M$ flight simulator
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  1. #1

    M$ flight simulator

    WOW ....who's not going to try this - fselite.net

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by greenie View Post
    WOW ....who's not going to try this - fselite.net
    I would guess quite a few, however there are many who will also be looking at how "cross-over" friendly it will be and ultimately. . .what kind of rig will it require to actually see what we are given as previews. It's for certain the videos and screens we are shown were not run on the average system.

    It looks amazing but if my native FSX addons (scenery and aircraft) won't make the jump or my current system (which runs FSX/Accel and P3D_V4.4) doesn't give me something that impresses me enough to stay. . .then I'll stay with what I have and I would imagine many others will be in the same boat. . .at least initially.
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  3. #3
    I will definatly try it but staying with it dedends on there pricing. If they go with a subsription model for the top tier scenery then they can stick it.

    Backward compatability would be nice but they will have to drop it at some point just so the tech can move forward. The old FS engine is so old now that it has to be holding things back to some extent.
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  4. #4
    Hi,

    FSX has on old engine, but that concerns flight model, i suppose. 3D models could be easily moved at the price of some changes in texturing and animations.

    JM

  5. #5
    Have you seen this?
    Froogle changed his mind... me too.

    https://youtu.be/Fj8h6yibHHc

  6. #6
    You could call the new MS Flight Simulator a disruptor. I will not buy any more scenery or payware aircraft for my current FSX. Now it's a wait and see.

    -d
    Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken.

  7. #7
    Good video by Froogle.

    I have been waiting for more information about this sim and P3dV5 before I build my new computer, to get VR'd. Will I be interested in p3d after this ?
    maybe because it doesn't support VR.

  8. #8
    This is a very in-depth look and discussion by AIRBOYD who attended the event and flew the pre-alpha product.
    It is a bit long at 34 minutes, but provides a wealth of info on the product and future plans.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkMoZkGhIog

    Cheers.
    Deke

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dvj View Post
    You could call the new MS Flight Simulator a disruptor. I will not buy any more scenery or payware aircraft for my current FSX. Now it's a wait and see.

    -d
    I also am not buying any more payware for P3d or XPL11.
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  10. #10
    It also is going to put some developers out of their niche because the MS Flight Simulator flaws will be gone. No longer will there need to be teams that develop realistic terrain and weather. Scenery designers might also take a hit on some level that one will really depend on how accurate the autogen is.

    I am looking forward to it but will probably need a newer PC.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerousdave26 View Post
    It also is going to put some developers out of their niche because the MS Flight
    Based on the many comments I've been reading since the E3 announcement of the rebirth of MSFS, I've come to one rather disturbing conclusion...

    By the time that MSFS is released from final beta, the talent pool of aircraft modelers and gauge/systems programmers will be nearly non-existent. Slow or no sales of new aircraft means no way to pay the employees, who will be forced to update their resumes and seek out job opportunities.

    I've spent the past two decades learning and polishing my crafts. It will take years before new product for MSFS from third parties to become available.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by n4gix View Post
    Based on the many comments I've been reading since the E3 announcement of the rebirth of MSFS, I've come to one rather disturbing conclusion...

    By the time that MSFS is released from final beta, the talent pool of aircraft modelers and gauge/systems programmers will be nearly non-existent. Slow or no sales of new aircraft means no way to pay the employees, who will be forced to update their resumes and seek out job opportunities.

    I've spent the past two decades learning and polishing my crafts. It will take years before new product for MSFS from third parties to become available.
    I'm seeing what you're seeing Bill. Sales of everything are dropping rapidly as people wait for the new sim. Many companies will not survive the gap between now and release, not even to mention the gap between the release and the time it will take to re-engineer add-ons for the new interfaces. As you well know simply converting sophisticated systems code from FSX to Prepar3D is far from trivial and those two are based on ESP. We'll have to wait and see but I highly doubt such a new sim rebuilt with a new engine will be 100% compatible with FSX. I rather suspect it will be dramatically different internally and require massive work to adapt add-ons.

    Looking back we can see that the stability brought about by the long life of FSX and its direct descendants made the add-on development industry what it is now; and if we don't see that dismantled over the next year it'll be a miracle.

    This also impacts not just the FSX/P3D world but I see major side effects on other platforms also.

    Sadly,
    Dutch

    Also a Milviz Developer

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by greenie View Post
    WOW ....who's not going to try this - fselite.net
    Me for one.

    FSX Steam is simply the end of the line for me. Not enough time or money to invest any further in this hobby, including Windows 10. I did not expect the on-going costs of upgrading to new cell phones and tablets every few years (for a family of four) to be what they are. That alone blows my computer budget out of the water. It's not all bad news though as FSX Steam, along with my newish graphics card and Steve's FSX DX10 Scenery Fixer and Cloud Shadows, added new life to my old rig. So I'll keep my current FSX Steam install until Microsoft pulls the plug on Windows 7 or FSX Steam. Once that is done, the stand alone computer system will be a thing of the distant past for this family. Hopefully this old rig finds it way to computer heaven (landfill in India) where my old Intel 8086 Leading Edge Model D now lives.

