How to fly the Milviz ADV Phantom?

[Navy Chief]

Well, I have tried every suggested option. For months now, I have been using a Sidewinder 2 Force Feedback joystick with no problems on any other aircraft, in conjunction with a Saitek X52 throttle, and rudder pedals. But no matter what adjustments I have made with sensitivities, null settings, etc...., this ADV model is just not controllable (for me at least). I made sure trim settings were made. Everything. But I am not able to fly this aircraft as it is currently modeled. The external model and cockpit are beautiful, and the sound is extremely accurate. Having worked on F-4s for years, back in the mid 1970s, I can testify to the wonderful reproduction of those howling J79s!

I have to unfortunately throw in the towel on this one, though. I can look at it, and taxi it around; but fly it? I am not able to. I even temporarily replaced the Sidewinder FF joystick with my Saitek X52 joystick. But the same "bucking bronco" flight dynamics exist.

Navy Chief

[gary20]

The exact same here. Tried all of the suggestions with no luck.
I know someone will post it works fine for them … not sure what that means … but for me it doesn't fly.

[Naruto-kun]

One of these days I will get an update into it that the new T-38C has. DCS style control sensitivity curves in the MVAMS that allow a bit more hamfisted movements of physical hardware.

[StormILM]

One of these days I will get an update into it that the new T-38C has. DCS style control sensitivity curves in the MVAMS that allow a bit more hamfisted movements of physical hardware.

I tried everything as well and to no avail. To explain exactly what I am seeing, it is as if the wing fold function was in the fold position (even though the T-38 doesn't have this function) and it simply won't get airborne. The model drags it's tail on the runway, then the gear and engines fail. Never seen anything like this behavior before except when I had a model take off with folded wings.

[Navy Chief]

One of these days I will get an update into it that the new T-38C has. DCS style control sensitivity curves in the MVAMS that allow a bit more hamfisted movements of physical hardware.

"Hamfisted"? Love it! I most definitely appreciate that you may someday make some improvements to the control sensitivities. For old fogeys like me, having a easier option to fly the ADV Phantom would be a welcome solution. NC

[CavOk]

Is there an alternative to the Milviz model and if so how do people rate them?

[Naruto-kun]

I tried everything as well and to no avail. To explain exactly what I am seeing, it is as if the wing fold function was in the fold position (even though the T-38 doesn't have this function) and it simply won't get airborne. The model drags it's tail on the runway, then the gear and engines fail. Never seen anything like this behavior before except when I had a model take off with folded wings.

That smacks of a conflict from Ezdock. It affected all our ADV aircraft as it fights with the velocity values sent to the sim.

[Wings of Gold]

I , very reluctantly, abandoned this aircraft a few days ago because of the exact problems experienced by StormILM. If I disable my FFB stick, it makes no difference. I have NO other problems flying any other aircraft in my hangar. Hopefully Milviz will realize there is a real problem here.Bill

[Wings of Gold]

Well - I can get airborne, but then the Roller Coaster starts. Bill

[Naruto-kun]

Storm's problem sounds rather different to yours. Bit of a difference between being unable to get off the ground and unable to control. Just out of curiosity though, what addons are in your dll.xml file?

[Daube]

I'm just wondering, since the Phantom ADV flight model is external (not handled by the sim, but by an external DLL if I understood correctly...), could there be anything disturbing the interactions/communications between the sim and that DLL ?

For example, if I remember correctly, The A2A Accusim planes will handle quite badly if the simconnect libraries are not installed.
Could there be a similar reason for the strange behavior of the Phantom for some users ?

[odourboy]

Na, we're just all ham-fisted lugs.

Seriously though, a fair question. I have another: could we switch off the ADV FDE and use the sim with old .air file for those of us who need training wheels?

[Naruto-kun]

Assuming that the jet is operating properly all I can suggest is “learn the T-38” :evilgrin:

Can’t go back I’m afraid, as we stopped updating non ADV for P3Dv4. Although, if you wish to fly FSX, just use the base installer to uninstall and reinstall.

