Early Messerschmitt Bf109 B, C and D in progress.

[Shessi]

How about this then Huub...

Closer I think, certainly a Bf109, operational, no mud or snow, AND in colour...


I don't know, tyres were made out of more rubber than today's 'hoops', and rubber oxidises in high UV and heat, changing colour and sheen. Taff's b&w 109E looks too uniform to be wear or colour/shade different to me, this colour pic could be ww tyres and this b&w pic well hmmmm???......look you've got me at it now!!!

Are we this sad, us going on about ww tyres, I'm laughing just typing this..lol

I'll tell you what, I'll put both tyre texs in the release and you can choose.

Cheers

Shessi

[huub vink]

Personally I think the weather is ideal to discuss a light topic as white wall tires (yesterday we did hit 40 Celsius/140 Fahrenheit). It at least keeps my mind occupied, so I don't think about the heat.

Your colour picture is from the same thread at britmodeller, so what I said in my previous post applies here as well.

During WWII nearly all German tires were synthetic. The aircraft tires were made from BuNa-S compound (Styrol-Butadien-Kautschuk). Where Bu stands for Butadiene (the polumer) and the Na stand for Natrium (Sodium) (the Catalysis). In 1940 already 70 percent of all tires were made of synthetic rubber, this increased already to 94% in 1943 and by 1944 Germany was fully depending on synthetic rubber.
From what I have understood these tires discoloured when exposed to UV and turned into a sort of purpelish shade of grey.

Cheers,
Huub

Did you know the British had white rims on the rear wheels and light grey tires on their Jeeps as well?

[llanning08]

Perhaps the answer is that tires exposed to sunlight constantly deteriorate, called "dry rot". This may be more pronounced in synthetic rubber lacking additive to protect from sun damage found in modern tires. This would tend occur more quickly in desert environments and with aircraft parked outdoors. Dry rot results in fading from black to gray and lighter. By painting the tires with more a reflective white paint, the damage would be reduced.

Hence, not true "white walls", but the white paint still appearing in old photos to be "white walls".

Just thinking ...

[Mick]

Perhaps the answer is that tires exposed to sunlight constantly deteriorate, called "dry rot". This may be more pronounced in synthetic rubber lacking additive to protect from sun damage found in modern tires. This would tend occur more quickly in desert environments and with aircraft parked outdoors. Dry rot results in fading from black to gray and lighter. By painting the tires with more a reflective white paint, the damage would be reduced.

Hence, not true "white walls", but the white paint still appearing in old photos to be "white walls".

Just thinking ...

You might be onto something there.

[aeronca1]

The North African sand is very different from the sand we "Northerners" know. It is very, very fine. It gets onto and into everything. That 109 looks like very dusty sides only. The bottoms look darker due to the "scuffing" effect while taking off and landing. The sun angle also enters the fray. I would say it is a synthetic tire used if a very dusty environment plain and simple. The WW effect is imagination only.

[huub vink]

Well perhaps a tiny bit back to the original subject.... There are many pictures from Condor Legion Bf109s with covered wheels. Sun/heat might have been a problem for these relatively small and narrow tires.

Cheers,
Huub

[jamminjames]

Can't wait for these!

[rgatkinson]

Nope, I think the covers were put there to stop the ground crew realising that the WW finish had faded and needed reapplying. The pilot, Otto von Dunlop, obviously had a dislike of WW tyres!

[huub vink]

Sorry Taff,
Although I'm not allowed to go into politics, but in this case you force me to. The Germans were strictly "Continental (AG)" when it came to tires .
And the pilot of this aircraft was not Otto van Dunlop, But Unteroffizier Johannes Schwarzreif

Below a preview of the VC of this model, Shessi already mailed me. Its of course still "work in progress", so the strange labels will most likely disappear.

Cheers,
Huub

[rgatkinson]

Ooooh, that VC looks very nice. Plenty of room for a small can of white paint and brush to be stored. Seriously though, very very nice work!

[Shessi]

It's close...can you smell it?

(And Taff that's a 109 cockpit photo not a VC, I don't want you to think that's what you're getting!!)

With the testers as we speak.


Shessi

[huub vink]

Ooooh, that VC looks very nice. Plenty of room for a small can of white paint and brush to be stored. Seriously though, very very nice work!

Sorry Taff,

Perhaps I should have given a warning, but its better not to believe everything said in this thread . The Picture in my previous post is actually a picture from the Flying Heritage Collection Bf109 E-3. Which is pretty original, but which has obviously been upgraded to Bf109 E-4 standard .

Cheers,
Huub

[mav]

True Huub... you can't believe everything in this thread.... but these early bf109's "DID" come with airbags!!!


Cheers mav

[rgatkinson]

What! No VC? I smell a whitewash

[Shessi]

Dohhh....I was just saying for you not to expect THAT quality of VC in the picture, of course there will be a VC, I'm not a complete heathen you know!

And coz I like em as well, there's one of the textures I'm including with ww tyres on!..., but sssshhh don't tell Huub...

Cheers

Shessi

[huub vink]

Daimler Benz powered objects with white wall tires look like this! Nice, but they don't fly (depending on your definition of flying....)
(Could't find anything decent, with tires like this, powered by a JuMo engine)

Cheers,
Huub

[Motormouse]

Sorry to burst your collective bubbles,
but the white sidewalls on the German tyres were a visual
indicator that the tyre was constructed to be electrically conductive, to discharge on touchdown static electricity charges built up in flight. Important as some bombs were electrically armed... and you wouldn't want to connect one up to an aeroplane unless you were sure no stray static charges were likely to be present.

Discussion about these tyres on ww2aircraft. net

Dunlop were marketing ECTA (electrically conductive) tyres in mid 1930's btw, nowadays, all aircraft tyres by construction are electrically conductive so we don't have to have them specifically marked (the carbon content of rubber compound is what makes them conductive).

Edit : make that Tailwheel tyres, mainwheel tyres had painted white walls to protect them in a hot environment, stipulated by D. (luft) T. 2109 part 9F

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread...88/post-798777

Ttfn

Pete

(Resident fixer of aeroplanes)

[HorusJ]

Poor Shessi. Your 109 has become the most controversial FS9 aircraft to date.

Very much looking forward too it!

J

[Motormouse]

Poor Shessi. Your 109 has become the most controversial FS9 aircraft to date.

Very much looking forward too it!

J

Indeed, but no controversy at all, its the continuous learning curve we are on as more and more things become unclassified as the years go by.

Ttfn

Pete

[huub vink]

Thanks for your clarification Pete. You learn something new every day here!

As the Bf109 couldn't carry bombs until the Bf109 E-4B version, there was no need for conductive tires until this version. But am I the only one who thinks its a bit complex to use conductive tires instead of an ordinary metal strip?

Cheers,
Huub

[Motormouse]

Thanks for your clarification Pete. You learn something new every day here!

As the Bf109 couldn't carry bombs until the Bf109 E-4B version, there was no need for conductive tires until this version. But am I the only one who thinks its a bit complex to use conductive tires instead of an ordinary metal strip?

Cheers,
Huub

Don't you just ... I'm guessing for ease of procurement that there was a standard issue tailwheel tyre used across several different
types / manufacturers and it was easier to specify use tyre X in all the manuals than specifying different tyres for different models ...
hence conductive tailwheel tyres are seen on models as diverse as Ju52 and Fieseler Storch, to Ju88 and Me109

ttfn

Pete

[huub vink]

It's close...can you smell it?

It becomes smellier every day.....