How to fly the Milviz ADV Phantom? - Page 2
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Thread: How to fly the Milviz ADV Phantom?

  1. #26
    Changing Air or aircraft cfg files (except for new flightsim entries for liveries) with our ADV models will absolutely make them unflyable, as the flight models are external, and the airfile specially tuned to stop the sim from fighting back. That reminds me of another possible issue. If the texture pack was added, I hope the aircraft cfg was not copied over, but rather just the flightsim entries.

    One other item I can also think of for P3D users: Make sure your control input source is set to DirectInput, not Raw.
    -JB

  2. #27
    And one other item for T-38C users: You can adjust response curves in the MVAMS ala DCS Control Config UI style. Leave sim sensitivity sliders at max, and do control sensitivity adjustments only from the MVAMS. I am planning on adding it to the F-4s.
    -JB

  3. #28
    I'll keep thinking of other possible causes but I am certain it is a configuration error on user side that is the cause of the over-sensitive controls. I just tested all the phantoms here, along with the T-38C, and even in out of trim conditions I found the jet to be quite easy to control. I really had to work to make it PIO and even then, the oscillations damped themselves out pretty quickly.
    -JB

  4. #29
    I'm afraid I've been struggling with the F4J for a few weeks and I find the aircraft unmanageable indeed unflyable hence unless the developers can come up with a fix the model will be deleted which is a great shame.

  5. #30
    Here is a list of things I can think of so far:

    1: Realism sliders need to be fully to the right (P3D/FSX realism settings, not the ADV config)
    2: Control input should be DirectInput, not Raw (P3D only)
    3: Axis sensitivity sliders not maxed (counterintuitive I know but I have seen funny things with this)
    4: Ezdok or other possible addon conflicting
    5: Turbulence enabled
    6: Weather addons generating too much turbulence
    7: Modified air/cfg files (big no no, except for adding liveries)
    -JB

  6. #31
    What about defining / calibrating axes via FSUIPC? I assume that may cause issues as well.

  7. #32
    Depends. If it is sent to the sim as a normal axis, that is fine. If it is sent direct to sim however, or to an offset, things will go haywire.
    -JB

  8. #33
    Just wanted to say that I had a delightful flight last evening in the F-4E ADV. It's been a while since testing and I reconfirmed how much I had enjoyed the testing back then.

    Make sure that you follow what Jon is saying to check your install and then make sure you work that trim. You won't regret it.

  9. #34
    I've been looking into the control issues more closely and discovered that the Joy Stick (Logitech Wingman Strike Force 3D) assignments I've made for P3D have not been duplicated into the Milviz Addon Management System. Hence for example the button on my control stick which normally controls elevator trim up in P3D has been reassigned in the Milviz AMS as flaps down. There are several other anomalies like this, its as if Milviz has renumbered the buttons on my Joy Stick.
    Anyone got ideas how to get round this?

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by CavOk View Post
    I've been looking into the control issues more closely and discovered that the Joy Stick (Logitech Wingman Strike Force 3D) assignments I've made for P3D have not been duplicated into the Milviz Addon Management System. Hence for example the button on my control stick which normally controls elevator trim up in P3D has been reassigned in the Milviz AMS as flaps down. There are several other anomalies like this, its as if Milviz has renumbered the buttons on my Joy Stick.
    Anyone got ideas how to get round this?
    I don't believe that there's a way around this. You're going to have to set all your switches/buttons in MVAMS.

    Dave

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by CavOk View Post
    I've been looking into the control issues more closely and discovered that the Joy Stick (Logitech Wingman Strike Force 3D) assignments I've made for P3D have not been duplicated into the Milviz Addon Management System. Hence for example the button on my control stick which normally controls elevator trim up in P3D has been reassigned in the Milviz AMS as flaps down. There are several other anomalies like this, its as if Milviz has renumbered the buttons on my Joy Stick. Anyone got ideas how to get round this?
    Clear all your Joystick assignments from the MVAMS and redo them. And make sure your P3D Input method is DirectInput, not Raw. Raw input enumerates things very differently to Direct, which the MVAMS uses.
    -JB

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Naruto-kun View Post
    Clear all your Joystick assignments from the MVAMS and redo them. And make sure your P3D Input method is DirectInput, not Raw. Raw input enumerates things very differently to Direct, which the MVAMS uses.
    I've tried that but the button numbers don't correspond e.g. No2 button in P3D becomes Button 11 in Milviz

  13. #38
    Have you tried to simply clear all the mappings, and not reassign them in the MVAMS ?
    My controls are all unassigned in there. So I just use the regular trim command from P3D, assigned to two buttons on my joystick via the P3D control assignment standard screen, in the sim options.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Daube View Post
    Have you tried to simply clear all the mappings, and not reassign them in the MVAMS ?
    My controls are all unassigned in there. So I just use the regular trim command from P3D, assigned to two buttons on my joystick via the P3D control assignment standard screen, in the sim options.
    Thanks for this it seems to be a big improvement but the beast is still fighting me. At least the flight controls are having some authority.

  15. #40
    Glad to see some improvement
    Could you provide a bit more details about that "beast still fighting you" ? Do you have a kind of example for me to reproduce on my computer ? Just to check if there is any difference...

