What's Going On?

[tgycgijoes]

I am trying to land the F4B-2 Pursuit by A.f. Scrub in FSX Acceleration (and it doesn't matter what aircraft carrier I land on) I make a beautiful approach; I used the Nimitz by Javier and the Forrestal from here and get green lights and the meatball. Land on the deck beautifully hook a wire and then it noses over on to the deck and crashes. Every time! I checked the lengths of the hooks on the F8C and the AH F3F thinking if I adjust the hook maybe thart would make a difference. The F8C has an 8 foot hook and the AH F3F 2002/4 a 3.8 foot hook so I tried both and its original 6 foot; the 4 foot or the 8 foot make no difference. I am at wits end. I don't just want to chuck the aircraft and say aw phooey. Anybody got any ideas what I need to adjust?

[TailHook]
tailhook_length=6 ;(feet)
tailhook_position=-13.6, 0.0, -0.9 ;(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum
cable_force_adjust=1.0

[delta_lima]

I’m not into older 30s biplanes, but am familiar with the challenges of other taildraggers. Nosing over clearly is indicative of excess velocity and consequent momentum exceeding the restraining force of the cables.

So assuming the hook attachment point and length is correct, check some basics:

What’s you fuel state?
What’s your wind over the deck?
What’s your airspeed?

On a biplane that’s lightly loaded, I’m guessing your approach speed should be south of 60 kts. So with some WOD, your velocity differential WRT the carrier’s should be minimal. So with a carrier doing 25 kts steaming into a 10kt wind, your closing speed WRT your touchdown point is now only 25-30 kts.

That should allow you to settle onto the cables lightly enough.

Try the Flying Stations Fairey Swordfish. Under the above conditions, you’ll be almost in hover WRT your touchdown spot.

[tgycgijoes]

I will try that...if I am too slow, I don't make the deck with this aircraft so maybe it IS the aircraft but I will try and cut the throttle as soon as the hook grabs.

[tgycgijoes]

I have come to the conclusion that this is a hopeless cause. I would like someone who is an accomplished fs carrier aviator to try to make a carrier landing and not nose over because no matter what I do including F2 to kill the throttle I trap, it hooks a wire beautifully and then spins and or noses over or both. As far as the aircraft goes, the exterior is beautiful the VC leaves much to be desired and the 2D is great but its not easy to fly carrier landings in a 2D cockpit at least for me its not. I'll watch for posts from somebody who can do a successful trap and not nose over here.

[PhantomTweak]

Don't adjust the length of the tailhook. Try adjusting the distance it's behind the plane.

[TailHook]
tailhook_length=6 ;(feet)
tailhook_position=-13.6, 0.0, -0.9 ;(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum
cable_force_adjust=1.0

Most particularly

tailhook_position=-13.6, 0.0, -0.9 ;(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum

Try adjusting the -13.6 value to - 18.6, and see what effect it has. If necessary, keep moving it back until the plane behaves properly. If making it more negative worsens the condition, try making it more positive. Sounds intuitive, buuuuutttt...

Naturally, having the right conditions set up is vital. Airspeed, WOD, ship's speed, weight, etc, etc.

Hope this might help a bit
Pat☺

[tgycgijoes]

I will try the length. There is a speed problem with the F4B-2 Pursuit in that if you cut your speed it doesn't make the deck. It also has very poor visibility from the VC. The 2D is beautiful. Wished he had done the VC like the 2D and you could see the deck approaching. I can try getting 30 knots of wind across the deck by custom weather in FSX. So much I've forgotten in 50 years.

[tgycgijoes]

I tried to adjust the length in both directions and no matter what it still nosed in after landing. I just got through doing a beautiful 3-wire on Forrestal in my AH F3F-1 and that is what I am going to fly moving the SARA up to 1936 with the other aircraft in the airgroup. No more F B Four. Thank you guys for trying to help but I'm not spending any more time with it. IMO its a write-off in FSX(A). I needed that landing for my self-esteem and peace of mind its not me. LOL!

