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  1. #51
    SOH-CM-2018 Mickey D's Avatar
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    Aussieman. Nels Anderson and Flightsim.com are not, and never have been connected to FSPilotshop. FS Pilotshop simply advertised via banner on the Flightsim.com site. FSPilotshop's last owner is/was Joshua Cox who I believe purchased the store from eDimensional. Unfortunately as a customer you are, along with developers, last in the pecking order. You can email Joshua Cox here <joshua@blackpoint.us>; but if we devs can't get a reply from him I'm sure you won't.

    You really should check accusations are correct before you post and as you accused Nels publicly here I feel you should apologise publicly on the Flightsim.com forum.

    Check out Nels' post here https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showt...SHOP-com/page2
    Last edited by Mickey D; November 6th, 2019 at 08:56.
    MickeyD

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by AussieMan View Post
    I have sent another email to Nels Anderson with a copy of a purchase I made from fspilotshop. The purchase in shown below and not a very cheap item either as the price works out to nearly $100 Australian:


    Since you're all talking about me here I just wanted to chime in. I do believe I answered your email (I get a lot...) and unfortunately there is nothing I can do about orders placed at FSPilotShop. While we used to run ads for them we are not involved in the actual running of the business and do not have any of their records. We've been unable to get any reply from them for quite some time now. I'm afraid you're one of many people they've left in the lurch. They owe me far, far more than they do you and I doubt I'll ever see any of it.

    --Nels Anderson
    FlightSim.Com


  3. #53
    SOH Staff .."Bartender" AussieMan's Avatar
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    Thanks for clearing things up Nels and MickeyD. And MickeyD I was not making accusations as when I purchased from the FSPilotshop I was clicking on a button named "FSPilotshop" that has since changed to "Store".

    Since things are now clearer I will no longer post here but will try to get in touch with Joshua Cox (No relation thankfully) and deal directly with him if he answers my email.

    Also I do apologise to you Nels for any misunderstanding on my part.

    It appears that this is the second FS shop that has disappeared owing developers money.

    Lesson learn't out of this episode. always buy direct from the developer where possible.


    Cheers
    Pat


    "Some people might say that freedom is being alone in the bush with the only sounds being the murmurs from the birds ... but I believe freedom is at 5000 feet with no other sound than the engine roaring."- William Hutchison, a young man taken from us far too young (16).

  4. #54
    SOH-CM-2019
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    Nels sorry to hear about your difficulties re: this vendor of your work but I'll take this opportunity to thank you for all you've done for us sim users over the years, your efforts are appreciated. At least you will derive a little good feeling out of this otherwise unfortunate mess.

  5. #55

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by AussieMan View Post
    Lesson learn't out of this episode. always buy direct from the developer where possible.
    I'd really appreciate it if you would un-learn that lesson!

    This isn't the first store to go away, and developers have gone away too. Way back when "Flight Sim Central" was the store we ran ads for, but they also went out of business owing us thousands of dollars. You'd need a long memory to recall them.

    Please consider that websites like SOH and FlightSim.Com need funding to provide the services you use. Shopping in our FlightSim.Com Store helps provide that funding that keeps our community going. Bypass the store and go straight to the developer and you're no longer supporting the community that you are part of.

    --Nels Anderson
    FlightSim.Com

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradburger View Post
    Just came across this video on YouTube: -

    https://store.flightsim.com/

    Cheers

    Paul
    The video author still seems to be holding out hope that FSPilotShop will return. The reason he got an error trying to reach their web site is because they've let their domain name expire. Anyone who does that is not coming back.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by NelsAnderson View Post
    I'd really appreciate it if you would un-learn that lesson!

    This isn't the first store to go away, and developers have gone away too. Way back when "Flight Sim Central" was the store we ran ads for, but they also went out of business owing us thousands of dollars. You'd need a long memory to recall them.

    Please consider that websites like SOH and FlightSim.Com need funding to provide the services you use. Shopping in our FlightSim.Com Store helps provide that funding that keeps our community going. Bypass the store and go straight to the developer and you're no longer supporting the community that you are part of.

    --Nels Anderson
    FlightSim.Com
    Could you please elaborate a little more on how this works? Does FlightSim.com get a percentage of the sales at the store? I do beg to differ though on your statement about going to the developer though, if I choose to go directly in some instances it still supports the community that I am member of.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by NelsAnderson View Post
    Bypass the store and go straight to the developer and you're no longer supporting the community that you are part of.

    --Nels Anderson
    FlightSim.Com

    Not sure I agree with that. It implies that forum users won't contribute to the forums they use, if they buy from the developers. I don't think this is so.

  10. #60
    Nels,

    Up front, I am not posting to seek recompense for anything, as I have no loss to claim as a buyer from FSPilotShop. I do have backups of everything including the codes for everything I purchased from them and in fact stopped buying from then back in 2015 when things started to go bad.

    I purchased many things on FSPilotShop thinking that the store was part of flightsim.com. The site was accessed via a "Store" button on your home page. I am not the only person to believe this based on comments on this thread. Nowhere did the webpage ever imply that FSPilotShop was not part of flightsim.com. That said, you have some blame for the unfortunate hit taken by flightsim.com because of the closure of the store associated/integrated into your webpage.

    Now, is the new store, linked to the "Store" button part of flightsim.com or is it another 3rd party vendor that you will take no responsibility for in the future?

