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Thread: RFN F-8 Crusader is out!!

  1. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by awstub View Post
    I am modeling the under-wing pylons and I'm in need of a good reference picture.
    How will we attach this to the aircraft? Or is it a Tacpack item?

    It's already been suggested to Sylvain if he is interested.

  2. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Chief View Post
    The Naval Aviation Museum here in Pensacola will be open again on the 18th of May. If you don't have the info you need before then, I can see what the museum has. NC
    That would be great, thanks.
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  3. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckie View Post

    if either of these are of interest I can forward in larger format tomorrow.

    Also have D and E op manual with drawings of pylon and MER and TER
    Thanks Duckie, but those pictures don't quite show the detail I'm in need of.....such as panel lines and rivets.
    I have the "In Detail & Scale", "Squadron Signal" and "Osprey" books but they don't have any good pictures.
    I also have manuals for the the F-8 C, D, E, H and J and all they have are generalized drawings showing the access doors and panel locations.
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  4. #429
    It is for Sylvain.

    Quote Originally Posted by fsafranek View Post
    How will we attach this to the aircraft? Or is it a Tacpack item?

    It's already been suggested to Sylvain if he is interested.
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  5. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by awstub View Post
    It is for Sylvain.
    Okay. I'll go through the books I sent him last year and followup with a list of references.

  6. #431
    Charter Member 2015 delta_lima's Avatar
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    Yeah, good drawings or even photos for the pylons are tough to get. Almost none (that I know of) of the E museum airframes have the pylons fitted, so that makes it an additional challenge. There's buckets of good quality photos of the A-7E wing pylons, so as a Vought manufactured product of at around 5 years or so difference, you could get some cues on details.

    I've got some technical information that may help, but unfortunately my scanner is N/S. I'm working from home, but I could go to the office if absolutely needed and scan there in a few days. If photographing the book pages can help in the interim, I'll do that.

    regards,

    dl

  7. #432

    Ready to go!!

    Well I've been to one World Fair a picnic and a rodeo and that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard come over a set of earphones.

  8. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by delta_lima View Post
    Yeah, good drawings or even photos for the pylons are tough to get. Almost none (that I know of) of the E museum airframes have the pylons fitted, so that makes it an additional challenge. There's buckets of good quality photos of the A-7E wing pylons, so as a Vought manufactured product of at around 5 years or so difference, you could get some cues on details.

    I've got some technical information that may help, but unfortunately my scanner is N/S. I'm working from home, but I could go to the office if absolutely needed and scan there in a few days. If photographing the book pages can help in the interim, I'll do that.

    regards,

    dl

    I can remember installing the real pylons on the F8-C's and the Aero 3 and later Aero 7a missile launchers to the pylons.





  9. #434
    Charter Member 2015 delta_lima's Avatar
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    If I understood Stu's question, he/Sylvain are after E model wing pylons. All the fuselage/cheek pylons have already been modelled, but they're working on getting the E with wing stores.

    If you've got any pics of those, i'm sure they'd be grateful.

    cheers,

    dl

  10. #435
    Something like the bottom picture is what I'm after.....but it's too blurry. I'd really like something that shows the panel lines and rivets.


    Quote Originally Posted by Duckie View Post




    if either of these are of interest I can forward in larger format tomorrow.

    Also have D and E op manual with drawings of pylon and MER and TER
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  11. #436
    This is correct. We only need pictures (or detailed drawings) of the under wing pylons.

    It still needs to be tweaked a little bit, but I have already created the rough model...which is based on a couple of good scale drawings that showed size and shape. Unfortunately, they didn't include panel lines or rivets.








    Quote Originally Posted by delta_lima View Post
    If I understood Stu's question, he/Sylvain are after E model wing pylons. All the fuselage/cheek pylons have already been modeled, but they're working on getting the E with wing stores.

    If you've got any pics of those, i'm sure they'd be grateful.

    cheers,

    dl
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails p9Ei180.jpg   VSfHhWG.jpg  
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  12. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by awstub View Post
    This is correct. We only need pictures (or detailed drawings) of the under wing pylons.

    It still needs to be tweaked a little bit, but I have already created the rough model...which is based on a couple of good scale drawings that showed size and shape. Unfortunately, they didn't include panel lines or rivets.



    A little bit of a wing pylon view




  13. #438
    Although this is an image of a plastic model it looks to be an accurate representation.


