Another oldie but goody question
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Thread: Another oldie but goody question

  1. #1

    Another oldie but goody question

    OK so here's what I got happening:

    Wrote bombing missions for Player A/C as B-17, everything goes as planned until the bomb run.
    On the bomb run I signal "Attack" but all my squadron AI's split up and fly around and hit the assigned target (from MB, not from targeting with brackets) long after I've made my run and turned for home. I would like the AI's to stay in box formation and drop when I do, the same way AI level bomber squadrons attack.

    Do I need to:

    Target area I want hit with brackets (if so then how do you signal "attack" to whole squadron at once as opposed to two at a time?)

    Assign the target another way from "attack with bombs" in MB

    I realize that the sim was written for fighters and not all scenarios are possible but I'm hoping there is a way around this.

  2. #2
    Hi 486_Col_Wolf,

    Do a hand edit of the mission file and move your AC from the lead.

    You are usually Unit.0. in this example I moved the player AC to the Unit.2 position.

    [unit.0]
    id=9078
    type_id=3970
    name=%name_string.0%
    allegiance=3
    skill=2
    aggression=1
    payload=2
     
    [unit.1]
    id=9079
    type_id=3970
    name=%name_string.1%
    allegiance=3
    skill=2
    aggression=1
    payload=2
     
    [unit.2]
    id=9080
    type_id=3970
    name=%name_string.2%
    is_player_aircraft=1
    allegiance=3
    skill=2
    aggression=1
    payload=2

    Hope this helps,

    B24Guy

  3. #3
    SOH-CM-2019 Ravenna's Avatar
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    Hi 48_Col_Wolf,

    B24Guy's hand edit is a good idea. After the edit, have a look in the bomber's DP.

    I don't have my list handy but you could look at your entries at the bottom of the DP. For a B-17 the type should=2 and the category is also 2 (I think that's correct for a level bomber). If you have those entries the box formation you chose in MB should hold together and bomb the target you selected.

  4. #4

    Icon22 Reply...

    486 Col Wolf,

    The B24 Guy is correct. Using his method, the bombers will release on target automatically, without an attack command. The only caveat is that they won't respond to your commands at all.

    However, they will hold formation as they turn for home.

    And there is one thing that the B24 Guy forgot to mention, in addition to adjusting the "Unit" section, (in red) you can also adjust the formation portion of the flight, so that your plane takes position in the flight from where the plane you're replacing. (They become the lead aircraft in the formation)

    Just remember, that also means that you hold that position in the formation on the runway, so after you start engines, make sure the way is cleared in front of you! I wish it worked on carriers too, so you can watch the AI take off first. Haven't found any way to make that happen yet...sigh.

    This technique is especially useful for dive bomber and torpedo attack missions, as the AI behavior for both is very good. In both cases, you can follow the lead plane in the attack run and it will lead you directly to the target. It is not quite as useful for level bombing missions, but it's still good.

    [unit.40]
    id=9360
    type_id=3872
    name=%name_string.40%
    allegiance=2
    skill=2
    aggression=1
    payload=1

    [unit.41]
    id=9361
    type_id=3872
    name=%name_string.41%
    allegiance=2
    skill=2
    aggression=1
    payload=1

    [unit.42]
    id=9362
    type_id=3872
    name=%name_string.42%
    allegiance=2
    skill=2
    aggression=1
    payload=1

    [unit.43]
    id=9359
    type_id=3872
    name=%name_string.43%
    is_player_aircraft=1
    allegiance=2
    skill=2
    aggression=1
    payload=1

    [formation.10]
    id=6000
    type=air
    waypoint_path_id=5000
    alternate_path_id=5054
    directive=128
    players_formation=1
    formation_type=3
    points=2
    unit_id_position.0=9360,0,300.0,-600.0,0.0
    unit_id_position.1=9361,0,600.0,-1200.0,0.0
    unit_id_position.2=9362,0,900.0,-1800.0,0.0
    unit_id_position.3=9359,0,0.0,0.0,0.0
    "Rami"

    "Me? I'm just a Sea of Tranquility in an Ocean of Storms, babe."

    My campaign site: http://www.box.net/shared/0k1e1rz29h
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  5. #5
    Hi Rami,

    Try this tweak of AF's Scrambled Thach mission.

    Regards,

    B24Guy
    Attached Files Attached Files

  6. #6

    Reply...

    Quote Originally Posted by The B24 Guy View Post
    Hi Rami,

    Try this tweak of AF's Scrambled Thach mission.

    Regards,

    B24Guy
    The B24 Guy,

    Well, I'll be god-da*ned!
    "Rami"

    "Me? I'm just a Sea of Tranquility in an Ocean of Storms, babe."

    My campaign site: http://www.box.net/shared/0k1e1rz29h
    My missions site: http://www.box.net/shared/ueh4kazk3v
    My scenery site: http://www.box.net/shared/knb1l0ztobhs2esb14rb

  7. #7
    Hi Rami,
    I had made this mission Multi-take-off a while ago. When I read your post I was sure it could be done.
    So I just moved the player AC, and it worked.
    The more I fly this mission mod the more I like it.
    It is neat to see what the AI do when left alone.

    Regards,
    B24Guy

  8. #8
    Ravenna,

    DP is correct. Family and Category are correct for B-17, 2 and 2.

    B-24 Guy,

    I'd really like to maintain the lead in the formation but if I must, I'll try the change.

