Supermarine Spitfire PR XI update/enhanced for Fs9 - Page 2
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Thread: Supermarine Spitfire PR XI update/enhanced for Fs9

  1. #26

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by anels9 View Post
    Did chris ever do any p-51s shessi ?
    Hi A,
    No, not a P51. TBH there are loads of P51's to choose from. From payware to Fs9 specific, or converted from CFS2...enough I think!

    Cheers

    Shessi

  2. #27

    Pretty slim selection of the Allison powered versions Shessi.

    "Illegitimum non carborundum".

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  3. #28
    Hey shessi, any more wonderful spits in the works?

  4. #29

    Icon13

    Noooooo....sorry

    There are enough Spits out there as well.......lol

    Cheers

    Shessi

  5. #30
    Lovely model,but I find the flight dynamics are pretty wild,Real Air's Griffon Spits are easier
    to handle.

    The bigger rudder fitted to the XI(based on the VIII fuselage)actually raises the cross wind component to 12kts
    as opposed to 9kts with the "original" rudder,so should have better authority,this doesn't seem to be the case here.
    Bootfuls and slight trim of right rudder are normally enough with a Merlin Spit,but this thing is wild and very,very difficultto keep straight(you should only need +4-6 boost at about 2850-2900 RPM)to get off

    The aileron authority on take-off(you hold full right until the speed comes up)seems over sensitive once she lifts off.

    I only did a quick test with it,I'll take it on a better cross country and up to high altitude to see if the Merlin's
    (should be a 70 series)2 speed 2 stage blower works as it should(at about 12-14 thousand feet).

  6. #31

    Hi Miggers,
    Hear what you say. I appreciate you'er just mentioning this, but a couple of things...the Real Air Spit is from a professional software company, and you pay for their products. Both Chris and myself are not ac.cfg or airfile experts, so it is difficult to get the ac to act totally as should be, it will always be a rough-timate of true performance.

    So, several ways round this, collate the correct parameters and get someone who could input your data...or get yer finger out and do one yourself...

    I would love to have more realistic airfiles/ac.cfg's.

    Cheers

    Shessi

  7. #32

    Virtual versus real

    Absolutely spot on Shessi. To produce reality using a PC running a now historic piece of 32 Bit programming like FS9 is not possible. REAL AIR is the only team that produces 'Wow' from real pilots who fly some of the a/c in my PC. They are the only air files that allow you to do a side-slip on finals in a cross-wind situation. Wings of Power now A2A, produced a lot of piston engined a/c that 'flew by the numbers' ie all of the cockpit instruments read the right figures for that particular engine in that particular flight regime. Flight modelling was also good but nowhere near REAL AIR.

    Sometimes (well almost all of the time) I feel that I have never left the stage of the little boy holding the model a/c at arms length and imagining it swooping through the air in real life. Of course its not reality - but then in our current all pervasive virtual worlds - what is?

    Thanks again Shessi for keeping the faith.

    Mal

  8. #33
    I do understand what you're saying and you are correct.

    Sorting cfg's aren't my bag at all but,I do know a couple of bods who are excellent at sorting air.cfg's out to get them really,really close if not spot on,even on fs.9.

    If you guys are ok with it,I'll have a word and see what can be done to "tune" her up.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Miggers View Post
    Lovely model,but I find the flight dynamics are pretty wild,Real Air's Griffon Spits are easier
    to handle.

    The bigger rudder fitted to the XI(based on the VIII fuselage)actually raises the cross wind component to 12kts
    as opposed to 9kts with the "original" rudder,so should have better authority,this doesn't seem to be the case here.
    Bootfuls and slight trim of right rudder are normally enough with a Merlin Spit,but this thing is wild and very,very difficultto keep straight(you should only need +4-6 boost at about 2850-2900 RPM)to get off

    The aileron authority on take-off(you hold full right until the speed comes up)seems over sensitive once she lifts off.

    I only did a quick test with it,I'll take it on a better cross country and up to high altitude to see if the Merlin's
    (should be a 70 series)2 speed 2 stage blower works as it should(at about 12-14 thousand feet).
    Morning...

