Skin request

[stoney]

Wonder if anyone could anyone do an IDF skin for the Avia S.199 by A.F.Scrub?

[huub vink]

As the texture lay-out is quite simple, it shouldn't be a problem to make one. A quick edit, based on the included Czech texture will not take too long.

I will see what will happens, and when its not done by somebody else, I will do a quick and dirty one this weekend.

Cheers,
Huub

[stoney]

Many thanks Huub.

Steve

[Motormouse]

This one is still available

http://www.flight-replicas.com/S-199.htm

Ttfn

Pete

[Mick]

I have one half done, hope to finish today.

Same one as the photo.

[Mick]

OK, it's finished. It just went up the pipe.

There's a small discontinuity in the rudder stripe that goes partly over the upper end of the trim tab on the left side. I couldn't correct it. Everything I tried just made it worse. It's not very big.

Now it doesn't look like the photo that inspired the skin anymore! But the plane in the photo is a museum piece and air museums are notorious for getting colors and markings wrong. I've seen artwork with the lighter shade, but artists are also notorious for getting colors wrong, or they may have used the museum example as their model.

Of course, the photo that inspired the change is also a museum piece and subject to the same skepticism. But I think that later photo looks more like other pictures I've seen of post-war Czech planes. Anyway, I think the darker and greener shade is more likely correct, so that's what we've got.

[stoney]

Oh man, that's beautiful Mick!

[huub vink]

Thanks Mick Well done!

Cheers,
Huub

[mikezola]

Howdy, Folks-
Yes, that is a nice job on the skin! Just the same, I have a question I would like to throw out there... Sure, I've seen pictures of the remaining Israeli S-199, and it seems to have a base overall color of that light grey. At the same time, some pictures, profiles, and some info sheets for models or decals for this plane call for something they call 'czech grey-green'... does anyone know something about this color? If so, is there an RLM equivalent for it? Is it the right one for schemes like this, or did the IAF paint them this light grey? Color me curious...

-thanks, Mike Z.

[huub vink]

Mike,

Below a picture of one of the surviving Czech Avia S-199 aircraft, which can be found in the Kbely Air museum in Prague. I don't think the colour is a RLM colour, but the colour comes close to RLM76 or RLM84.

There is a lot of contradicting information about the colours from the Israelian S-199 aircraft. In my opinion the most logical is the standard Czech colour which you can see in the picture. However some sources say that the aircraft were painted in RLM02 (German primer) and other sources say the aircraft were painted in the late RLM65 version (light grey).

The applied Czech colour might have changed over the years as the S-199 fighters which went to Israel are from a different type (Earlier) than the aircraft in the museum.

Cheers,
Huub

[Mick]

Howdy, Folks-
Yes, that is a nice job on the skin! Just the same, I have a question I would like to throw out there... Sure, I've seen pictures of the remaining Israeli S-199, and it seems to have a base overall color of that light grey. At the same time, some pictures, profiles, and some info sheets for models or decals for this plane call for something they call 'czech grey-green'... does anyone know something about this color? If so, is there an RLM equivalent for it? Is it the right one for schemes like this, or did the IAF paint them this light grey? Color me curious...

-thanks, Mike Z.

Well, the Israeli aircraft were purchased in a hurry around the start of the war of independence and they were rushed to Israel after hostilities had already begun. I think we can safely assume that they didn't take the time to repaint them. Under the circumstances it's pretty remarkable that they even got the national insignia onto them, never mind the squadron markings.

I think a re-repaint is in order, using the greener base color.

It turned out to be a pretty simple change, and it's finished. I just uploaded the new archive.

Now here's some food for thought. The original photo with the light gray color is a museum example, and air museums are notorious for getting colors and markings wrong. But the photo with the darker greener shade is also a museum piece and must be subject to the same skepticism. Which is right?

All I can say is that the darker, greener shade looks like other photos I've seen of post-war Czech aircraft. But then, maybe they were museum examples with incorrect paint jobs!

If anyone knows for sure, I could easily go back to the lighter shade...

[mikezola]

Hello Again-
Huub, I've seen that picture too- somehow I don't think the photographer got the light right... To add to the confusion, I think Kbely has two of them, the other being maybe a trainer, that have slightly different shades... A decal sheet I saw called it 'light greygreen', and another one called it 'RLM 02-68?' Ah, well, who knows... It's all good... I like these better than the Buchons... Nice work, Mick!

-Thanks again! - Mike Z.

[Hurricane91]

The Avia S-199 by A.F.Scrub is a really nice model. Thank you A.F.
And Mick has already cranked out a fine IAF skin. Thanks Mick.