    I can't really describe how the F-4 flies on my computer... Although it's not really unstable, it's not rock stable as the VRS F/A-18 for example. And I guess that's normal right ? The Phantom does not have the same generation of controls, does it ?
    So yes, I have to constantly adjust the trim depending on my speed, or if I deploy the flaps or the air brake or the gears... but that's normal, isn't it ?

    Now, if I stay in level flight with stabilized speed, I don't need to touch the trim after I set it correctly...

  16. #41
    What would be really helpful, would be if someone would make a YouTube video, showing how the trim is set for stable flight? NC

    Just a thought...

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by CavOk View Post
    I've tried that but the button numbers don't correspond e.g. No2 button in P3D becomes Button 11 in Milviz
    Make sure there isn't some stuck or static button that is constantly on that might be interfering?
    -JB

  18. #43
    Hi Guys,I am still trying to come to grips with this "new" Phantom.1/ What do you mean by "Control input should be DirectInput, not Raw"? Please explain this in elementary form (where etc.).2/ I am using a "Microsoft - Force Feedback 2" Joystick . Not because I have one (I actually have two) , but because it is still the BEST joystick available (IMHO) for representing what forces are experienced in actual aircraft.3/ I have time in USN Phantoms, as well as many other USN aircraft. The Phantom does NOT fly much different than other USN aircraft. They must be extremely stable in the carrier landing pattern - or they won't be acceptable by the PAX River test pilots. This model must replicate that. They previous version did replicate that.Bill

  19. #44
    The RAW/Direct Input option is somewhere in the commands options of P3D.
    I think DirectInput is the default setting.

    I'm also using a MS Sidewinfer Forcefeedback 2, with no power plug. Then I get no forcefeedback (it sucks anyways) and also no "center". It's not bad, in fact. Never thought about buying another joystick.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Daube View Post
    Glad to see some improvement
    Could you provide a bit more details about that "beast still fighting you" ? Do you have a kind of example for me to reproduce on my computer ? Just to check if there is any difference...

    I can't really describe how the F-4 flies on my computer... Although it's not really unstable, it's not rock stable as the VRS F/A-18 for example. And I guess that's normal right ? The Phantom does not have the same generation of controls, does it ?
    So yes, I have to constantly adjust the trim depending on my speed, or if I deploy the flaps or the air brake or the gears... but that's normal, isn't it ?

    Now, if I stay in level flight with stabilized speed, I don't need to touch the trim after I set it correctly...
    Pitch oscillating is a constant problem especially on climb out and landing approach. Also the trim changes needed for flaps are to my mind excessive. I can't imagine a real world pilot wanting to go anywhere near this beast if this is how the real aircraft performs.

  21. #46
    In P3D, RawInput is the default, not direct, which is why it often pops up as a contributor.

    Since force feedback is being mentioned, I should also point out that if the default sim FFB is used then you will have a horrible time as well.

    Finally, like I said earlier, just changing the location of your joystick relative to your body can change your perceptions of an aircraft considerably. I don’t find the trim requirements excessive, and I can easily counter any deviations with light pressure simply because my stick is between my knees, allowing me to use my wrist and finger tips, instead of my whole arm.
    -JB

  22. #47
    Where in P3Dv4 do I change to DirectInput?I am more than willing for this to be a user setting problem, but I doubt it. I am currently beta testing the new Milviz SR-71. I have NO problem flying it, so why should I have to be making P3D changes to get a new version of the Milviz F-4 to stop drastic behavior? I have spent most of yesterday flying the SSW F-104 with NO problem. It has very accurate F-104 FDE (which means you must be attentive). This certainly sounds like a Milviz FDE problem, particularly since the old one flew with no problem. Bill

  23. #48
    To change to direct input launch P3D, at the display screen select options, controls, then other, at the bottom of the left hand column and you'll see the options.
    For what its worth I've changed to direct input and switched off Enable Force Feedback and it hasn't made a scrap of difference. For me this model is unusable.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Gold View Post
    Where in P3Dv4 do I change to DirectInput?I am more than willing for this to be a user setting problem, but I doubt it. I am currently beta testing the new Milviz SR-71. I have NO problem flying it, so why should I have to be making P3D changes to get a new version of the Milviz F-4 to stop drastic behavior? I have spent most of yesterday flying the SSW F-104 with NO problem. It has very accurate F-104 FDE (which means you must be attentive). This certainly sounds like a Milviz FDE problem, particularly since the old one flew with no problem. Bill
    From the 'select everything' page, "Options\Other" (at the bottom) will locate the choice for you. You will have to re-check all your button mappings after making the change, but you're warned about that by the sim.

    Dave

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by CavOk View Post
    To change to direct input launch P3D, at the display screen select options, controls, then other, at the bottom of the left hand column and you'll see the options.
    For what its worth I've changed to direct input and switched off Enable Force Feedback and it hasn't made a scrap of difference. For me this model is unusable.
    I've been using direct input pretty much since it became available as an option, and I have to agree with you. Just because a few can fly it (yes, I managed a few complete flights yesterday) doesn't make it right. However, I'm not a RW pilot so I'm not in a position of authority to evaluate the handling.
    Last edited by odourboy; May 24th, 2019 at 13:06.
    Your English is better than my French, German, Italian, Spanish.... so no worries my friends!


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