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  14. #14
    I'll be continuing with FSX until some time after MSFS is released. Once MSFS has been on the market long enough for 3rd party support to be abundant, the bugs have been addressed, there is reasonably accurate AI aircraft operations, and ATC at least as good as (hopefully better than) FSX, then it will be time to move on. M$ has made it clear that Windows X is the only operating system of the future. I think they are looking at MSFS as the flight sim of the future and it will operate only on Windows X. I do think we will see FSX relegated to the scrap heap of software, diehards will continue with it, but the third party support will evaporate.
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  15. #15
    I am also awaiting the new sim, but it won’t be my only one. I will continue to purchase some payware but with prices going through the roof, I’ll wait for a sale.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by n4gix View Post
    Based on the many comments I've been reading since the E3 announcement of the rebirth of MSFS, I've come to one rather disturbing conclusion...

    By the time that MSFS is released from final beta, the talent pool of aircraft modelers and gauge/systems programmers will be nearly non-existent. Slow or no sales of new aircraft means no way to pay the employees, who will be forced to update their resumes and seek out job opportunities.

    I've spent the past two decades learning and polishing my crafts. It will take years before new product for MSFS from third parties to become available.
    Hi Bill.

    I'm afraid you may be right! Certainly scenery developers will take a big hit too. No need for any development other than Airport development. All terrain elements and non-airport buildings will be done by Azure AI. There may be room for landmarks, but who would buy them? The decision to release an alpha SDK is open to only a very few invited developers.

  17. #17
    Very interesting. I expect that there may be some serious limitations here for those of us with more limited streaming capability available. The video is visually impressive, but I was disappointed in the reviewer not really discussing the flight dynamics and how those are derived.

    Many possibilities here but even the current intensity in producing a top level aircraft for FSX/P3D is quite significant and may make the bar high indeed.

  18. #18
    Keep one very, very important point at the forefront of the collective mindset(s)......Microsoft are not doing this because they care about flight simming, the flight sim community or because they are the 'Good Guys' and they really care.
    It's all about making money, nothing more, nothing less.
    MS have thrown 'us' under the bus previously and if it suits they will not hesitate to do so again!
    Believe nothing and trust them not at all.

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  19. #19
    It'll kill off P3D too.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Naismith View Post
    It'll kill off P3D too.
    In theory they don't compete in the same market since P3D is not for recreational use.


    Quote Originally Posted by fliger747 View Post
    Very interesting. I expect that there may be some serious limitations here for those of us with more limited streaming capability available. The video is visually impressive, but I was disappointed in the reviewer not really discussing the flight dynamics and how those are derived.

    Many possibilities here but even the current intensity in producing a top level aircraft for FSX/P3D is quite significant and may make the bar high indeed.
    Airboyd discussed that in his video. He was so awstruck by the visuals he did not have time to concentrate on systems or flight model. Their goal is realism so hopefully they have someone working on that item.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkMoZkGhIog

  21. #21
    The only issue I have with it is it's marriage to win10 - or the return of windowsME as I see it. Hopefully when microsoft moves on to the next OS (hopefully a better one) they'll bring the new flight sim with it. That's when I'll buy it.
    enter..the Sandman

  22. #22
    Why is it that whenever something new and exciting pokes up over the horizon, people go running for cover? Microsoft is a very large, experienced, professional organisation that doesn't do things lightly. Yes they made mistakes with Flight but they obviously have the confidence in the market and community to forge on with this next generation game.

    I really do not think that MS will be ignoring the greater percentage of developers and community support who have assisted greatly in maintaining the FS franchise for decades. Why would they do that? They have already shown us that they intend to have some level of compatibility with existing assets and that an off-line version will be made available in which these assets can be used.

    To suggest that developers will "die" is ridiculous. Most good developers will adjust, adopt and adapt. Just like they have done for years with all the other platforms that were never going to fly.

    So will people keep buying product for the other platforms? Of course they will - for two very good reasons that have nothing to do with logic or common sense - "ooh new shiny thing!" and good old curiosity. Those who are going to 'stick" with their existing platforms will still want new stuff or are we all going to stop here and not upgrade anything? Come on. People are still making things for FS8 and 9 for heaven's sake.

    There will be a requirement for devs to learn new tricks but that's nothing new. We already have the material and equipment to do this - Microsoft have already said so. My guess is that we will be working with adapting existing work for the fastest response and redeveloping other subjects to match quality expectations. So what's new or difficult about that?