    More images here

    https://www.themodellingnews.com/201...tinues-to.html

  14. #439
    Charter Member 2015 delta_lima's Avatar
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    Funny - I was going to post that very plastic scale model picture but I figured that from a research point of view, getting modelling cues from another is a bit unscientific. But I suspect that he rendered that quite well.

    I'm kind of holding my nose doing this, but if we're basing off scale models, this build has some good coverage (and 1 good subject matter photo, albeit only of the first 1' of the pylon)

    https://scalespot.com/onthebench/f8e-eduard/build.htm

    Again, this is kind of "ghetto" to my standards of research, but I'm conceding the dearth of available photography in the orientation and show the detail that's required. I've got mountains of photos of the RF birds, but this one is bleeding me dry. I'm still working so I'll look at home tonight at some of my books.

    EDIT - Stu, looked at those axonometric renderings and from my eye and compared to the photo data, the slope appears a bit too steep and the overall pylon height too tall in relation to the length, and too thick. Certainly the "nose"of the pylon has a much larger radius curvature in both the vertical and horizontal axes than what's seen in photos. They were a fair bit "sharper", not as rounded off.

    Assuming the easiest dimension for you to derive is the wing chord at the pylon placement location, then I'd extrapolate the correct height and length to get (or at least doublecheck) the overall shape / dimension. Again, gauging absolute side view profiles form an axonometric / isometric type drawing can be deceiving, so I could be wrong, but I'm pretty confident regarding the pylon thickness and the "roundedness."

    I just got home and checked against some books/pictures I have and after dinner and a work conference call, I'll digitize and upload. The bad news is no clear photos showing the panel lines, but the grainy photos I can provide roughly corroborate the placement of the panels that the modeler used in the link I provided. They also give decent perspective as to the overall proportions, which I'm hoping will be of assistance.

    I'll post the pics later tonight after I'm done my work.

    dl
    Last edited by delta_lima; May 7th, 2020 at 17:34.

  15. #440
    Thanks, but this is the picture I mentioned earlier.
    If you compare the front of the pylon to the picture of the front couple feet of a real pylon in the one of the VMF(AW)-235pictures here https://scalespot.com/onthebench/f8e-eduard/build.htm you can see that the plastic pylon does not appear to be accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by gray eagle View Post
    Although this is an image of a plastic model it looks to be an accurate representation.


    More images here

    https://www.themodellingnews.com/201...tinues-to.html
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  16. #441
    What I posted is an early "rough" picture so Sylvain could see how it was developing. The height and slope are based on scale drawings, so I'm confident they are correct. The thickness had not been adjusted to the drawings dimensions yet, which is why it looks a bit "funky" ....... I just wanted to show exactly what pylons I'm talking about.

    Navy Chief might be our only hope. Let's see if he can get us some good pictures when he's down at the Naval Aviation Museum.

    Keeping fingers crossed!

    Quote Originally Posted by delta_lima View Post
    Funny - I was going to post that very plastic scale model picture but I figured that from a research point of view, getting modelling cues from another is a bit unscientific. But I suspect that he rendered that quite well.

    I'm kind of holding my nose doing this, but if we're basing off scale models, this build has some good coverage (and 1 good subject matter photo, albeit only of the first 1' of the pylon)

    https://scalespot.com/onthebench/f8e-eduard/build.htm

    Again, this is kind of "ghetto" to my standards of research, but I'm conceding the dearth of available photography in the orientation and show the detail that's required. I've got mountains of photos of the RF birds, but this one is bleeding me dry. I'm still working so I'll look at home tonight at some of my books.

    EDIT - Stu, looked at those axonometric renderings and from my eye and compared to the photo data, the slope appears a bit too steep and the overall pylon height too tall in relation to the length, and too thick. Certainly the "nose"of the pylon has a much larger radius curvature in both the vertical and horizontal axes than what's seen in photos. They were a fair bit "sharper", not as rounded off.

    Assuming the easiest dimension for you to derive is the wing chord at the pylon placement location, then I'd extrapolate the correct height and length to get (or at least doublecheck) the overall shape / dimension. Again, gauging absolute side view profiles form an axonometric / isometric type drawing can be deceiving, so I could be wrong, but I'm pretty confident regarding the pylon thickness and the "roundedness."

    I just got home and checked against some books/pictures I have and after dinner and a work conference call, I'll digitize and upload. The bad news is no clear photos showing the panel lines, but the grainy photos I can provide roughly corroborate the placement of the panels that the modeler used in the link I provided. They also give decent perspective as to the overall proportions, which I'm hoping will be of assistance.

