Windows 7 Support to End

[Jafo]

Thank you Mick - just to be clear the question is - if I buy a copy of Win7 now, to be used in the future . As Priller pointed out, I may run into problems with the drivers

Main point is...if you did buy a copy...install it now, not later...and thus get any/all updates to it before they end [or you have to pay for them]. A 'vanilla' Win 7 would be pretty useless in the long term ...more so than ones currently in use...

[greenie]

Yes, but - my new system will happen ( hopefully !) when or after M$FS is released and the next set of improvements happen in VR. It will be built for VR and M$FS ( including the other sims too. P3D+X-plane). Could be a 1 years time next Christmas or so, whenever it all happens . Grief how I hate patience !!

[hairyspin]

Is that all ?
The interface is "dumbed down" because there are icons in it ?
Do you know you can choose them, rearrange them, and more importantly, choose between "big" and "small" size for each ? (on your screenshot the icons are set to big).
If anything, the start menu actually looks more usable in the Win10 version, actually :/

Shhhhh! And don’t tell anyone, but you can still use the keyboard too ... y’know, hit Start and begin typing the name of the program or file you want and it comes up on the menu. W ... O ... oh look, Word. Duh.

[Dangerous Beans]

I woulnt be suprise if FS2020 (or whatever its called) will require W10 so if your building a rig with that in mind forget W7, its time to move on.

[zswobbie1]

It is confirmed that Windows 10 is needed for MSFS.
Windows 7 is obviously obsolete, as it is not needed, and a waste of space. It is not optimized at all to run on modern hardware.

Bear in mind, that some Windows 7 drivers will not work with new hardware that's optimized for Windows 10.

[Daube]

Daube.... I think you're missing a bit.

Yes, definitely I'm missing something, and that's why I was asking questions.

What's gone is those painful 'tiles'....

These tiles can be configured, chosen, placed, resized. What's the problem ? Why are they more "painful" than the icons you're using in your Win7 start menu ?

the hunt and seek process to ever find access to a control panel....

The hunt to ever find ? I don't understand... You have the "find" field just there: type "control panel", right click on the result, choose "pin to start menu" and voilà, it's there forever...

the 'where T F' is the 'off' button

It's right there on top of the start menu button !?
It's even easier to find than on the Windows 7 start menu !

and everything else that is pointless if you are NOT on a Windows Phone.....

Like... what exactly ? What are these pointless things that are only relevant to Windows phones ?

Start10 is an identical reconstruction for 10 of the 7 GUI...which is its point/raison d'etre ...

I get the point of Start10. I just don't get the reason why people want to keep that Win7 menu. So far, you have not given any valid reason in your list, excepted that you need to search exactly ONCE for the control panel...

[Jafo]

Daube... The methodology of GUI design is highly involved and has been a sensible evolution process until Microsoft made everyone conform to their need for compatibility with a touch screen phone system, and they did it at the expense of and in spite of people who used their machines for actual WORK, not posting selfies on instagram, and texting while they drive and kill people.

All you have to do is compare 7 to a default 10 and count the key strokes to get anything done.

It is ONLY the 10 kernel that can be deemed a 'marvel' [or improvement]...it is what tends to make it less resource-hungry than its predecessors [ignoring the dogs...ME, Vista, and 8]. The GUI didn't even get the Windows phone out of the starter's gate. THAT is dead in the water...it's an ex-parrot.
So why the hell did users have to have its GUI thrust down their throats?
Might be fine for those born in this millennium...but anyone who has messed with computers since the 60's has seen enough crap come and go....though my real issue is with the [mostly] unavoidable/forced updates the general user has to suffer thanks to a policy change at Redmond....where everyone [bar the fat cats] becomes the beta tester, like it or not, and if it loses you everything you have ever worked on on the computer...every user file...so be it....and read the EULA....sorry, mate...ain't Microsoft's fault.

The lines of code in a current OS are so complex now MS can't afford to spend the millions on pre-release testing....nah....let the idiot customers do that for them...it's a win-win....

[Mick]

Thank you Mick - just to be clear the question is - if I buy a copy of Win7 now, to be used in the future . As Priller pointed out, I may run into problems with the drivers and after reading the posts here I think I'll go to win10 with the mods. Can't help thinking that win10 will be just fine with M$FS when it comes out - same company

Well, Jafo's post above suggests that you might still find a copy of Win7 to buy if you can finds a store that still has some in stock. Finding a store that has a copy and would sell it to you would be the hard part.