[delta_lima]

I tried to adjust the length in both directions and no matter what it still nosed in after landing. I just got through doing a beautiful 3-wire on Forrestal in my AH F3F-1 and that is what I am going to fly moving the SARA up to 1936 with the other aircraft in the airgroup. No more F B Four. Thank you guys for trying to help but I'm not spending any more time with it. IMO its a write-off in FSX(A). I needed that landing for my self-esteem and peace of mind its not me. LOL!

Are you flying straight in?


The F4U and Seafires, with their long noses, were landed in this manner for the very visibility issue you point out. Not sure if it was employed pre WWII, but it’ll make a huge difference if you have visibility issues.

And also jack up your seat a bit.

EDIT - it's entirely possible that the airfile/flight charachteristics are also not well modelled.

You never posted your fuel state and touchdown speeds. I'll assume you were flying with 10-15% fuel remaining.

Knowing the minimum indicated airspeed you can comfortably hold on approach would be a very important data point. If it could hold 60ish kts, then I'd say there's a chance the flight model's not too shabby. But if you're coming aboard the ship at 100 kts or more, then indeed, it's a flight model issue and needs to be addressed.

[tgycgijoes]

I really appreciate your help. I feel that the airfile was not well modeled which comment I got by PM from a couple of flyers so I am shelving the F4B4 as hopless at least as far as I'm concerned in favor of the F3F-1 from Aeroplane Heaven. Obviously a much better model because its probably 5-6 years newer. I just put it on the deck and hooked the first time and at 100 knots so I could bolter if I needed to. Didn't need to and it didn't even hint at a nose over. Next the SBU-1 by Paul Clawson is sweet and it was no problem either. Then, the BF2C by Ivan Hsu, ah a different story. My wife told me to quit after a couple hours of frustration. I hope I found the solution that A.F. Scrub's FSX/P3D here in the library will solve with updates. Ivan's is as skittish as the F4B4 was and I didn't get it to hook once even though I was on the deck. Almost gave up on having it in the airgroup until I discovered a much more up to date one. I'm calling it quits for the night but I am going to install the downloads including a brand new panel all by Scrubby and will make comments here tomorrow on its merits in my opinion anyway. I am counting on both a fresh outlook and Scrubby's talent.

[falcon409]

If you decide to retry the F4B-2 let me know, I'm in the process of retexturing the entire airplane with higher resolution textures.

F4B_Cockpit-2019-jul-13-001 by Ed Wells, on Flickr

[COBS]

Try turning OFF crash detection .

Cheers
Karol

[tgycgijoes]

Try turning OFF crash detection .

Cheers
Karol

My crash detection is always off because you cannot fly multi-player formation with it on. That's not the issue but thank you

[tgycgijoes]

Sadly the Scrubbs updated BF2C has a nose over issue as well. I even swapped out the airfile with a good carrier landing aircraft that is similar and also changed the tailhook position and it behaves just like the F4B. Too bad too because on land it is a beautiful flier. Tried it out for handling around the airport before going out to sea and it seemed to behave fine. Also it wobbles all over in the air in a strong wind so you can't get 30 knots of wind across the deck. Maybe it wasn't meant to be a carrier aircraft by Hsu because he created it to honor China-Japanese War aces. Scrubby didn't do anything to the airfile that I could tell because his FSX update was only the aircraft.cfg. Not spending any time on it and waste my day off. Anyone else want to try and update it to work on a carrier please post here for us all to share. That goes for that F4B as well.

[Motormouse]

Sounds to me, more likely incorrectly set contact points.

Milton is the guru for those.

Ttfn

Pete

[tgycgijoes]

Sounds to me, more likely incorrectly set contact points.

Milton is the guru for those.

