Eliminating Buildings in Scenery

[Devildog73]

Scenery Gurus,

Is there any way of eliminating errant huge buildings around Melbourne, Florida (KLMB) airport?

FS2004 has multiple large multi-story buildings where none exist, none have ever existed.

I started modifying the airport to reflect its current structures, aprons, taxiways, etc.
The problem is that MS put huge buildings all around the airport and on airport property.
Anyone who has ever been to Melbourne, FL, USA knows the only buildings of that size are not on the airport, are not on the north, east, and west sides of the airport.
The north and immediate west side are single family homes, the majority of which are single story with a few 2-story homes in the mix.
The east side is a four lane divided boulevard, a drainage ditch, a railroad track, and houses with small businesses before encountering US hwy 1 and then the Indian River before the barrier island and Atlantic.
The west side is similar to the north side until Wickham Road with small businesses and a 3-story Wuestoff Hospital NW of the runways a mile away.
The south, SW, SE sides do have multi-story buildings: Boeing, GE, Grumman, and other aerospace contractors and a couple of hotels.

NOTHING like is presented in the sim.

So, is there a way to eliminate all of those high-rise apartment and office buildings?
Thanks,
DD73

[Devildog73]

Here are some screen shots.....
The north side should have Embraer factory buildings. Big white 2 story buildings and hangars.
The north east side should have 2 medium large hangers with office for a charter flight service with props, Cessna Citations and Gulfstreams.
The east side just south of the main 9R/27L runway should have a large apron and aircraft maintenance/paint shop on the north side of the apron with a medium sized hangar facing West about where the Elite Airways CRJ200 is parked.

I know I'm anal retentive on this but it bugs me and I would gladly make it look real if I knew how.

[nigel richards]

Hello Devildog73,

Most of the offending objects appear to be Autogen.
You have at least 3 options to reduce/eliminate/change what you are seeing.

Firstly, which program are you using to alter your airport scenery?
If you're using AFCAD, your only option is to use a separate program to get rid of the unwanted clutter.

I would strongly recommend ADE (freeware) http://www.scruffyduck.org/downloads/4584110854
not only allows you to edit the airport itself, but also provides many useful additional functions:

1) EXCLUDES These allow you to create exclusion rectangles of any size to eliminate unwanted Scenery Objects, Autogen etc.
2) CUSTOM GROUND POLYS Enable you to create polygon areas of high quality ground, runway, grass textures to any size or shape.
3) CUSTOM SCENERY OBJECTS can be easily imported into ADE and accurately placed into your airport scenery.

ADE comes with one of the most comprehensive instruction manuals I have ever read. Invest the time to read the manual, and you will reap the benefits in many hours of rewarding, creative fun.

SBuilder (freeware) FS2004 version https://www.ptsim.com/index.php/downloads1 would also help you eliminate items in your sceneries with the added advantages of polygon EXLUDES and choice of items to be excluded - Railways, Roads, Autogen, Rivers etc. BE WARNED! Being a pure scenery design program, SBuilder has a very steep learning curve. But considering the AWESOME array of the program's capabilities, this is hardly surprising.

My advice: Forget AFCAD, begin with ADE, and HAVE FUN!

[Devildog73]

Thank you Nigel,

I have both ADE and AFCAD on my system.
I was using ADE to modify KMLB last night but the KMLB I opened only had the runways, aprons, parking, and taxiways.
I did not see any buildings at all.

I will look at the manual for ADE once again. I had forgotten it was there. It has been years since I read it the first time and years since trying to modify any airports.
Most of my flight sim mods are CFS2 and I simply left the FS2004 and FSX scenery to the real scenery buffs.

FSX's KMLB and surrounding areas are not bad. FS2004 is terrible along the east coast of Florida. There are missing bridges and causeways. There are causeways and bridges which simply are in places where none have ever been.

I might look into SBuilder this summer after school is out and before my basketball coaching becomes six days a week again......

Again, thank you very much.
Lee

[Motormouse]

There's also ExcBuilder,
which will allow you to produce individal excludes, based on a fs interface.

Ttfn

Pete

[Mick]

There's also ExcBuilder,
which will allow you to produce individal excludes, based on a fs interface.

Ttfn

Pete

I'm a big fan of ExcBuilder because it's so simple to use. You can make one or many exclude files for your airport (or anywhere) depending on how many objects you need to exclude and just where they're located. You can select what categories of objects you want to exclude. And you can make tiny little exclusion zones if you want to disappear just a single building or light pole.

You can find Exclude Builder at AvSim. On this page you'll find links to tutorials and the program itself.

https://library.avsim.net/search.php...Go=Change+View

When you make an exclude file, remember that it's (sometimes? usually? always?) necessary to put it into a scenery folder lower in the scenery stack than the airport it's meant for. In ADE, either exclude or terrain files (I forget which) must be placed in just the proper folder within FS in order to work (I don't recall exactly, but the manual makes it clear and simple.)

Here's something to remember: when you make your exclude files, have your autogen density setting turned up as high as you'll ever have it, and if you plan to release your scenery for others, have it turned up all the way. Otherwise it might not exclude items that only show up at higher density levels than what you had when you made the file. I think I read that in this forum some time long ago.

