Vive la France! Amiot 143M bomber is available!
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Thread: Vive la France! Amiot 143M bomber is available!

  1. #1

    Vive la France! Amiot 143M bomber is available!

    Hi Folks,
    Been working on lots of projects, it's winter you know!, and this one is nearly there, just being tested, and few bits to do.

    It's based on an IL-2 model, which was based on Paul Clawson's Amiot, further detailed, a new VC, animations and versions etc.

    Cheers

    Shessi
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Amiot 143M 1.jpg   Amiot 143M 2.jpg   Amiot 143M 3.jpg   Amiot 143M 4.jpg   Amiot 143M 5.jpg   Amiot 143M 6.jpg  

    Amiot 143M 7.jpg  

  2. #2
    So ugly - who can resist, I love ugly. Looking forward to this.
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  3. #3
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Its an ugly plane, but a beautiful model. As we now know how it all ended, we can hardly understand that people once believed in aircraft like this.......

    Cheers,
    Huub

  4. #4

    Icon22 Reply...

    Mark,

    I'm using an older but serviceable version for the Battle of France that UncleTgt cleaned up for me. It looks like after the campaign package's release, I'll be making an upgrade!
    "Rami"

    "Me? I'm just a Sea of Tranquility in an Ocean of Storms, babe."

    My campaign site: http://www.box.net/shared/0k1e1rz29h
    My missions site: http://www.box.net/shared/ueh4kazk3v
    My scenery site: http://www.box.net/shared/knb1l0ztobhs2esb14rb

  5. #5
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    The French have made the most ugly planes, so much so, that they become quite cute, in a French kind of way!
    Robin
    Cape Town, South Africa

  6. #6
    SOH-CM-2020 Mick's Avatar
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    It looks like a flying ... something or other, anyway not an airplane within the usual meaning of the term.

    Anyway, I love it!

    But I can see why la France didn't exactly Vive with an air force full of these!

  7. #7
    It looks more like a flying Pullman railway carriage, im imagining a cocktail bar, a guy in a bow tie serving drinks and a piano in the corner, anything but a warplane. Looking forward to flying it though

  8. #8
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Aircraft like this, the Farman F.222.2 and the Bloch MB.200 were all product from the modernisation projects from the late 20-ties and early 30-ties. They were already obsolete when the war began. But France had nice looking aircraft as well I think the LeO.451 was nice looking aircraft and quite modern at the start of the war. The Dewoitine D.520 is also a quite neat looking aircraft. But as France couldn't produce enough aircraft for a second modernisation run, they went abroad for aircraft like the Boston, Maryland, Curtiss H75 Hawk,....... they even bought the Koolhoven FK.58!

    Cheers,
    Huub

  9. #9
    Top of the plane looks like a normal bomber, then you look underneath and you see that gondola that looks like it belongs on an airship. But still a cool plane... and I like those huge wheel pants.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by zswobbie1 View Post
    The French have made the most ugly planes, so much so, that they become quite cute, in a French kind of way!
    My thoughts as well.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TARPSBird View Post
    Top of the plane looks like a normal bomber, then you look underneath and you see that gondola that looks like it belongs on an airship. But still a cool plane... and I like those huge wheel pants.
    Or the gondola looks like a sun porch on a Victorian home! Definitely trying this in FSX to see how it works as I like the unusual!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Moses03 View Post
    My thoughts as well.
    Hi,
    If I believe the US models of the 30s, I am not sure that your comments are devoid of misplaced chauvinism.
    For me, the B26 peashooter is the symbol of ugliness. You only have to compare it to the contemporary French Dewoitine D500.
    The Amiot 143 is in the aesthetic standard of the 30s, not as ugly as its British or US contemporaries. You lack references.
    I could quote some contemporaries to the Amiot 143 if you want!

    JMC

  13. #13

    Vive la France! Amiot 143M bomber nearly ready..

    Oula Gaston, du calme,
    faut admettre que il ne manque que l inscription "campagnie des Wagon Lits"
    ou "Wagon Bar SNCF".
    These comments should not be to make you upset.
    We all know that in every country there have been planes with a look to be discutable.
    When I look on my german side aie aie il y en a pas mal aussi.
    On the other side we all now about some french planes which where realy fine and real beauties.
    And those who are interested in history know that in france after the declaration of war the unions did declare strike
    which blocked completely the french war production in a crucial moment. That having as effect that new and modern planes did not came to the fighting units.
    Alors, il n y avait rien de chauvin dans ces commentaires chers Gaston
    Prenez un bon whisky (il y en a du tres bon breton) and keep on laughing
    We all honore the french pilots who did fight very courageous
    Yours
    Papi

  14. #14
    JMC-

    I posted that with a smile.

    Ask any of my FS friends, they will all tell you how much I like the French designs of the 1930's. The Couzinets are some of my favorites!

    http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...l=1#post888019

    Just recently I was wishing for one of these French beauties:

    http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...=1#post1203505

    And here I am piloting a Farman F223.4 on a 9.5 hour flight for an event hosted over at Flightsim a couple of years ago:

    https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showt...r-Holkham-2015



    Best,
    Kevin


    Shessi- Sorry for the diversion. Looking forward to the Amiot.