    At AH, we are embracing this bold, new world. We can't afford not to. But that isn't the real reason. It's because this is the best thing we've seen in this hobby for a very long time. Do I want to be part of that?

    You bet.

  23. #23
    Well said, Bazzar! Honestly, FSX is old. P3D is built on FSX, so it also looks old. Other sims have advanced and make FSX look almost cartoonish. It's past time for a replacement that is fresh, new, and gets away from all the bad stuff that legacy code brings.
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  24. #24
    SOH-CM-2017 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    I can only agree Bazzar. I am signed up to the FlightSim 2020 Insiders and have been not looking at the lovely but listening to various discussions by the development team. It is clear to me that they are or have addressing all the issues that made FSX and Steam so difficult. i.e Direct X and 32 bit and the base O/S environment. Ignoring the hype about Petabytes of this and that it is clear they have taken a completly different approach to the world model and build up a simulator environment based on a very wide spectrum of real world data. They are also incorporating a lot of new software via third parties and partnerships with those firms to rebuild the very model engine and the dynamics of the new environment vis a vis cloud, weather generation, wave generation etc etc. They are clearly exploiting the considerable capabilitie of the latest graphical capacity via DX11 etc. They seemed sincere when they said or hinted that MS had dropped the ball on Flight Sim ( that means they suddenly realised they got rid of about 20 million customers - ooops!)

    The aim as I understand it is essentially ONLINE but they are also have recognised the variable band and internet speeds so are employing a cache system so even if you want to go use it offline a basic cache will provide the basics and the basics are pretty good from the videos I have seen.

    Memory and Internet Bandwith are the key issues for all of us. The offline cache is about 68GB as the team said in a discussion there is no point in downloading the whole world (The Petabyte thing) but the bit your flying in or to and from which makes it a whole more manageable. The specs for the PC being used or demonstrated on are nothing super just a high quality modern multicore processor and reasonable RAM etc nothing more than is required for P3D.

    They are being cagey about the sim models either as default or add on flight models and I guess my reasoning is the new sim engine will not run say an FSX model without some serious rebuiding and work because the new engine takes into account a large number of dynamic variables aerodynamically, not that there not known but just they are keeping the real world approach they have taken to the scenery to the sim model behaviour in it. They have said nothing about AI or the Living World aspect (ships, animals cars ground vehicles etc. ) so no idea what they have in mind there. That being said the current default list is basically similar to FSX, a couple of jets, a couple of lighties, a glider and an old piston (the DC3).

    My gut feeling is it will ship as a base operating system with sim-internet connectivity and file architecture that will give some stuff but not a lot enough for the data transfer to then fill in the gaps so to speak. Whether that will be via a license or pay as you go process they are not saying.

    My major concern is not new hardwared my rig is due for replacement anyway but internet connectivity and for a lot of folk all over the planet that is a major issue either you cannot get the bandwith or you cannot get the speeds needed. I guess if you live in Silicon Valley it will be great but rural Australia for example, forget it it will never work the internet is too flaky and too slow to do it.


    I think listening to the Development Team talk they have had carte blanche to make this thing work and work in the 21st Century and I like their approach and what they have done but when all is said and done if you want that level of realism which they will deliver then you need Petabytes of data stored somewhere because the world is a very big place indeed. Getting it in chunks as you need it is fine by me.

    Yes I am impressed and yes I will stick with FSX for the foreseeable future and I actually lookfoward to getting the world and its environments in one package after all with al the scenery addons I have bought or sourced my FSX world is pretty close to half a terrabyte anyway so the numbers they quote are fine.

    Price? Who knows it won't be cheap but it won't be expensive either probably about current X-Box rates I would say after the initial base software package purchase.

  25. #25
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    It amuses me when people regard backward compatibility as a criteria in getting Microsoft Flight Simulator, as well as those who feel it important to tell the community that they will no longer buy any more add-ons for their sims for the next year or so.
    Seriously guys, we dont actually care if you stop your purchases.

    Backward compatibility?? I'm sure you are aware that FSX aircraft's flight characteristics are using a single contact reference point as compared to the 1000 per surface that the MSFS's aircraft will have? Consider the new sim as being a totally new sim!

    Also, the comment that MSFS will kill P3D... I'm sure that all are aware that P3D is a commercial product, used for training, & not for entertainment? Yes, LM does allow that do not qualify to purchase, whereas MSFS, as per the T's & C's, is NOT for commercial use, therefoe is an entertainment product? Therefore 2x sims for 2 different markets?


    Bazzar tells it like it is, Good words there!

    So, please, We are not really interested if you are going to stop buying add-ons, or if you are not going to buy the new sim because of streaming issues, if it will only work on Windows 10, if there's no VR on release, etc.. Guys, we getting a new sim in about a years time....
    Robin
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