Decision made Cfs-3/4 dev going forward.
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Thread: Decision made Cfs-3/4 dev going forward.

  1. #1

    Decision made Cfs-3/4 dev going forward.

    Hi Guys.

    So after talking to my managers and experimenting with the sim for 6 months or more the decision was made to invest in the cfs3 upgrade.
    I'm committed to finishing the Aeronca and Ford tri motor for p3d and fsx, so as soon as those are finished I will start on the rebuild.

    Some assets of cfs3 will remain as they are still pretty good but most if not all models in the game will be replaced, and land class and sky environment will be upgraded.

    Right now I have a few people researching what has been done to the sim so we can look at that and if we can improve on it. If not we will put links to that upgrade on the cr1 site or ask for permission to host it on our site as part of the up grade or just simply buy out the developer on that one thing and then use it, but it has to be top shelf for me to do that.

    I will say more as we get into the build and I will post news often once the project starts. That will be the day after the Ford Tri-Motor release for 3PD.

    So to fund this development, I will release the elements like planes for p3d and fsx as well as cfs3 and they will be at those sims level, like my Tri-Motor. Bigger things for cfs3 like the land class upgrade will be put up for low cost to you.

    It will take some doing but if I can generate a small community for this sim then I will just stay in it and add more and more as time goes on.

    Right now It runs perfectly in WINDOWSX and I'm doing shaders and experimenting with the environment to see what water looks best.

    If you have suggestions pm me if you like.

    Thanks!!
    Cr1-Software.Ltd
    www.cr1-software.com

    Your source for fine Flight Simulation enhancements!

  2. #2
    SOH-CM-2020 mongoose's Avatar
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    So is this going to be very different from say, WOTR, which still of course used the CFS3 engine, and in fact much of the same architecture? I think to generate any enthusiasm, especially as it will be pw, You will have to flesh out your plan in a way that also makes sense to those less familiar with programming and design terminology. So far it's all a bit vague IMHO. If you really can bring CFS3 into the 3rd decade of the 21st century, that would be great!

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  3. #3
    Let's be clear here. I said upgrade not new game. I also said lm still developing for p3d and fsx. I'm not going to redevelop the wheel.

    Yes it is possible to upgrade cfs3 to today's standards and I am going personally to Microsoft to ask for permission and source files to do so.

    If I was going to make a all new combat sim I would use the starlight game engine and use the real world function in it and just build a all new combat sim.

    The upgrade will have all new models. Like the tiger tank that we built to test in cfs3. It is on the level of world of tanks....so you can run around doing tank battles if you like.

    I'm not going to blow away millions on this maybe 200 k on cash as I need to do that anyways for tax purposes as cr1 did very well in its contracting over the last few years.

    But yes cfs3 will be dramatically improved

    Think like this.. stock cfs3 planes at 100k poly count....new ones to replace that crap....7 million poly planes....set the game to run from gpu and not cpu. Ask ms to allow cr1 to upgrade to dx11 or higher. Expand texture mapping to as high as 5000x5000 new mesh and as well as lighting upgrades.
    High def sounds..effects over haul. Shadow over haul new looking interface....

    So now do you get the picture?


  4. #4
    You should be talking to AnKor...
    US Army, Major, Ret.

    Service To The Line,
    On The Line,
    On Time

    US Army Ordnance Corps.

  5. #5
    SOH-CM-2020 mongoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas J Wood View Post
    Let's be clear here. I said upgrade not new game. I also said lm still developing for p3d and fsx. I'm not going to redevelop the wheel.

    Yes it is possible to upgrade cfs3 to today's standards and I am going personally to Microsoft to ask for permission and source files to do so.

    I ..............................

    But yes cfs3 will be dramatically improved

    Think like this.. stock cfs3 planes at 100k poly count....new ones to replace that crap....7 million poly planes....set the game to run from gpu and not cpu. Ask ms to allow cr1 to upgrade to dx11 or higher. Expand texture mapping to as high as 5000x5000 new mesh and as well as lighting upgrades.
    High def sounds..effects over haul. Shadow over haul new looking interface....

    So now do you get the picture?

