.
    Best regards, Manfred.

  5. #280
    SOH-CM-2024 Duckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penz View Post
    I had planned on releasing version 1.1 today, but I have decided to wait, for a couple of reasons.
    First, I am not happy with the whole issue with the colours of external tanks, and the confusion it has led to,...
    ...and the new RF-4B.
    ...In other news: I am very happy to announce that Rob Barendregt has decided to lend his magic to the project! ...
    All the best,
    JP
    This just keeps getting better. Very patiently waiting for the RF-4B.

    Steve
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  6. #281
    I found a few pictures, so here is first test of "Das Deutsche AMRAAM".


    Thanks to Ulrich for the model hint!

    -JP
    - Jens Peter "Penz" Pedersen

  7. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Manschy View Post
    Penz and all involved, take your time as long as you need!!! The project is such a nice gift that it is worth waiting for.

    Fully agree.


    Bob

  8. #283

    AB, Power Curve and Throttle Settings

    Originally Posted by expat
    I notice that the AB seems to comes in regardless of performance almost immediatly with any increase in acceleration. Most other sim aircraft engage the AB only when the throttle is at e.g., 95% of its maximum travel. This seems a bit more realistic. With the exisiting configuration, I find even if I want to accelerate even modestly from say 200 - 300 KIAS the AB kickis in when I don't want it to. Can this be looked at?



    We will look into that, thank you for reporting!

    Cheers,
    JP
    Observing this further, I don't thnk this is just an AB effect issue. The throttle also has a noticeable "ketchup bottle" effect - nothing, nothing, then WHOOSH! it all comes out at once -and goes from little power to massive power at one small spot along the throttle travel, rather than the power progressing evenly on a linear basis. Don't have this issue on other aircraft so don't need or want to change my throttle controls settings (though most turboprops have this issue on startup). No expert but a guess might be this could be tweaked in the air.cfg flight tuning or other sections.
    Striker, listen, and you listen close: flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle, just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.

  9. #284

    AB, Power Curve and Throttle Settings

    Hi expat,

    The afterburner effect are hardcoded with the model file and can't be tweaked in the air.cfg flight tuning or other sections.
    They must be changed with modeldef.xml settings.
    That's what i've done after i read your first post.
    The afterburner effects was depended from the N1 rpm and not as usually from the throttle controls.
    This is the reason why they appear somewhat delayed
    I have set them now to both rpm and throttle, stage 1 at 77% and stage 2 ( with flame) at 95%.
    The new effect settings will come with the next update.

    Cheers
    Ulrich

  10. #285
    Hi Ulrich,

    Our post just crossed eachother.
    Sorry...


    Rob

  11. #286
    Hi Ulrich, 'Expat',

    Oh boy ….

    Not sure what happened on this forum, but when trying to edit my long, original post on AB (which crossed with Ulrich's post), the original text got lost. * sigh*

    So trying again, with both your reply's in mind:

    First, if I read both your replies correctly, you are referrring to two different, and, in MSFS, independant things:
    1. The visual effect of AB (Ulrich).
    2. The FDE (thrust/speed) effect of AB (user 'Expat')

    And what complicates it further: both the FDE effect and visual effect depends on what's possible in FSX/P3D and their versions.

    - FS9, FSX-RTM/SP1/SP2 only knows a AB On or Off (FDE wise); although the visual AB effect can be split into two stages: the usual 'blue' lights in the engines exhausts (stage-1), plus the AB flames (stage-2).
    Which can be implemented in the visual model itself (as Ulrich explains), or through visual effect files in the Effect folder (using a gauge that auto-controls 'lights').

    - FSX-Accel (or 'Gold') , Steam and P3D has a so-called Multi-stage AB (like in the default FA-18 Hornet) , which can be simulated both FDE-wise , and visually, in the model code.

    So the question is: are we optimising this (FDE-wise and visually) for FSX-Accel and up, or not ??