    You can adjust the controls effectiveness in the Flight Tuning section of aircraft.cfg (typical one reproduced below)
    increase the number for more effectiveness , decrease for less.

    Each full number ie changing
    Code:
     rudder_effectiveness=1.0
    to
    Code:
     rudder_effectiveness=2.0
    makes the rudder 10 times more effective than
    Code:
     rudder_effectiveness=1.0
    , so try adjusting the increments
    in 0.2 to say
    Code:
     rudder_effectiveness=1.2
    etc.

    Code:
    [flight_tuning]
    cruise_lift_scalar=1.0 
    parasite_drag_scalar=1.0 
    induced_drag_scalar=1.0 
    elevator_effectiveness=1.0 
    aileron_effectiveness=1.0 
    rudder_effectiveness=1.0 
    pitch_stability=1.0 
    roll_stability=1.0 
    yaw_stability=1.0 
    elevator_trim_effectiveness=1.0 
    aileron_trim_effectiveness=1.0 
    rudder_trim_effectiveness=1.0 
    p_factor_on_yaw =1.0
    torque_on_roll =1.0
    gyro_precession_on_yaw =1.0 
    gyro_precession_on_pitch = 1.0
    hi_alpha_on_roll =1.0
    hi_alpha_on_yaw =1.0
    gyro_precession_on_roll =1.0

    ttfn

    Pete

  10. #35
    Thanks Pete.

    I've got the "numbers" for the XI,so I'll have another go and see where we get before fiddling.

    I'll have a word with a few tweakers once I've tested it and had a looksee at the cfg's to see
    if they can "fine tune" anymore.

  11. #36

    Thanks MM, and good stuff M......this is what is needed in simming, co-operation and team effort.

    Cheers

    Shessi

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Shessi View Post
    Thanks MM, and good stuff M......this is what is needed in simming, co-operation and team effort.

    Cheers

    Shessi
    Magoo and I worked on Nigel's Avro Tutor with the air and cfg files .... I used my RW experience to get it to how I liked it ,within the confines of Microsoft programming... then Magoo dialled that into the .air file

    ttfn

    Pete

  13. #38
    Right MM,you might have a job on your hands if my contact can't manage a go at it.............

    Okay,I've taken it for a better sortie earlier,up for nearly and hour out of RAF Cosford.


    I used modern civvy power/rpm/trim settings for an a/c that isn't fitted for combat service.

    PR.XI's had the leading edge tanks and a Merlin 70 fitted,I see from the FDE we have a Merlin 63 and just the
    standard two fuel tanks ahead of the cockpit.
    Both PL965 and '983 have no l/e tanks,but both have a Merlin 70 fitted,pretty much the only other differences are that '965 has a "fighter"windscreen,'983 has the correct curved PR screen making '983 just that little bit more "slippery"(the Spit XI was a very aerodynamically smooth aeroplane as Spitfires go)

    Fuel load was 50%,pilot(bit of a fatboy)/payload was 200lbs.

    Brakes off started with +4 boost and 3000 rpm and a couple of notches on the rudder trim,opening up to +6 as the speed came up to 50+kts ,the swing is more catchable using that technique,unstick at about 95,u/c up and hood shut at 100',come back to +4 and 2400revs gets you a nice ROC at about 1500 fpm,pretty much on the money there.

    Cruise settings are +2 and 1850 gives 200kts/230mph,again pretty much on the money



    Elevator trim is extremely sensitive,Spits are supposed to be easy to trim out hands off,but this thing porpoises
    about between +500 and -500 feet .
    The cockpit trim wheel doesn't seem to move and has no effect.

    Apart from that,general handling isn't bad.

    Flying the circuit and approach though......(it does sideslip BTW).

    The PR.XI being pretty slippery,(around 10-15kts faster than a IX across the speed range),tends to fly the circuit abit faster than say a Mk.IX or VIII,so normally the boost/prop revs have to be set a bit lower with the run and break at -1 boost and 2000 rpm to come down below the 160 kt limit
    for flap and u/c extension,then down to -4 and 2000 rpm for the circuit which should give you 120kts for the turn onto finals then once you've turned in to get down to 85 for touch down.