    That's clearer. Thanks.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  6. #6
    I'm not sure what I can contribute here
    A team with an access to the source code will make most of my work obsolete.

  7. #7
    Kurier auf Stube...pauke! NachtPiloten's Avatar
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    Icon5 Perspective

    I maybe the lone ranger here but making the game look prettier is nice and having models that are in high detail is ok if all you care about is appearance. Sure anyone can make high poly models by adding nuts bolts, highly detailed radial engines and other stuff, but then all you have is a nice looking set of models chasing each other.

    Heck once you are in the cockpit and 100 meters away from your enemy external detail of their plane is extraneous; IMHO what really matters is the functionality and appearance of your plane's cockpit and flight characteristics, damage profiles etc. In a dogfight really don't have much time or purpose in admiring the details on your target's plane.

    So to me, and only me, if the flight models are not improved a bit, AI is made like say IL2 or WOFF, we get radio navigation, real three dimensional radar, guided rockets, revised damage models so multi-engined planes are modeled correctly, better effects, the same gauge flexibility as FSX, etc then so what. Heck, CFS4 was to (to my knowledge from folks on the development team) have all these features.

    I hope that you address all what I have mentioned and that anyone can modify the sim without having to pay or get permission to add things.

    My thoughts maybe a little direct but we are among friends....

  8. #8
    Nope it won't. I could really use some of your time as you know alot more then I do about cfs3. Could I contact you in the coming days?

    I can build anything but I need to keep the pipe line stream lined as well. So your insight and experience would help me alot.
    Thanks for posting!
    Cr1-Software.Ltd
    www.cr1-software.com

    Your source for fine Flight Simulation enhancements!

  9. #9
    Thomas J Wood, you can send me a PM here. I don't post frequently but I visit this forum quite often.
    However I'm really an amateur (my professional skills are .NET and SQL ) just doing what I find interesting and coincidentally enhancing CFS3 features.

    And to be honest I agree with NachtPiloten: graphics and 3D model upgrades are nice to have, but that's not what CFS3 needs the most.

  10. #10
    SOH-CM-2020 mongoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NachtPiloten View Post
    I maybe the lone ranger here but making the game look prettier is nice and having models that are in high detail is ok if all you care about is appearance. Sure anyone can make high poly models by adding nuts bolts, highly detailed radial engines and other stuff, but then all you have is a nice looking set of models chasing each other.

    Heck once you are in the cockpit and 100 meters away from your enemy external detail of their plane is extraneous; IMHO what really matters is the functionality and appearance of your plane's cockpit and flight characteristics, damage profiles etc. In a dogfight really don't have much time or purpose in admiring the details on your target's plane.

    So to me, and only me, if the flight models are not improved a bit, AI is made like say IL2 or WOFF, we get radio navigation, real three dimensional radar, guided rockets, revised damage models so multi-engined planes are modeled correctly, better effects, the same gauge flexibility as FSX, etc then so what. Heck, CFS4 was to (to my knowledge from folks on the development team) have all these features.

    I hope that you address all what I have mentioned and that anyone can modify the sim without having to pay or get permission to add things.

    My thoughts maybe a little direct but we are among friends....

    I would agree; and certainly true for night time!

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  11. #11
    I think that was well put Ted, and indeed, all is meant in a friendly tone here. I am very much interested in what may come of this project, and I hope that some core improvements, such as AI (better landings, enemies that withdraw from a battle intelligently rather than fighting to the death every time, boom and zoom tactics, etc), aircraft systems/flight dynamics are priorities. Also, I hope that it will retain the same moddability that we have enjoyed thus far, and that existing and in-progress add-ons will be compatible with the core engine improvements. For myself, the reason I still fly CFS3 almost two decades after it came out is that I can change things I don't like and set them up how I want to. If I can't do that with the new version I will probably keep on with what we have here, I have too many hours invested and am making some really interesting (at least to me) progress.

  12. #12
    I'm with you guys on this one, I could reverse engineer that thing and take off and probably get away with it until it made a million bucks...LOL!
    That is the number the big guys usually show up at the door over.