Ttfn

Pete

Even if I figured out how to keep the nose overs from occuring and these were Paul Clawsons aircraft and also Ivan Hsu not Milton Shupe. I have never had a problem with any of his G7 S2F project aircraft landing on carriers. The VC's in everyone of these except AH's F3F are really poor and with the gunsight telescope totally in the way and no way removable because its in the model, I have made the decision today to return to my Shorts 360 and land-based airports where flight simming is fun and not frustrating as it should be. I had a lot of fun repainting the F8C and really am quite disappointed in the end of a full week's work on all of these. Thanks to all of you each and everyone for taking the time to help me with issues I hadn't a clue how to address. I learned a lot especially about attach points in MDCx. Got the carrier working great when I could see the deck to land on and not too fast or too short...etc.etc.etc. as Yule Brenner said in The King And I.

[tgycgijoes]

If you decide to retry the F4B-2 let me know, I'm in the process of retexturing the entire airplane with higher resolution textures.

F4B_Cockpit-2019-jul-13-001 by Ed Wells, on Flickr

Thanks Ed but the textures are not the problem, one person says air file and another contact points in the aircraft.cfg. In any case, I am returning to my Shorts 360 and Air Cargo Carriers schedules from airports not "postage stamps" and I'm a real life former carrier sailor. You airforce guys I remember used to say that.

[falcon409]

Thanks Ed but the textures are not the problem, one person says air file and another contact points in the aircraft.cfg. . . . . .

I understand that the textures aren't the problem, I like most of A.F.'s models and I have several of this era. I saw you mention that the VC left much to be desired and so I took a look at it, decided to work on it and simply mentioned that "IF" you decided to come back to it this was available. Sorry it didn't work for you.

[Dangerousdave26]

Sounds to me, more likely incorrectly set contact points.

Milton is the guru for those.

Ttfn

Pete

Your correct. Sounds like bad contact points and bad tail hook positioning. If I were trying to fix it I would place static lights on the contact points to see where they really are in the model. From there you could move them around easy.

[tgycgijoes]

I hate leaving somewhere a quitter so I reloaded my AH F3F native and trying to put it down on a postage stamp Forrestal to start. My problem with every one of the freeware biplanes was no front visibility. AH put in a really nice landing panel looking over the telescopic sight as a camera view I gave a hotpointselect so you can see the carrier and the flightdeck. I have to get my speed/elevation down pat and will probably not fly much more tonight. If you want to PM me a download link, Ed I will certainly look at what you took the time to do for sure. I wonder if that camera view can be added to the F4B to look over the telescopic sight.

[tgycgijoes]

I am ending the evening on a good note as you can see from the attached two screenshots. Feels good to get on the deck right. I am going to practice more to get the feel of the speed and altitude and aoa and then go and start doing carquals on my CV3 Saratoga conversion.

[Motormouse]

Even if I figured out how to keep the nose overs from occuring and these were Paul Clawsons aircraft and also Ivan Hsu not Milton Shupe. I have never had a problem with any of his G7 S2F project aircraft landing on carriers.

Didn't mean it was Milton's fault, just meant for adjusting bad contact points, Milton is best person to assist.

Ttfn

Pete

[tgycgijoes]

My mistake, I misunderstood what you were saying.

[tgycgijoes]

With this in mind I swapped out the aircraft.cfg of a working biplane from General down with the F4B Pursuit and you can see the results.

1. It flies great
2. I can see better in the VC cockpit
3. The tailhook works perfectly hooking am FSX wire no rcbco-30 required
4. No nose over settles down to the deck and the hook retracts automatically
5. Original air file and model

Makes this a keeper instead of a trasher.

Here is the screenshot proof and a happy flier

[tgycgijoes]

Just sub'bed the aircraft.cfg into the BF2C and it too now works perfectly. First time hooked a wire on the Forrestal no nose over. Full fuel and it is still a little hot landing to keep air over the wings. Now that I know I solved the nose over I will see how slow I can go before stalling out into the stern. in both F4B and BF2C