Where is the gremlin?
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Thread: Where is the gremlin?

  1. #1
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    Icon5 Where is the gremlin?


    Hello to all!
    I have a problem and I am sorry for the long post. I will try to explain the problem and the solutions I have tried to
    rectify it. I am at my wits end. And am hoping someone has some insight.

    THE PROBLEM: Something on my system is throwing random commands, causing all sorts of problems. But NOT all the time. It is intermittent and does not always happen every time the computer is rebooted.

    THE SYSTEM: Year old Alienware Aurora R7, 3.7GHz turbo processor, 16 GB RAM, Nvidia 1080 Ti 11GB, 256GB SSD, 2TB HHD,
    optical drive.

    1. Windows 10 on SSD, USB Alienware plugable keyboard and mouse.

    2. FSX Gold, ASN, Ai carriers, FSUIPC registered, ORBX vector, global Socal, Norcal + others on 1TB partition on HDD.Various and many Payware aircraft. No freeware.

    3.Peripherals: Saitek Rhino X55 HOTAS( programmed thru Saitek programming software, 6 Saitek FIPs, Saitek switch panel, radio panel and multipanel using Saitek and Logitech drivers. 1 Thrustmaster MFD with key commands thru FSX, CH pedals, and Track IR. These are in USB 3.0 powered hub and in the computer's USB ports.
    WHAT HAPPENED: The system started throwing random commands while I was working with mu FSX folder. It got messed up with some folders missing. These missing folders were restored using a "dummy install".

    Once FSX was working again:

    THIS IS WHAT I DID:

    1. Unplugged every peripheral from the computer, except keyboard and mouse.

    2. Removed every plane except default fom my FSX.

    3. Shut down and restarted.

    4. Flew FSX with several default planes without problems. Then with ASN: no problem. Then with ASN and AI carriers running: no problem.

    5. Replaced 4 payware planes one at a time with testing as in #4 above. No problems even after shutdown/ start up several times.

    6. Then I reconnected the 6 FIPs (connected thru powered hub) and tested as in #4 and #5 above. No problems.

    7. Then reconnected the Switch panel, Muti panel and radio panel (connected to USB ports on front of machine) and tested as in #4, #5, #6 above. NOTE: had trouble getting Switch panel to be recognized in Control panel :devices. Plugging and unplugging had no effect so left it unplugged. No problems.

    8. Plugged Switch panel into charging port on hub and it was recognized. Tested as in #s 4,5,6. Random commands being thrown.

    I unplugged the panel and tested again. No problem. SO you would think that it was the switch panel as I did. .

    9. Went to install a repaint I did and guess what? Random commands being thrown EVEN after repeated shut donw/start up.
    So this is where I stand: Back to Square One.

    Any one have any ideas? What should I do next?

    I appreciate any light that can be shed on this.

    Cheers, Joe

  2. #2
    Did you try with another kayboard and mouse?
    alx

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  3. #3
    Do you use an external powersource for your USB devices?

    If you plug in too many USB devices into one hub, make sure that the hub can deliver the power required for the devices to run. The hub will shut down devices when the current exceeds the limits. The only way to bypass this is by using an external power connector with either the hub or the devices you use.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by alx View Post
    Did you try with another kayboard and mouse?
    Yes I have used an older Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse at first because I prefer not being tangled in wires.

    The behavior of the system with that was the same as the behavior now: some times random commands/sometimes not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitus View Post
    Do you use an external powersource for your USB devices?

    If you plug in too many USB devices into one hub, make sure that the hub can deliver the power required for the devices to run. The hub will shut down devices when the current exceeds the limits. The only way to bypass this is by using an external power connector with either the hub or the devices you use.
    Yes. It is a powered hub. I have at various times plugged the hub into the USB 2 And USB 3 ports into the back of the computer. Makes no difference to the problem.

    Joe

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    Last night I got a chance to try out my repaint. I had to reboot the computer because it was shut down from before.