    That isn't the case here,I had to use -1 to +1 boost to maintain 105kts on finals to touch down just past the keys,
    Spits can and will float a bit,but this has a fair rate of sink(drag/lift scalar?).

    Three points do give a nice "Spitfire Bounce" though.

    Also,why has it incremental flaps with a horrid grinding sound? Spit flaps are air operated and are either up or down.
    The oleos need stiffening up a bit too,it wobbles about on the ground like a drunk,but,but,above 12k the boost
    doesn't drop off,so the two speed two stage blower is working correctly.

    That's all for now folks.

  14. #39
    Miggers,

    Flap increments are tied to the animations set by whomever made / makes the model. So unless one has source code for the model, the visuals are pretty fixed.

    You can tweak the .cfg file to only have one flap setting,
    for "flight effect" , but visuals will still follow what modeller has set.

    Sounds follow what has been set in the sound.cfg file,
    if no sound is set, then default graunch sound is played.
    You could always replace the complete sound folder with the one from Real Air (or a n other ) if that's more to your taste.

    You could add wing tanks as a payload station,
    given fwd/aft , left/right and up/down coordinates from
    the model datum position. Again, datum position is something set during model build (and often bears no relation to where the actual datum point is on real aeroplane just as an fyi) so locating the datum is a problem...

    However....

    Theres a tutorial by Milton Shupe, on how to adjust model
    "contact points" to stiffen up gear; you can use same principle outlined there to locate the wing tanks and get the coordinates for the payload station.

    For .air files, Magoo (James Banks) is the one to approach


    Be careful though....this tweeking can get addictive!

    Ttfn

    Pete

  15. #40

    FAO Shessi

    I've been having a fiddle around with the aircraft.cfg file (see attached zip)

    so ....changed the gear damping; changed flaps deploy speed (Spit flaps are fast)
    tweeked rudder and elev trim effectiveness, given it correct 1565 HP per

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-...erlin#Variants


    • Merlin 61 (RM 8SM)

    1,565 hp (1,170 kW) at 3,000 rpm at 12,250 ft (3,734 m), 1,390 hp (1,035 kW) at 3,000 rpm at 23,500 ft (7,163 m); fitted with a new two-speed two-stage supercharger providing increased power at medium to high altitudes; +15 psi boost; used in Spitfire F Mk.IX, and P.R Mk.XI.[107] First British production variant to incorporate two-piece cylinder blocks designed by Rolls-Royce for the Packard Merlin.[108] Reduction gear ratio .42:1, with gears for pressurisation pump.[109] First production Merlin 61, 2 March 1942.



    Attachment 76082


    Bit of an issue with weight and balance ; at the moment the cfg file thinks all the fuel and pilot are sitting in same location (on datum point), and compared to John Dibbs' book, the empty and max weights are wrong too...ho hum..
    so... if you can give me a pointer where the model datum point is , I'll have a bash at that too

    ttfn

    Pete
    Last edited by Motormouse; May 11th, 2020 at 10:58.

  16. #41
    Cheers for all that Pete,pretty interesting reading.

    Whenever I've been beta or pre beta testing(I used to do it a lot..)I've just done the "test flying",reported on
    a particular part of the envelope and then passed my thoughts onto the relevant people for adjustments
    and then whatever has come back to me for re-testing,hence my lack of skills in "tweaking".

    I can however "tweak" a sound package,I'll have a go and see if I can get this Merlin to sound like a 60/70 series.

    BTW,I asked about hangar information over on CBFS forums and a "Motormouse" replied.
    Wouldn't be you would it Pete?

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Miggers View Post

    BTW,I asked about hangar information over on CBFS forums and a "Motormouse" replied.
    Wouldn't be you would it Pete?
    Yes, I get around a bit.
    The much missed DaveB was also a regular here too.

    Ttfn


    Pete

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