But what I was told is that it can't be, because when a seller gets a license from MS to sell the current OS, part of the contract is that they can no longer sell any older ones regardless if they have copies still in stock. If that's correct, then you'd not only have to find a store with Win7 in stock, but one that was willing to violate their license and risk somehow being caught and losing their license for the current version and all future versions. At least that's how it was explained to me by the shop that initially built my Win7 rig. My techie friend who rebuilt it for me (who I didn't know yet when it was built initially) didn't dispute that, and added the part about serial number linkage - which is part of MS's effort to force us to keep buying new confutors and/or Windows versions when we'd rather upgrade or rebuild.

If you could find a copy that was sold as just an OS in a box, meant to be installed on an existing confutor, not linked to an existing processor or motherboard, that would be great! But finding it might be a fruitless quest. If you do find one, I concur that you should install it immediately and get all the updates while they're still available, which they won't be after some time in January.

[Jafo]

Well, Jafo's post above suggests that you might still find a copy of Win7 to buy if you can finds a store that still has some in stock. Finding a store that has a copy and would sell it to you would be the hard part.

But what I was told is that it can't be, because when a seller gets a license from MS to sell the current OS, part of the contract is that they can no longer sell any older ones regardless if they have copies still in stock. If that's correct, then you'd not only have to find a store with Win7 in stock, but one that was willing to violate their license and risk somehow being caught and losing their license for the current version and all future versions. At least that's how it was explained to me by the shop that initially built my Win7 rig. My techie friend who rebuilt it for me (who I didn't know yet when it was built initially) didn't dispute that, and added the part about serial number linkage - which is part of MS's effort to force us to keep buying new confutors and/or Windows versions when we'd rather upgrade or rebuild.

If you could find a copy that was sold as just an OS in a box, meant to be installed on an existing confutor, not linked to an existing processor or motherboard, that would be great! But finding it might be a fruitless quest. If you do find one, I concur that you should install it immediately and get all the updates while they're still available, which they won't be after some time in January.

Mick....my comment above [#47] includes a 5 second search on Ebay for Win 7. It's still available in a box, new and unused. I expect your shop may have led you astray.

As for the hardware coding to an OS install....that was an effective [and successful] copy protection ensuring the one key was used on the one computer, but yes, it takes effort to have it used again on a replaced or upgraded machine... but it can be done ...via a call to MS explaining why a new install was needed...done it a couple of times myself...

[Bjoern]

Add to that, that you are only allowed x amount of re-installs / re-activations due to hardware upgrades before you need to purchase a new license.

Only when putting in a new mainboard (or CPU?).

I went from team blue (Intel) to team red (AMD) recently and had to reactivate Win 10 because of that...funnily enough, using a Win 7 key because MS somehow never got entirely rid of the "free upgrade" mechanics.

Linux, on the other hand, didn't care about the system swap at all.

I woulnt be suprise if FS2020 (or whatever its called) will require W10 so if your building a rig with that in mind forget W7, its time to move on.

If you're building a current-gen rig, you won't find Windows 7 drivers for your hardware anyway.

[Dangerous Beans]

Oh and theres another reason to go with Win10. If your prepared to make a Microsoft account and link your Win10 to it theres no problem when upgrading as the OS is linked to you not the hardware.

[Priller]

The most important reason to embrace change and progress is quite simply: if you plan on using hardware that improves constantly, if you plan on using better flightsims and doing so safely: use Windows 10.

Windows 10 has it flaws, every version of Windows had them. But it is the best OS that Micro$oft has ever come up with.

The GUI isn't to your liking? Tough sh*t. Adapt and overcome. In non-military parlance: get over it. I remember the outrage when Windows XP came out. Everyone was complaining about the GUI. A year later everybody loved it.

Now can we leave our caves and look at the future of flightsim?

Priller

[Jafo]

The most important reason to embrace change and progress is quite simply: if you plan on using hardware that improves constantly, if you plan on using better flightsims and doing so safely: use Windows 10.

Windows 10 has it flaws, every version of Windows had them. But it is the best OS that Micro$oft has ever come up with.

The GUI isn't to your liking? Tough sh*t. Adapt and overcome. In non-military parlance: get over it. I remember the outrage when Windows XP came out. Everyone was complaining about the GUI. A year later everybody loved it.

Now can we leave our caves and look at the future of flightsim?

Priller

Yep...the first point is right....When I built this machine....at the time it was the best money could buy....Win 7 didn't know what DDR4 was...or an M.2 drive, for that matter.... so it took a bit of work to get it happening.

The real 'flaw' with 10 was it's "marketing" to the user...whether you wanted it or not. That violated so many Consumer Laws Redmond's gonads should have been cut off. At least some people sued...and won....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Windows_10

Re XP and its GUI....wrong, a year later skinners were working overtime to get rid of the Fisher-Price look. GUI developers certainly did NOT like it. The first for them to say 'at last' was Vista...but that was a half-baked 7 released too soon and drivers were no-where to be found.