    I have the blessing of my family to go forward with this. So I just came from a meeting with Nvidea and a few other game companies were there. DX9C will be supported indefinitely and so will OS systems from win7 onward. So good news on that front.

    Windows X isn't to bad you just need to know where to stick the game and how to set it up. We will make the install do all of that for you.


    Right now I am real excited to get going, sometime this week end I will speak with AnKor. I cant wait to meet him, been reading about his work for years. Going to be cool!

    Its a lot of work this project but its home for me, I started in CFS1 and I'm coming full circle, you always come home at some point in your life.

    I'm happy to be here too.
    Cr1-Software.Ltd
    www.cr1-software.com

    Your source for fine Flight Simulation enhancements!

  13. #13
    Ankor is great, and has pretty much single-handedly moved this sim forward by over a decade. He's also been extremely helpful in supporting some of the work I've been doing by building new features into his shaders that I've been able to utilize in my own work. I'll be interested to hear how things progress.

  14. #14
    Really Woody, you are making another announcement about upgrading CFS3> You've done it before, and we have never seen anything come of it. Why do you keep doing this? These guys who replied to this thread, have done tons of work to make CFS3, along with a host of others. The difference between you and them, they produce stuff for everyone through hard work. They don't come in here making false promises, they actually do it. Like I said, you have done it before, nothing comes of it, so I would take it with a grain of salt. Hate seeing him do this, build up the hopes of these guys and deliver nothing. So Woody, instead of talking about it. DO IT. Or stop jerking these guys around. Microsoft will never give you their code and you know it. Reverse engineer any of their properties, and they find out about it, they will bury you in court. These are a lot of us old timers around here who have seen you do this before, and we can't believe you are doing it again, and blowing so much smoke again. Put up or shut up Woody, you are making a fool of yourself, and you can't even see it. Pretty sad.

  15. #15
    Member sixstrings5859's Avatar
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    Come on eddie. Let's be nice. All this takes time. I'm really excited to see were this all leads. All for new improvements to CFS3. Can't wait to see the end product. Regards,Scott

  16. #16
    I myself would welcome any wholesale improvement to the existing format, but more so in the realm of realism. Eye candy is nice and WOTR has done a fine job in that area IMHO

  17. #17
    I don't think anybody is really being jerked around. We've all seen some people show up out of nowhere with big plans and are never show any evidence that anything is happening, though I don't recall any of it being from this guy. Makes no difference to me, I've got my own projects that I am happy with. If something does come of this I'll be glad to see it, and I'm glad he's taking input from the community at an early stage. If nothing happens - no loss.

  18. #18
    mornin ya'all.

    Just stumbled upon this thread, its interesting, given the fact I have the beginnings of this project on hd now!
    I beta test for Thomas and his company Cr1 I also beta for Blizzard, Ubi Soft, Sony and others. I had help getting this opportunity and its not as fun as you would think....

    Reason he makes announcements like this is because of his passion, I have never seen someone so passionate about a g-dam game in my life, and he gets batted around and abused and told he is irrelevant and on and on.

    I will tell you why he sometimes dosn't deliver. I have known him from his birth.His father was my best friend, even though he was a Canuck, dam good pilot(flew CF104's) and a damn good man! God bless. Im 70 + years old and know the kid well.

    Thomas holds 4 masters degrees, all in computer s**t (and he still dose typo's HAHA!). He has a computer science masters and a game developers masters. As well as other crap I have no idea about.

    He is extreeeemmllyy talented, but he is overly passionate. You cant have both. He is a little unbalanced and has trouble staying on track. But his new wife has him stream lined and settled down and he has actually started this project.

    Another reason is that he is very good at what he dose so he gets picked up for huge projects by the biggest game development companies around, they pay him huge money for his work, so what would you do? Develop a game or revamp an old irrelevant game that was junk in the first place for a bunch of old farts with tight wallets and big wants only to make a few hundred dollars...or go spend the same amount of time and build on new games like Assassins Creed, Destiny 2, Doom, World Of Warcraft and many others for like 400k a contract... you tell me where you would go...honestly get real fella.

    Some information warranted here, He is now retired, settled down and is BORED to DEATH!