[odourboy]

Aside from the brakes lock-up which I'm waiting for the fix to be released, I can fly the T38C just fine thank you. Its a bit twitchy but light years easier than the F4.

[CavOk]

Ok guys I've been experimenting. Try this alternative flight tuning in the cfg file

[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar = 1
parasite_drag_scalar = 1
induced_drag_scalar = 1
elevator_effectiveness = 0.5 //0
aileron_effectiveness = 0.5 //0
rudder_effectiveness = 0.8 //0
pitch_stability = 1.6 //1.3 //1
roll_stability = 1
yaw_stability = 1.6 //1
elevator_trim_effectiveness = 1.0 //0
aileron_trim_effectiveness = 1
rudder_trim_effectiveness = 1

Seems to be less twitchy. Nose up trim changes with flap has to be anticipated which is perhaps normal.

[Naruto-kun]

@odourboy the latest update through the MVAMS for the T-38C solves the brake lockup.

@CavOk Modifying aircraft cfg and air files is one of the items I listed that absolutely WILL break the ADV model. We have had users who had the non ADV air file and aircraft cfg in their phantoms with the ADV dll active which made the aircraft totally unflyable because of the way the sim fights the external flight model.

[CavOk]

@odourboy the latest update through the MVAMS for the T-38C solves the brake lockup.

@CavOk Modifying aircraft cfg and air files is one of the items I listed that absolutely WILL break the ADV model. We have had users who had the non ADV air file and aircraft cfg in their phantoms with the ADV dll active which made the aircraft totally unflyable because of the way the sim fights the external flight model.

It seems to work for me and its an improvement on my rig

[odourboy]

@odourboy the latest update through the MVAMS for the T-38C solves the brake lockup.

@CavOk Modifying aircraft cfg and air files is one of the items I listed that absolutely WILL break the ADV model. We have had users who had the non ADV air file and aircraft cfg in their phantoms with the ADV dll active which made the aircraft totally unflyable because of the way the sim fights the external flight model.

I don't think the T-38C update has been released yet.. at least I havent yet been offered an update via MVAMS so far. I just tried again about 5 minutes ago and nada.

EDIT: Missed it on the support forum. Grabbed it, updated and the brakes are good now!

[Naruto-kun]

Grab from the support forums then.

CavOk I hear ya and that’s great, but alert to anyone else who tries: if things get worse, I can only recommend that you stick to the original files.

[Daube]

Small question about the F4-E: do you guys hear the Sidewinder low-pitch growl as soon as you take off, even though the master switch is on safe ?

[Naruto-kun]

That’s deliberate. If you have the missile selection switch in HEAT position, you will get the growl even with the master arm off.

[Daube]

Ha, thanks for the info.
The blue HEAT light was indeed switched on, but I couldn't find any missile selection button in the pilot seat. Then I suppose I'll have to check the co-pilot seat instead, right ?

Ah, just one more minor thing while you're there: I started cold&dark, then connected the GPU.
After this, I switched both power switches down to let the external power come in. However, nothing happened. The alert panel stayed completely dark, until I switched one of the two engine master switches ON... Is that normal ? Shouldn't I get some lights in there as soon as I flip the power buttons (battery is up, external power in down, OFF in the middle, right?) ?

[Naruto-kun]

The missile selection switch is in the MVAMS. The real deal has it on the throttle, so it won’t be clickable in the pit.

The engine master switches are your main electrical power controls, as they control the 2 batteries. The 2 switches you are referring to are the generators, not the master batteries.

[Daube]

Ah, so then it means that even if I switch the generators to external power (down position), if the engine masters are not ON, I won't get any power in the plane ?
Thanks for the explanations about the missile selection switches. I'll take a look in the MVAMS. I had only configured the NWS so far, so I'll check the other commands.

[Naruto-kun]

Correct.
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