I'm not a dinosaur....the majority of my physical machines are running 10 [none of which had a painless upgrade process and 2 still refuse to complete one of the updates] ... but it is damning for Microsoft that the one I use 24/7/365 to Administer a Community of 6 million on several sites is still on 7..... and it runs FSX just fine too...

[Priller]

Yep...the first point is right....When I built this machine....at the time it was the best money could buy....Win 7 didn't know what DDR4 was...or an M.2 drive, for that matter.... so it took a bit of work to get it happening.

The real 'flaw' with 10 was it's "marketing" to the user...whether you wanted it or not. That violated so many Consumer Laws Redmond's gonads should have been cut off. At least some people sued...and won....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Windows_10

Re XP and its GUI....wrong, a year later skinners were working overtime to get rid of the Fisher-Price look. GUI developers certainly did NOT like it. The first for them to say 'at last' was Vista...but that was a half-baked 7 released too soon and drivers were no-where to be found.

I'm not a dinosaur....the majority of my physical machines are running 10 [none of which had a painless upgrade process and 2 still refuse to complete one of the updates] ... but it is damning for Microsoft that the one I use 24/7/365 to Administer a Community of 6 million on several sites is still on 7..... and it runs FSX just fine too...

I wonder... Have you ever loved a GUI other than your beloved Windows 7?

Things is: sooner or later you'll have to cave in. or move over to Linux, saying goodbye to that real dinosaur called FSX.

Priller

[Jafo]

I wonder... Have you ever loved a GUI other than your beloved Windows 7?

Things is: sooner or later you'll have to cave in. or move over to Linux, saying goodbye to that real dinosaur called FSX.

Priller

No...you see....that's where you are wrong.
For a VERY long time we have been providing Shell alternatives and addons for MS systems....[Stardock has had Gold Certified Partner status - back when Redmond was willing to quietly admit they needed help].

Currently we have Start10 [amongst other wares] which at least restores the GUI, so long as you accept/forget the tactics used to entice/force you to end up with 10.

I've spent years coding and painting for FSX...so won't be ditching the Dinosaur.
I've also spent years doing similar to 95/98/2000/XP/Vista/7 [oh, and Dos] which is why all of those are on VMs...
OK, so I have 8 on one too...but that's just a curiosity....like I once had a ME one too....but that was being too sad and pathetic.

First shells I played with were for Dos....you ain't lived until you've done icons in 4bit colour...

Edit....found a couple of old ones....2002...Litestep shell replacement for 2000 [you dump explorer.exe entirely]....

[Spook48]

Quote:I've spent years coding and painting for FSX...so won't be ditching the Dinosaur.

So did i.
I also spent years getting outoff my chair if i wanted to change the tv channel.
Sometimes you just have to move on or time will bite you in the butt .

[Mark]

Edit: Changed my mind and don't want to really get involved in this topic. It's kinda like religion or politics, no matter what you say, you won't change people's minds.
For the record, I prefer Win 7. Enough said. lol

[vortex]

The majority of objections to the Windows 10 Start Menu seem to revolve around the tiles. You don't have to have any tiles - it's easy to get rid of them and then simply resize the empty tile space until it disappears (although I tend to pin my most used apps and folders there as small tiles). There are plenty of customisation options under Settings/Personalisation/Start. You can get a lot more useful links by just right-clicking on the Start icon instead of left-clicking. If you really need quick access to the Control Panel, put it on the desktop as an icon or pin it to the taskbar. I briefly tried a number of the Start Menu replacements but once I'd worked out how to customise the default menu I decided I quite liked it and uninstalled the replacements. The Windows 10 Start Menu is only messy if you do nothing with it. Take a look here for some customisation tips: https://www.howtogeek.com/197836/8-w...10-start-menu/

There's very little that the Win 10 Start Menu can't do that the Win 7 version could (and with no more clicks in most instances).

[Stefano Zibell]

It pains me to see concerns about interface and trivial things when the worries should be about performance, memory management, boot times, ssd management, efficiency of spectre/meltdown patches in regards to impact on processor performance, all of which are better on windows 10.

[Jafo]

.... all of which are better on windows 10.

As is the Data-mining, and the invasive and insidious forcing of the OS 'upgrade' down the consumers' throats.

Still....could be worse....could be Apple and their solution to workers' suicides...;p


As for the GUI being trivial ...most OS users know little about the kernel or even that there is such a thing....to them Explorer.exe IS the OS.
WYSIWYG ...