    And... you have not noticed and from that comment you have not, he is about to release 4 over the top add ons, his site is being rebuilt and he now has time to build on his hobby, and fella it is strictly a hobby to him. He dose charge for it but he honestly dose not care if one unit sells, his wife demands he sells it and she sets the pricing. Her reason being 1000 hours on a add on to get maybe 17 appreciates on a forum is bull for a guy at his level and honestly I have to say she sees it right btw.. so she has him at least make something back for the time he spends on this and away from his family, which just lost a young member btw.

    So cool it and appreciate your designers whether they are freeware or pay ware...no one is getting rich here...not in this racket.

    I'm not being ornery just giving insight.

    So for this project I can tell you that at this point he has it running perfect and installing on Windows 10, no errors and no problems. He is experimenting with a newer DX to see if that could be done with out going to MS for help. No he wont reverse engineer anything, he jokes around a lot but would not do that.

    He knows Ms very well, he is in there in two weeks over a game patent he owns and they have a good relationship.
    so cool yer rockets there fella.

    Fly safe.

  19. #19
    Kurier auf Stube...pauke! NachtPiloten's Avatar
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    Oooppps!

    never indented to stoke the coals here - just voiced my opinion and heartfelt love for this sim. If Tommy can deliver all the best - charging for it well his time our decision whether to buy. Would it be an option Tom to ask for CFS4 source code and the work there since it is 15 yrs old and well what use is it to MS now. If it is a good as the folks who worked on it said it was maybe the best place to start since it is said to have nealry allthe bugs worked out and the features we loved in CFS2, and the best of CFS3.

    Seriously, if MS will listen to you IMHO best route forward - build on what MS did and make it 2020.

    Again I never intended to make the embers into flames

  20. #20
    Was not intended for you my friend, But A few posts up.

    Also Thomas is this guy

    https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the...ood/1114988832

    The kid is busy as hell and touring this book all the time. He has a new one coming up about the shadow government that is really the 3rd Reich and its pretty good. Penguin has signed him for that one already.

    So he is busy as all get out.

  21. #21
    I'm definitely Interested, and hope this see's the light of day!

  22. #22
    Yikes!

    No flames please.

    Yeah Edd is right... in my younger days I would say stuff because I could do it and just thought "Hey I can do that" and I could and can, but I always made the mistake of estimating time. I'm old now so that is driven out of my system. Mainly because when you contract to say Bungie or some one you get your butt sued off for not completing things on time, at the very minimum a $5000.00 per week penalty for every week you are late on delivery..so you just get it done!

    I'm just looking for a place to settle in and just enjoy the rest of my short life that is in front of me and do something fun instead of being driven to get rich and make as much as possible.I have done that...its not all that its cracked up to be. Good family, friends, health and conscience is where it is at.

    This looks to be a nice fit and if I can do it that would be great. I know I can but I have to stay within legal boundaries as well.

    So some of the things you guys suggested could be possible with custom made dll's that could manipulate the engine from out side the game engine, that keeps me clear of trouble and could possibly work. I will experiment and Time will tell.

    I do have a meeting with the big guys over some thing soon I will see about cfs 4 I don't think they will let that go though, the assets are still worth a lot for new games related or not. But I will ask.

    Thanks all!
    Cr1-Software.Ltd
    www.cr1-software.com

    Your source for fine Flight Simulation enhancements!

  23. #23
    @eddie: I completelly agree with you! words, words and just words, thast all what it is, a big bubble.

  24. #24
    Kurier auf Stube...pauke! NachtPiloten's Avatar
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    Icon22 Thought

    Tommy,

    Just a thought. Since there is a bit of skepticism about the veracity of your intentions, throw us a bone. You said "maybe could be done with dll's" if so what about making one for lets say Lorenz (with gauges of course) for those of us flying at night would be cool to approach a base with this working to get us on the glide path all proper. Or a solid 3 axis radar with gauges say like the Lichtenstein 202 BC. I know it will cost you time, effort, and money but good will goes a long way around here.

  25. #25
    Agree with the first Nachtpiloten comment above, responses sound good.

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