    Thankyou for this soapbox,

    Dave

  11. #61
    SOH-CM-2019 MrZippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKinkor View Post
    Could you please elaborate a little more on how this works? Does FlightSim.com get a percentage of the sales at the store? I do beg to differ though on your statement about going to the developer though, if I choose to go directly in some instances it still supports the community that I am member of.
    I would ask how does your buying something straight from the developer support any of the 3 major flightsim forums and help to keep their servers running? The same goes for the crazy popup ads that you might see on some sites. Google pays the sites for their popup ads to be displayed hoping you may take an interest and click on them. The more clicks, the more money they give to the forum sites.

    It's a very good habit to donate to whatever site you use on a once a year basis, at least!
    Charlie the "Balldude" Running FSX With SP1 and SP2 2GHZ processor with 2Gbits Memory Computer running Windows EXPEE (This is not a bladder condition)

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by MrZippy View Post
    I would ask how does your buying something straight from the developer support any of the 3 major flightsim forums and help to keep their servers running? The same goes for the crazy popup ads that you might see on some sites. Google pays the sites for their popup ads to be displayed hoping you may take an interest and click on them. The more clicks, the more money they give to the forum sites.

    It's a very good habit to donate to whatever site you use on a once a year basis, at least!
    Just a thought: because buying directly from the developer removes the margin that the resellers take. Buying directly from the developer also ensures that they actually get what they deserve without other organizations skimming off. Buying directly from the developers might even reduce prices, thereby supporting the flightsim community.

    Just ask farmers what the effect is of all the middle men in the distribution of their products. Farmers don't get an honest price anymore.

    Priller

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Priller View Post
    Just a thought: because buying directly from the developer removes the margin that the resellers take. Buying directly from the developer also ensures that they actually get what they deserve without other organizations skimming off. Buying directly from the developers might even reduce prices, thereby supporting the flightsim community
    Priller
    Maybe "community" needs to be defined. I see SOH as a flightsim community, as is FlightSim.Com and other web sites. Those are the communities I was thinking of in my previous post. All these community web sites need some form of financial support to keep running.

    FlightSim.Com over the years has been primarily funded through what are called "affiliate sales". We align with one or more stores, help them promote products and they pay us in return. Our first affiliation was with Flight Sim Central, who went out of business with no warning. We were briefly affiliated with Simmarket but ended up being affiliated with FSPilotshop, which worked well while eDimensional was the owner but not so much after they sold out and the new owner took over. We are also affiliated with Amazon though we don't run all that many ads for them.

    We now own the store we run, which is why it's on our domain as https://store.flightsim.com and not under another name. Developers can sell on their own, but consider that they get benefits by selling through a store. We provide exposure to the flightsim community for products our store sells via news, reviews, banner ads, social media posts, our newsletter as well as through the store itself. We often create the banners, sale graphics, etc. for the developers. We're working for the cut that we take and I think everyone benefits: the developers reach a larger audience, flightsimmers get exposed to add-ons they are interested in, and our community web site gets funding we need to continue running.

  14. #64
    For those that may not understand how this works. Shops like FS Pilotshop and many others take a percentage commission revenue off every sale. This can be up to 35% of the retail price of the product. The developer or publisher receives the balance, either monthly or in some cases, quarterly. It would depend on the developer or the publisher but we are indeed talking about many thousands of dollars here.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by NelsAnderson View Post
    Maybe "community" needs to be defined. I see SOH as a flightsim community, as is FlightSim.Com and other web sites. Those are the communities I was thinking of in my previous post. All these community web sites need some form of financial support to keep running.

    FlightSim.Com over the years has been primarily funded through what are called "affiliate sales". We align with one or more stores, help them promote products and they pay us in return. Our first affiliation was with Flight Sim Central, who went out of business with no warning. We were briefly affiliated with Simmarket but ended up being affiliated with FSPilotshop, which worked well while eDimensional was the owner but not so much after they sold out and the new owner took over. We are also affiliated with Amazon though we don't run all that many ads for them.

    We now own the store we run, which is why it's on our domain as https://store.flightsim.com and not under another name. Developers can sell on their own, but consider that they get benefits by selling through a store. We provide exposure to the flightsim community for products our store sells via news, reviews, banner ads, social media posts, our newsletter as well as through the store itself. We often create the banners, sale graphics, etc. for the developers. We're working for the cut that we take and I think everyone benefits: the developers reach a larger audience, flightsimmers get exposed to add-ons they are interested in, and our community web site gets funding we need to continue running.

    One thing that Nels isnt saying which is super helpful for devs.... They look after the international tax hooplah and transaction issues and in the case of devs who dont have server space : server space . In fact stores allow some developers ( we are one of them ) to sell to euro block customers. The EU VAT system is a minefield for a small company trying to sell to a euro customer. We simply dont do it ourselves which means you cant buy directly from us. The cost of a tax accountant alone would add quite a bit to the end price. Devs that do allow EU purchases are doing all that as well as developing. We'd rather be developing only.

    This store loss is an unfortunate set of circumstances. The Developers are out of pocket , the affiliates are out of pocket , the advertisers may have lost money and the end customer is no longer able to download their rightly purchased product. ( backing up aside, a customer should in 2019 have access to the product they purchased ) and the industry as a whole ( stores and devs ) takes a hit.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Priller View Post
    Buying directly from the developers might even reduce prices, thereby supporting the flightsim community.
    That's exactly my plan when I get all my sound packs on my own store. Because I won't have to get so much skimmed off, wait for late payments and the general hassle of dealing with yet another store, I'll be able to offer my sound packs for around 5 bux and still make enough to keep things going.

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