    On top of that:
    The FDE-effect (speed/thrust) of AB is simulated in the .air file: table 1524 ('Turbine Afterburner Thrust vs. Mach no').
    So you can make AB thrust depending on Mach speed (which is how it should be); in the current version of the .air file, this is now a flat curve (none, or max). Which could/should be improved.
    Which explains the remark made by 'Expat', about full AB accelleration kicking in even at 200 knots or so. This is indeed not correct.

    Furthermore, in FSX-Accel and up, in the aircraft.cfg you can define a number of AB-stages: varying from first-stage (at a defined 'min-throttle-%) to n-th stage (at '100%-throttle).
    Again, this FDE-effect is independant on how it's visually modelled; either with model-included or external visual .fx effect files.

    To model this AB effect (FDE-wise and visually) properly, I would suggest that this F4 project is intented for FSX-Accel as minimum platform requirement.
    Not just related to AB, but for some other reasons as well (don't get me started on the mis-conception of many FS users that FSX-Accel is just FSX-SP2 + a few added aircraft … LoL )

    Cheers, Rob

  12. #287
    In FSX you can have any number of visual effect 'stages' you like....using the light section...or better still the smoke....so you don't turn on your landing lights or something during a 'stage'.
    I've been changing all my 'fiddling' to smoke in xml....stages like....smoke only, small glow [and smoke], large glow [and smoke], full AB [and smoke] ....and set it to engine rpm, not throttle...as therr ought to be a 'lag' as the turbine winds up. By the time you have 4 stages and 4 engines [fsx limit] you've run out of 'lights' anyway...but not smoke....so you can have engines shut down along with their effects [as they should be]...

  13. #288
    I just posted this info over in the P3D forum, but assuming some people don't follow both, I thought some might find this info interesting...

    There's a ton of different flight manuals and information here at this site, including flight manuals and books on the F-4 in all its versions (and tons of other aircraft).

    http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/

    For consolidated info, the aircraft SAC's (Standard Aircraft Characteristics) have a lot of condensed info

    Here's one for the F-4J http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com...-aircraft.html

    and for the F-4B http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com...-aircraft.html

    I didn't see a SAC for the F-4E, but the guy who runs the site is totally open to finding the documents you might ask for. He was an Engineer at Douglas Aircraft, and the F-4 is a particular favorite of his.

    hint: Many of the document links are stored at postimg.org, which apparently changed their address, modify the url to postimage.org and the link will work.

    Oh, and it's best to try to download documents after the first of the month as the download limits get reset every month at some of the sites he stores documents at. It's not that you can't download documents, but, especially at one particular site, after a certain limit, you only get one download an hour. Before that, it just goes straight to download as much as you want.

  14. #289
    Lots of good info there, thanks Flyingscool!

    I got a missile package from Kurt, and have incorporated it in the weapons pack. Now I "just" need to rewrite the loadout gauge code to add the AIM-120 and AGM-65 (not really looking forward to that, but it has to be done!).


    Cheers,
    JP
    - Jens Peter "Penz" Pedersen

  15. #290
    That looks freakin' gorgeous Jens!

  16. #291
    Yep....really looking good, Jens....
    Now, all that's needed is the same amount of dedication, effort and expertise to be pointed at the AS F105 [nudge, nudge, wink, wink, know what I mean?]....I already have 'years' invested into a 2D 'pit for the Thud...

  17. #292
    ..... nudge nudge wink wink + 1

  18. #293
    I struggled to find any repaints for the F4-EJ model, but then I stumbled across this pretty amazing one at AVSIM:

    (By Pierre Lheureux, filename "texture.blue.zip").

    The loadout gauge is finished, now just putting finishing touches on the 1.1 package.

    Cheers,
    JP
    - Jens Peter "Penz" Pedersen

  19. #294


    Posted version 1.1 to the library.
    - Jens Peter "Penz" Pedersen

  20. #295
    Charter Member 2015 delta_lima's Avatar
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    Thanks JP! Gonna be a long day at the office ....

    What carrier are you using in your screenie? Looks really nice!

    I'm sure it'll be a superb work of art, as the versions leading up to it have demonstrated.

    thanks in advance,

    dl

  21. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by delta_lima View Post
    What carrier are you using in your screenie? Looks really nice!
    Hehe, it's just the stock FS carrier with some 70's aircraft added by me. It makes a pretty good Kitty Hawk.