    The Switch panel, multipanel and radio panel were NOT plugged in. With this reboot there were no problems flying for about 15 minutes or so. But I was not using ASN or AI Carriers as I only wanted to check the repaint.

    joe

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jmfabio View Post
    Yes. It is a powered hub. I have at various times plugged the hub into the USB 2 And USB 3 ports into the back of the computer. Makes no difference to the problem.

    Joe
    Just to follow up on this: make sure that the power supplies you use can provide enough current. Because some ~1-2 amps might not be enough for all this equipment.

  8. #8
    I have had issues with too many Saitek devices on one hub, the problem was the hub did not have enough power for all devices, you may need to split them between multiple hubs.
    Joe Cusick
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    Vitus and blanston:

    I will pull out and old USB 2.0 powered hub and use it in conjunction with the one already in use. Will report back.

    Thanks, Joe

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmfabio View Post
    Vitus and blanston:

    I will pull out and old USB 2.0 powered hub and use it in conjunction with the one already in use. Will report back.
    I only have the default planes and a handful of payware in the Airplanes folder currently. The other night as I am adding more planes (one at a time) to check out the behavior of the sim, I moved the AH P-47 back in. I selected it for free flight at Friday Harbor. The plane did not fully show up in the sim ( see through, not all textures, etc.) and I started experiencing random commands. Exited FS, took AH P-47 out of airplanes folder and shut down. Reboot/shut down several times did not solve the random command problem.

    In the search window key strokes U = I G and a couple of others get typed randomly.

    Last night I had (As per post) tried out my repaint. No problem. I did not shut down the computer.

    Just now (in between things) I pulled out an older hub (it was USB 3) plugged it into the back of the computer, and split my devices between them. I took four out of the one hub and placed those four into the additional hub. I only had 6 FIP plugged in, no switch, no radio, no multi panel.

    When I booted the computer not all the devices powered up although the blue lights on the hub were on indicating they were. In printers and devices, 5 out of the 6 showed as installed.

    I decided to move the AH P-47 back in then fly. Again the P-47 does not show up in the game correctly even though it shows well in the preview window.
    Again I experienced random commands to the point where I exited and shut down. Several reboot/shutdowns did not kill the random commands so it is shut down in long time out. Also the FIPs did not show any gauges,

    I am not saying anything is wrong with the AH P-47. I have used it in the past successfully and I like it.

    BUT I find it curious that it doesn't show correctly. And it caused the problem at least twice. I have not changed my settings in a long time and have been getting 25 FPS locked at 25 forever.


    Can it be a temperature issue?

    This reminds me of a similar issue I had last year not too long after I got the computer.

    I really don't want to wipe out the hard drives and reinstall operating system and everything else but I see that as a distinct necessity as this bad machine behavior wears on me.

    I think what I will do next is to take out all the Saitek peripherals except joystick and throttle. And experiment.

    Any other suggestions?

    Thanks, Joe

  11. #11
    Do you have any expansion slots on your motherboard to put in a USB card to gain more USB ports instead of using hubs.
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by airtj View Post
    Do you have any expansion slots on your motherboard to put in a USB card to gain more USB ports instead of using hubs.
    I will have to check.

  13. #13
    Virus?

    You keep saying random commands are being input. So it seems to me this has nothing to do with FSX, it looks like it's a Windows thing, and that you can see the commands being typed in a keyboard logger. Have you installed any programs recently?

    Seems to me the FIRST thing I would do is go with wired controllers. It's very possible that random spikes are hitting the wireless controllers, or that you're picking up a signal from somewhere else.

    Also, I don't know your motherboard, but I believe typically MB's have 2 or 3 USB controllers. Perhaps you could split up some of your devices across multiple USB controllers. If they are all going through one, perhaps it's getting overloaded by all the devices going through it?

  14. #14
    Possibly a RAM or virtual memory issue?