[Mick]

OK, I'm confused and can't figure it out.

Maybe the S-199s were flown in their original Czech base color, or maybe they were repainted in a lighter color. If so, the repaint may not have been done until after the war of independence. In that case, both colors would be correct for different times.

Since I don't know what to think, I'm uploading a new archive with both versions. It should be available on the download list soon, maybe by the time you read this.

[huub vink]

There is a nice walk around avialable at bf109liar (http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/index1024.htm). On these pictures the S-199 looks a light shade of RLM02, hoever when I look at the covers from the undercarriage, which are in the shadow, the colour is still very greenish. The second S-199 in this museum is painted aluminium dope.

Mick, to end all discussion about the colour, you could also so this scheme for Scrub's model....... (This is the Flight Replica model)

Cheers,
Huub

[stoney]

Thanks for the superb skins Mick, very much appreciated. I had asked about this skin as I had, coincidentally, just finished reading the Leo Nomis book "Desert Hawks" when A.F.Scrubs S-199 was offered. Mr. Nomis, an American volunteer in the IAF during their war of independence in 1948 describes what it was like to fly this aircraft in combat. Thanks to all.

Steve

[Mick]

OK, I think I have an answer. Or maybe it's a partial answer..

Last year I read a really excellent book, Angels In The Sky by Robert Gandt, subtitled How A Band Of Volunteer Airmen Saved The New State of Israel. I read it, was very impressed and passed it on to a friend who I knew would like it as much as I did. The dust cover featured a color photo of a group of guys sitting on and standing around an S-199.

Well, I got so curious, I just went over to my friend's house and looked at the book. Several beers later, I'm back with my book report. The plane in the photo sure looks dark and green! Well, greenish - almost a match for the olive drab fatigues some of the guys are wearing. But while it has the 101 Squadron badge on the nose, it does not have the red tail tip and red & white rudder stripes. Maybe those were applied later, after a repaint into the lighter gray color. Maybe...

Anyhow, here's a picture of the book's dust cover.

And if you like excellent air combat history books, get a copy of Angels In The Sky. Google Shopping can find it for you from many sources, at prices starting well under ten bucks US. It's a great read.

[stoney]

Thanks Mick. I find this subject fascinating. Going to get this book payday (social security check).

[Mick]

Thanks Mick. I find this subject fascinating. Going to get this book payday (social security check).

I'm sure you'll enjoy the book! I've read many articles about the Israeli War of Independence, but the book goes so much deeper into the subject, and it's a heck of a story. And you'll meet some familiar characters, like George "Screwball" Beurling, the leading Canadian ace of WW2, and Chalmers "Slick" Goodlin, who made the early test flights of the Bell X-1.

I suppose I could've just Googled for an image of the cover - as I did when I wanted to post a picture of it - but there's no beer on line. The digital world is so dry! You can say "Siri, get me a beer!" all day and you'll remain thirsty. So first I went to my friend's house to look at the book, hang out for a while and drink some beer.

[huub vink]

This profile states RLM68 was used by the Czechs, however that is quite a dark shade. It is definitely much darker than in this profile!

[afscrub]

Just finished work on the Israël S-199. The undernose radiator is replaced by the latter model's small bulge. I'm using two skins that look good (maybe not 100% authentic but nice anyway). I'll upload the plane one of these days. I hope you'll like it. You find a very interesting URL about the Israël early aircraft on top of the picture. It can be downloaded as a digital library.

[Motormouse]

you could also so this scheme for Scrub's model....... (This is the Flight Replica model)

Cheers,
Huub

Hey Huub, where'd you get that paint from, don't have it on my one...

Ttfn

Pete

[Mick]

Just finished work on the Israël S-199. The undernose radiator is replaced by the latter model's small bulge. I'm using two skins that look good (maybe not 100% authentic but nice anyway). I'll upload the plane one of these days. I hope you'll like it. You find a very interesting URL about the Israël early aircraft on top of the picture. It can be downloaded as a digital library.

I think you might have finally got the color right! At least "as real as it gets" in FlightSim.

I was tempted to try to paint that camouflage scheme but I couldn't summon the time or patience for it.

I hope you'll release the new model soon! I'll be watching for it.

[huub vink]

Hey Huub, where'd you get that paint from, don't have it on my one...

Ttfn

Pete

Pete,

As I don't want to steal this thread, you will find the answer in the screenshot thread.

Cheers,
Huub

[stoney]

Oh gee a. f. scrub I'm looking forward to this one!