    Cheers,
    JP
    - Jens Peter "Penz" Pedersen

  22. #297
    Hi Ulrich, 'Expat',

    Oh boy ….

    Not sure what happened on this forum, but when trying to edit my long, original post on AB (which crossed with Ulrich's post), the original text got lost. * sigh*

    So trying again, with both your reply's in mind:

    First, if I read both your replies correctly, you are referrring to two different, and, in MSFS, independant things:
    1. The visual effect of AB (Ulrich).
    2. The FDE (thrust/speed) effect of AB (user 'Expat')

    And what complicates it further: both the FDE effect and visual effect depends on what's possible in FSX/P3D and their versions.

    - FS9, FSX-RTM/SP1/SP2 only knows a AB On or Off (FDE wise); although the visual AB effect can be split into two stages: the usual 'blue' lights in the engines exhausts (stage-1), plus the AB flames (stage-2).
    Which can be implemented in the visual model itself (as Ulrich explains), or through visual effect files in the Effect folder (using a gauge that auto-controls 'lights').

    - FSX-Accel (or 'Gold') , Steam and P3D has a so-called Multi-stage AB (like in the default FA-18 Hornet) , which can be simulated both FDE-wise , and visually, in the model code.

    So the question is: are we optimising this (FDE-wise and visually) for FSX-Accel and up, or not ??

    On top of that:
    The FDE-effect (speed/thrust) of AB is simulated in the .air file: table 1524 ('Turbine Afterburner Thrust vs. Mach no').
    So you can make AB thrust depending on Mach speed (which is how it should be); in the current version of the .air file, this is now a flat curve (none, or max). Which could/should be improved.
    Which explains the remark made by 'Expat', about full AB accelleration kicking in even at 200 knots or so. This is indeed not correct.

    Furthermore, in FSX-Accel and up, in the aircraft.cfg you can define a number of AB-stages: varying from first-stage (at a defined 'min-throttle-%) to n-th stage (at '100%-throttle).
    Again, this FDE-effect is independant on how it's visually modelled; either with model-included or external visual .fx effect files.

    To model this AB effect (FDE-wise and visually) properly, I would suggest that this F4 project is intented for FSX-Accel as minimum platform requirement.
    Not just related to AB, but for some other reasons as well (don't get me started on the mis-conception of many FS users that FSX-Accel is just FSX-SP2 + a few added aircraft … LoL )

    Cheers, Rob
    Hi Rob,
    Sorry I missed your post previously, that's some awesome info.

    In my opinion, yes, I think it is in everyone's best interest to optimize for Accel/Steam and above.

    To that end, what would the problem be in doing that for users who do not have Accel?
    Is SP2 enough? (I'm thinking everybody has loaded that, and the only difference between Accel/Steam and SP2 is the lack of the F-18.dll?)

    thanks again for all that you do.

    Tom

    (P.S. I don't understand why I can't reply with quote to your post, the quote isn't showing up. I had to cut and paste it in.)

  23. #298
    Rob, thanks very much for your earlier very clear and helpful explanation. Great to have your know-how on this.
    Striker, listen, and you listen close: flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle, just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.

  24. #299
    it's just the stock FS carrier with some 70's aircraft added by me
    Those are rather cool additions! How did you do that? Could they be added to the WombRaider Kitty Hawk or any carrier? Do you have to use the MDX "blender" to combine the statics and carrier models?
    Striker, listen, and you listen close: flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle, just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.

  25. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by expat View Post
    Those are rather cool additions! How did you do that? Could they be added to the WombRaider Kitty Hawk or any carrier? Do you have to use the MDX "blender" to combine the statics and carrier models?
    I use various AI and old FS9 models that I process in ModelConverterX, then I merge them together (also in ModelConverterX) to form a "deck unit" model that I can add to the carrier formation in AICarriers.

    I don't know the WombRaider Kitty Hawk, but yeah sure, something similar could be done for any carrier.

    Cheers,
    JP
    - Jens Peter "Penz" Pedersen

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