    Quote Originally Posted by gastonj View Post
    Hi,
    If I believe the US models of the 30s, I am not sure that your comments are devoid of misplaced chauvinism.
    For me, the B26 peashooter is the symbol of ugliness. You only have to compare it to the contemporary French Dewoitine D500.
    The Amiot 143 is in the aesthetic standard of the 30s, not as ugly as its British or US contemporaries. You lack references.
    I could quote some contemporaries to the Amiot 143 if you want!

    JMC

  15. #15
    Hi,
    Sorry, I'm a little tired of the usual French bashing. Do not think that the French bombing consisted mainly of these obsolete planes. Only about fifty were in service for the night bombing and painted black. The legend of the Amiot 143 comes from the day attack on German ships bridges on the river Meuse near Sedan around May 18, 1940. I think I read that only 4 planes attacked the objective. One was shot down by the Flak. The French day bombardment mainly included Breguet 691 to 695, Lioré et Olivier Léo 451, a few number of Amiot 354 and from May 1940 a quite big number of US Martin 167F (Glenn for the French, Maryland for RAF) and Douglas DB7 equipment. To this is added the equipment of the Naval Aviation Loire-Nieuport 401 and 411 as well as Vought 156F (Vindicator). This Amiot 143 attack is not emblematic of the Battle of France, it is rather a particular sign of the misuse of these obsolete machines, mainly intended for transport with Potez 540. The Amiot 143 bombing squadrons had to be equipped with Léo 451 at the earliest.
    JMC

  16. #16
    No worries JMC, and thanks for the history lesson!

    The Lioré et Olivier Léo 451...that is another one I really wish we had updated for FS2004/FSX.

  17. #17
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    That would be nice, although I prefer an updated version of the Dewoitine D.520. I still fly the old model by Jean-Marie Mermaz, which seems to has a timeless external model, but could use an update in the cockpit area....

    Who knows what will happen when Shessi reads the thread behind the link below......

    https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.p...8a585e43d61dfa

    and some images of the IL2 cockpit....

    https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php?topic=42984.60

    But as I am still quite some models behind, no need to hurry And I even need to explore France with Amiot first!

    Cheers,
    Huub

  18. #18
    nice. hoping for a cfs 2 version someday.

  19. #19

    Amiot 143M cockpit

    Cher Gaston,
    afin d' honorer les avions francais et leur pilotes comme il convient,
    vous pouvez peut-être nous aider;
    on a du grand mal de trouver de la documentation et des photos des avions francais
    de cette epoque.
    Il est plus facile de trouver des manuels officiels d' avions allemands ou alliés ou des photos des cockpits
    que concernant des avions francais de l époque 1933 - 1945.
    Alors si vous pouvez nous faire parvenir du matériel pour faire des beaux cockpits, on serait enchanté de donner
    des beaux cockpits aux avions francais comme cela serait desirable -mais sans doc - - -
    Amicalement et respectueusement
    Papi

  20. #20
    Hello!

    Bonne question! C'est difficile de trouver de la documentation sur les avions français de cette époque. Il y eut pas mal de publications de la série "Docavia" et d'autres revues spécialisées, malheureusement aujourd'hui introuvables ou difficiles à trouver. Des ouvrages assez complets ont été fait sur les D520, MS406, Bloch 152, Amiot 143 (je le possède) mais ils sont chers et pas toujours orientés vers les développeurs FS.

    Quasiment rien sur internet si ce n'est de parcourir la Bibliothèque de France (Gallica) qui a des exemplaires des revues aéronautiques de l'époque numérisés. La seule solution est de se rendre au Musée de l'air et de l'espace (Le Bourget) mais c'est à 800 km de chez moi. Les copies de documents sont payantes.

    Enfin pour rajouter des difficultés, il faut se souvenir que les Allemands ont littéralement asservi l'industrie aéronautique Française suite à l'invasion en novembre 1942 de la zone libre après la rupture de l'armistice de 1940 et pratiqué la politique de la "terre brulée" lors de leur retraite en 1944. Peu de documents ont pu être récupérés et pas trop recherchés pour du matériel qui était devenu obsolète.

    Good question! It is difficult to find documentation on French aircraft of that time. There were quite a few publications from the "Docavia" series and other specialized periodicals, unfortunately nowhere to be found or difficult to find. Quite complete works have been done on the D520, MS406, Bloch 152, Amiot 143 (I own it) but they are expensive and not always oriented towards FS developers.

    Almost nothing on the internet except to browse the Library of France (Gallica) which has copies of aeronautical journals of the time digitized. The only solution is to go to the Air and Space Museum (Le Bourget) but it is 800 km from my home. Copies of documents are chargeable.

    Finally to add difficulties, we must remember that the Germans literally enslaved the French aeronautical industry following the invasion in November 1942 of the free zone after the rupture of the armistice of 1940 and practiced the policy of "land burned " during their retirement in 1944. Few documents were able to be recovered and not too much sought after for material which had become obsolete.

    JMC

    PS: J'ai moi même deux modèles interrompus pour cause de recherche de documentation cockpit.