    Ttfn

    Pete

  15. #15
    Might be one of 'those' Win 10 problems......just saying.
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    I am with Wombat on this one. This is a classic operating system issue which merely controls the way all hardware works with each other bit of hardware via software. Appears something is out of whack on the addresses being accessed and the commands being sent. I suspect the mouse or keyboard is the core issue here. Here is why just recently there were some updates done on various MS systems, i use one at home and where I work they have the usual heavy duty corporate networked system. Something has changed in the way the mouse relates to onscreen click points, either in HTML or just plain windows operation. You move the mouse and suddenly windows does something completely unexpected like opening up or shutting something down - simple as that but the mouse movements are now very quick indeed so you only need to move it a fraction and it will do this but it is random or so it seems except that it happens a lot now, never noticed windows behaving like this before at home or at work, curiously they still use Win7 at work as I do at home, Windows 10 might be doing something differently again. Answer I have not but at times it drives me nuts, shutting stuff down when I move the mouse and that was not the action sought or requested.

  17. #17
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    I have taken all the Saitek/Logitech FIPs and panels off line and am only using pedals, Hotas and TrackIR. Since I have had no problems with any of the aforementioned problems. I have had several flights with several different aircraft. All is fine, for now.

    I am using a wired keyboard and mouse having given up the wireless when the problem started.

    FlyingsCool: McAfee says all is fine. Protected and no virus found. I never download anything or surf the net on this computer in question. The only time it is connected is when I use ASN. I do all my downloading on my laptop and transfer files via thumb drive. I will not say a virus is not possible, but it is highly unlikely. In all my near thirty years of computing I have never been infected. (Knock wood).

    Motormouse: not sure but will have to check. previously on my Win 7 machine with 8 GB RAM I hardly every had a VAS issue because of the way I fly. Due to Physical problems I can only last about 45-60 min in the chair. No long flights.

    Wombat and BendyFlyer: You two may be on to something, especially Bendyflyer with the quick mouse movements. During my recent moving of planes from hangar to simobjects folder, I thought I had "grabbed" one folder and in fact "grabbed" the one above it. Weird mouse movement? I will be sure to see that Win 10 is updated.

    I greatly appreciate the suggestions and help.

    Joe

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jmfabio View Post

    Motormouse: not sure but will have to check. previously on my Win 7 machine with 8 GB RAM I hardly every had a VAS issue because of the way I fly. Due to Physical problems I can only last about 45-60 min in the chair. No long flights.

    Wombat and BendyFlyer: You two may be on to something, especially Bendyflyer with the quick mouse movements. During my recent moving of planes from hangar to simobjects folder, I thought I had "grabbed" one folder and in fact "grabbed" the one above it. Weird mouse movement? I will be sure to see that Win 10 is updated.

    I greatly appreciate the suggestions and help.

    Joe
    Sounds like a classic RAM issue to me, it's RAM and Virtual Memory that is used mostly, sounds like you are getting commands stacked in memory, that are then being called out of sync. There's a few free RAM checking utilities out there on the interweb.

    Edit: Win 10 has one built in....


    https://www.windowscentral.com/how-c...windows-10?amp

    Ttfn

    Pete

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motormouse View Post
    Sounds like a classic RAM issue to me, it's RAM and Virtual Memory that is used mostly, sounds like you are getting commands stacked in memory, that are then being called out of sync. There's a few free RAM checking utilities out there on the interweb.

    Edit: Win 10 has one built in....


    https://www.windowscentral.com/how-c...windows-10?amp

    Ttfn

    Pete
    Thanks for the info and the link. Am doing an extended test as I type. We will see what shows up.

    Thanks,
    Joe

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmfabio View Post
    Thanks for the info and the link. Am doing an extended test as I type. We will see what shows up.

    Thanks,
    Joe
    After 2 extended RAM tests no errors were reported.

    What the next plan of action will be is to replace aircraft and test each one until all are back in. Then add Saitek peripherals and test after each one to see if I can determine the one that is causing the problem.

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