    I'll post the pics later tonight after I'm done my work.

    dl
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  17. #442
    Charter Member 2015 delta_lima's Avatar
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    OK - pics as promised. Some more valuable or helpful than others, but there's a few that show panel lines. I was going to curate and explain each one, but I'm beat and need to eat and get my family stuff sorted. They should speak for themselves.

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  18. #443
    Charter Member 2015 delta_lima's Avatar
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    More pics. The second is strictly a system photo, and not intended to show panel lines proportionately applied.

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  19. #444
    SOH-CM-2020 Duckie's Avatar
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    Wow! d_l lím impressed! You mustíve had a small army surfing the net to find these along with a thesaurus of search terms! I know I searched for a few hours and didnít come close to these.

    Steve
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  20. #445
    I will get down to the museum, once I can gain access. Their website has the following message. I will keep monitoring the site for any changes.....NC

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Museum.jpg  

  21. #446
    Charter Member 2015 delta_lima's Avatar
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    Actually, Duckie, I think the only two "real" pics I found online that the others hadn't already were the ones on that Eduard plastic model page. I was going to post the pics from the armaments link earlier but someone beat me to it. The link itself is actually worth posting, incidentally, as general weapons information on the F-8:

    http://airsoc.com/articles/view/id/5...sader-armament

    Contains some good diagrams showing how the placement of the AIM-9 "Y-pylons" were in fact not mirror images of each other on account of having to give clearance for both the RAT (when deployed) on the right side and the refueling probe blister on the left.

    No, the above photos I digitized last night from my own collection of books. I've been an F-8 fan since I was a kid, and so over the years collected (almost) every published doc. Those came from an assorted collection of Steve Ginter's 4-part collection from the "Naval Fighters" series. They're mostly black and white, and the images are low quality. But they contain much more "off the beaten path" images of the F-8 and the RF-8. So I hang onto them for obscure fact-checking occasions such as this.

    I'm not old enough to have consciously lived through much of the Crusader era. But it started when I used to live in Montreal as a kid, and we'd holiday down to the US East Coast. I recall attending an air show down in New Jersey and seeing a static and later flypast of the one plane that truly captivated me. It looked older, somehow, than the F-4s that seemed to get all the attention. Though it looked like an older plane, it had been recently repainted to a subdued grey. Funny square windows along the bottom and underneath that made no sense. Sitting squat on the ground, and with wings tipped backward, it looked almost comical. But when it taxied and took off, I was hooked. Recalling back, I'm guessing it was a recently repainted VFP-206 bird. Wish I could have convinced Dad to take a picture earlier. But with only 1 roll worth 24 shots of 35mm in his old Practika camera, he had already blown through it. An ironic start to an interest in aerial photo-reconnaissance, no?

    And so my love for the Crusader, with the emphasis on the photo birds, began.

    Anyway - sorry for my digression. I hope the pylon pics help. They're pretty crappy, but they're all I have.

    dl

  22. #447
    Charter Member 2015 delta_lima's Avatar
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    Regarding the great paints by Duckie and DaveQ, and the others, where the IRST housing and seeker were both the black, is there a way to fix these now that the housing and the head itself appear to be two different textures?

    Because now the seeker is black and the housing is untextured.

    Thanks,

    dl

  23. #448
    SOH-CM-2020 Duckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta_lima View Post
    Regarding the great paints by Duckie and DaveQ, and the others, where the IRST housing and seeker were both the black, is there a way to fix these now that the housing and the head itself appear to be two different textures?

    Because now the seeker is black and the housing is untextured.

    Thanks,

    dl
    The housing is the same color as the anti-glare panel. Not sure what the head was actually made of but its appearance resembled a dark metallic colored glass surface. The texture for that surface in v1.2 is mapped on the fuse1 texture. Iíve tried to capture that look in my last 2 paints but havenít been very successful thus far.
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  24. #449
    You are right - the sensor tip is essentially glass, much like a sidewinder, Walleye, other special seeker missiles. If you stand in front of these you can see some of the innerds of the particular head.

  25. #450
    Charter Member 2015 delta_lima's Avatar
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    Hi Duckie,

    I've narrowed the issue. For some reason your repaints (eg: VMF-212) work fine, but Dave's (eg: eg: VF-24) doesn't. The tubular housing remains greyish/white.

    Strange, because his screenshots show the housing itself as the black - like you mention the same colour as the glare shield.

    Maybe I'll reach out to him.

    dl
    Last edited by delta_lima; May 9th, 2020 at 20:35.

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