    I have myself 2 models waiting for cockpit documentation



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails loire210_6b.jpg   ms225bldr.jpg  

  21. #21

    cockpits francais

    Bonjour Gaston,
    eh oui en france (et en allemagne) c est bien different aux pays anglo sxons, helas. Quand j ais visite le musee de la
    fleet airarm, j avais demande de photographier le cockpit du albacore, non seulement on m a tout facilites et j ais eu
    comme cadeau la photocopie du manuel en complet! Pareil quand j ais demande de la doc au musee norvegion de la seconde guerre mondiale.
    bref si vous avez de la doc de toute sorte et que vous voulez bien la partager je suis preneur pour essayer d en faire des cockpits.
    Peut etre vous connaissez mon essay d en faire pour le Devoitine 520.

    Kenavo
    Papi

  22. #22
    I built up the Heller 1/72 model of this....the Amiot 143.....I think between 1972 & '73.

    The discovery of girls, cars, & light planes pretty much killed any scale model activities after that. But the completed & super-detailed model sat on the shelf for years after. I think it might still exist in a relative's home a continent away at this point in time.

    I used to stare at the model and dwell on it late at night, waiting for sleep to find me.

    Yes....the Amiot 143.

    I had a book, thick like a bible. "Combat Aircraft of the World."

    Like a dictionary, a big fat one. Countries by alphabetical order, aircraft list the same way. Amiot under France.

    A large, detailed written description, history, assessment. A small, grainy, black & white photograph. no internet in the 1970's.

    But the imagination was spurred on.

    INTERESTING aircraft in an INTERESTING time.

    I noted that any other country that was building leading edge aviation technology in the mid 1930's was turning out bombers of similar antediluvian form.

    Britain, Soviet Union, Italy, USA. (Fair'nuff.)

    I also noticed that on the next page of Combat Aircraft of the World, beneath the "Amiot" section were listed the Amiot 350....and on up to the 370 variant. Very much like Republic's Rainbow prototype, but with only twin powerplants. Several years earlier. (whose building ugly planes now?) The 370 was a stunner that could only be surpassed by Ettore Bugatti....

    My.....how quickly it all advanced then.

    Again...in a few short years, there'd be German Jets......and then things with afterburners and stratospheric performance.

    They didn't waste any time, that generation.

    So...it's was a delight to see the Amiot 134 come flying off the black & white pages of the biblical Combat Aircraft of the World, and drone it's way into technicolour interactive Flightsim...(It lives!!)

    And it's an even greater treat to see the thing evolve into a more detailed evocation of...."That old thing" that kept my curiosity active when I was a kid.

    Thank you, Shessi. It's the kind of virtual haunting that I find most delightful. The spirit of this old aircraft brought alive again. Thanks for you creative generosity.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by magoo View Post

    I noted that any other country that was building leading edge aviation technology in the mid 1930's was turning out bombers of similar antediluvian form.

    Britain, Soviet Union, Italy, USA. (Fair'nuff.)
    Hi,
    You are right and I have some pictures of similars bombers of this time. For exemple a British one :



    JMC
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Handley-Page Harrow.jpg  

  24. #24

    I don't think any of the crtitical comments were Gallic-bashing, they were just about this ac, which are fairly true!

    And as M says, no one nation had a monopoly on bad out-of-date designs..I mean look at the Overstrand!, B-10 Bolo! or the Junkers G38!..ha ha!

    Nice models there G. And yes obviously the french aero industry stagnated during the war, but you've certainly made up for lost time...Mirage, Concorde, Rafale, Airbus...all beautiful and very sucessful ac.

    Regarding french ac models, there are quite a few out there that could be brought into Fs9...it's just having several life times to do them.....

    The Amiot is ready and will be uploaded today, not heard anything, so must be good.

    Salut

    Shessi
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Farman F291 3.jpg   d5101.gif   d371.gif   45aiy.jpg   image17c.gif   image16.gif  

    image6a.gif   gl450.gif   loire46.gif   ni521.gif   Shoghun_MB_210_v2_1.jpg   02.jpg  


  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Shessi View Post
    And yes obviously the french aero industry stagnated during the war, but you've certainly made up for lost time...Mirage, Concorde, Rafale, Airbus...all beautiful and very sucessful ac.


    Shessi
    No French aero industry, infortunately and under duress, no stagnated during war. Industry was producing german aircrafts such as Junker 52, Siebel 204, Storch, FW 190, BF 108 and french models such as the D520 and Leo 451 for Axis Allied, Gnome Rhone engines for Me 363, Henschel Hs 129 and several others. They did also Aircraft maintenance for the Luftwaffe.
    At the end of the war some bosses of this industry had to answer for their actions before the courts. Many were condemned, such as Emile Dewoitine, who had to exile himself in Argentina. The research offices have worked a lot covertly and this largely explains the revival of the French industry of which you speak.
    If it was not until the 1950s that the first military jets like the Dassault "Ouragan" appeared, it was for a great part due to the destruction of industrial potential under Allied bombing. Do you know that the Allied bombings over France caused more civilian casualties than the United Kingdom under the "German blitz"?
    JMC

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