    Is there anything in MB that must be set in stone to have the bombers release on target such as altitude, speed, formation...ect. Right now I have the attack waypoint at 25,000 ft @134 kts flying in a box formation. Also, if I do not hit the "Attack " command, I'm not sure if the bombers of my squadron will drop with me if I'm still the lead plane.

  9. #9
    Hi 486 Col Wolf,

    I don't think there is anything you can do to get a level bomber formation to drop when you do. The formation will drop when the AI thinks they will hit the target regardless of when you drop. They have to have a designated way point target object (or an area, but an object like a building works better) with the "attack with bombs" instruction. They should release when the formation reaches the designated way point. It's not set in stone but it's a good idea to program the formation's way point a little distance before and one again beyond the target way point before you add a turn way point. That way they have time to compute the right drop point and are straight and level when they drop.

    They don't need the Attack command when you have a target way point. I don't know but that might cause the formation to break up and mill around to find the target before they figure out how to attack it. The last thing you'd want for a level bomb run.

    I'm pretty sure your altitude and speed settings won't affect anything unless perhaps the settings are beyond what the game is programmed to compute i.e. WWII era parameters. As an aside, a CFS2 quirk is the bombers will each only release one bomb. Go figure.
    Cheers,

    Captain Kurt
    ------------------------------------------------------
    "Fly, you fools!" Gandalf the Gray

  10. #10
    Hi 486 Col Wolf,
    Looks like Captain Kurt covered it.

    Regards,
    B24Guy

  11. #11
    Captain Kurt:

    "I'm pretty sure your altitude and speed settings won't affect anything unless perhaps the settings are beyond what the game is programmed to compute i.e. WWII era parameters. As an aside, a CFS2 quirk is the bombers will each only release one bomb. Go figure."

    Is that even in the MB armaments menu they are set to "...Bombs,Salvo"? I've many times seen them salvo rockets but can't tell with bombs. I often arm Wolfi's Avenger with 4 500lb bombs and 8 rockets, both described as salvo when not armed with a torpedo .

    Thanks for the refresher. I often set my target type to whatever specified and give the "Attack" order without designating a target and let them home in on the MB designated attack waypoint.
    "De Oppresso Liber"

  12. #12

    Icon22 Reply...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Wolf 07 View Post
    As an aside, a CFS2 quirk is the bombers will each only release one bomb. Go figure."
    Which is precisely why AI bombs were created as a payload option.
    "Rami"

    "Me? I'm just a Sea of Tranquility in an Ocean of Storms, babe."

    My campaign site: http://www.box.net/shared/0k1e1rz29h
    My missions site: http://www.box.net/shared/ueh4kazk3v
    My scenery site: http://www.box.net/shared/knb1l0ztobhs2esb14rb

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rami View Post
    Which is precisely why AI bombs were created as a payload option.
    What he said
    Cheers,

    Captain Kurt
    ------------------------------------------------------
    "Fly, you fools!" Gandalf the Gray

  14. #14
    Seems to be too many quirks when trying to write bomber missions. After all it was original designed as a fighter sim. I also noticed that even if other squadrons you fly with are using the same bomber A/C they climb faster than you can no matter what you do to keep up.

  15. #15
    Hello everybody!
    I‘ve been away for some time, busy with real life, but now I have more time again, and would like to add my thoughts to this discussion.

    I have played with bomber missions recently (something’s coming in the next few days) and here is the way I do it:

    I create an AI formation that flies the planned route, and just attach myself to this. So I can start the mission at a dispersal and taxi to the runway for take off, and enjoy some eyecandy like vehicles or Capain Kurt‘s grond crews along the way. I can also have some AI planes take off while I taxi, to bring some additional live to the scene.


    After take off I warp to the next waypoint, where the AI formation spawns. With large formations I use seven AI in a diamond formation, which leaves the rearmost spot in the formation for me.
    At the attack waypoint I just have to drop my bombs when the AIs do, and follow them away from the target.
    If we are intercepted by enemy fighters, I can pull ahead a little bit, and get some protection from the gunners of the AI beside me.


    On return to base I let the AIs pass over the airfield and go anywhere, I land and taxi back to the dispersal area. That also takes away the problem of wingmen crashing on landing.
    It takes a little practise in formation flying tondo it that way, but it can be done. It also needs some tweaking of certain waypoints, so as to be in a proper position after warping.
    CFS2 was made as a fighter sim, but with a little creativity it is also possible to make bomber missions that feel quite realistic.

  16. #16

    Icon22 Reply...

    Good morning,

    I like Skylane's approach! But with regard to 486_Col_Wolf, bomber missions aren't all that quirky once you get the hang of them. One of the things to keep in mind is if you set up an IP and an egress point, then the AI will release automatically. Instead of dropping when you want them to, drop when they do. The AI usually hit land targets with regularity. "Live" shipping and vehicle convoys can be a little tricky for level bombing, but will also work with practice.

    With dive-bombers, the latter two are a lot easier.

    For land targets, the bombers will release automatically based on height and speed. If you are in formation, all you have to do is release when they do, and your chances of hitting the target are pretty high.
    "Rami"

    "Me? I'm just a Sea of Tranquility in an Ocean of Storms, babe."

    My campaign site: http://www.box.net/shared/0k1e1rz29h
    My missions site: http://www.box.net/shared/ueh4kazk3v
    My scenery site: http://www.box.net/shared/knb1l0ztobhs2esb14rb

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