As for ADE or AFCAD, they both have their charms. ADE allows you to place 3D objects and see their footprints without booting up FS to check, which ADCAD can't do. But AFCAD allows you to make zero width (and therefore invisible) taxiways and apron routes, which is essential for water aerodromes and often needed for airports on land if you have grass airfields and want to have invisible taxi routes. I use both for different purposes and I like them both.

[Devildog73]

Thanks guys!

I'm going to be busy over the next few months.
Hopefully on the other side of that I will have an accurate KMLB 2019 to use and upload for others.
I think the newest version available is Art Poole's 2009.
KMLB has changed a lot since then.

Lee

[nigel richards]

Thank you Nigel,

I have both ADE and AFCAD on my system.
I was using ADE to modify KMLB last night but the KMLB I opened only had the runways, aprons, parking, and taxiways.
I did not see any buildings at all.

I will look at the manual for ADE once again. I had forgotten it was there. It has been years since I read it the first time and years since trying to modify any airports.
Most of my flight sim mods are CFS2 and I simply left the FS2004 and FSX scenery to the real scenery buffs.

FSX's KMLB and surrounding areas are not bad. FS2004 is terrible along the east coast of Florida. There are missing bridges and causeways. There are causeways and bridges which simply are in places where none have ever been.

I might look into SBuilder this summer after school is out and before my basketball coaching becomes six days a week again......

Again, thank you very much.
Lee

Pleasure, Lee.

As the buildings are default Autogen you won't be able to view them in ADE.
Being Landclass-related, the buildings are actually determined by the 'Landclass' type used for the specific area, not the airport scenery itself.

Another solution to the buildings/trees on or around a specific airport; you could try doing a small edit around the airport in EZ Landclass (freeware).
http://www.dirks-software.ca/

For example; by changing the Landclass type from what is probably currently 'Town' or 'City' to 'Grass' (or something similar).

[Devildog73]

Nigel,
downloaded.

Also, where in the internet world can I find msstdfmt.dll?
I don't want to download it from a nefarious website.
ExcBuilder requires it and it is not on my system.
I've searched all HDs and looked in hidden files, even did a *.dll search and got everything BUT it.

Pleasure, Lee.

As the buildings are default Autogen you won't be able to view them in ADE.
Being Landclass-related, the buildings are actually determined by the 'Landclass' type used for the specific area, not the airport scenery itself.

Another solution to the buildings/trees on or around a specific airport; you could try doing a small edit around the airport in EZ Landclass (freeware).
http://www.dirks-software.ca/

For example; by changing the Landclass type from what is probably currently 'Town' or 'City' to 'Grass' (or something similar).

[nigel richards]

Nigel,
downloaded.

Also, where in the internet world can I find msstdfmt.dll?
I don't want to download it from a nefarious website.
ExcBuilder requires it and it is not on my system.
I've searched all HDs and looked in hidden files, even did a *.dll search and got everything BUT it.

Hmmm...I don't use ExcBuilder, Lee - but if you're using ADE you already have a built-in 'excluder'.
Have you tried using ADE's exclude function?

[Devildog73]

Not yet. I've been downloading and installing.
I will get there today though.
Thank you again.

Hmmm...I don't use ExcBuilder, Lee - but if you're using ADE you already have a built-in 'excluder'.
Have you tried using ADE's exclude function?

[Motormouse]

Nigel,
downloaded.

Also, where in the internet world can I find msstdfmt.dll?
I don't want to download it from a nefarious website.
ExcBuilder requires it and it is not on my system.
I've searched all HDs and looked in hidden files, even did a *.dll search and got everything BUT it.

Attachment 68686 <---- click here


If this works... should be a zip attached clicky link up there /\

ttfn

Pete

[Devildog73]

Motormouse,

Yes, it worked.
Thanks so much

Lee

Attachment 68686 <---- click here


If this works... should be a zip attached clicky link up there /\

ttfn

Pete

[Devildog73]

Okay,
Thanks gentlemen!

It is all working fairly well, with some learning curves.
I have eliminated most of the high-rise errant buildings from KMLB property and close surrounding areas.

Now I have a couple of questions: 1) I am using an "Exclude" folder with exclude bgls in it. Where would I put it in priority in the scenery.cfg?, 2) Can I build airport buildings on top of the exclude flattens?

Thanks again,

Lee

[nigel richards]

Okay,
Thanks gentlemen!

It is all working fairly well, with some learning curves.
I have eliminated most of the high-rise errant buildings from KMLB property and close surrounding areas.

Now I have a couple of questions: 1) I am using an "Exclude" folder with exclude bgls in it. Where would I put it in priority in the scenery.cfg?, 2) Can I build airport buildings on top of the exclude flattens?

Thanks again,

Lee

That's good news, Lee

Yes indeed, Sir; you can create/build new scenery bgls to work above your excludes and flattens in the following way:

First create and name a new scenery folder (e.g:'Excludes') within the main Addon Scenery folder. Remember; every new Addon Scenery folder must contain two subfolders - 'scenery' for your bgl files and 'textures' for your textures. Give the bgls case-specific names and you can keep track of your work, and easily locate specific files should you wish to make further edits.

Then create and name a new scenery folder within the main Addon Scenery folder for your new airport scenery/sceneries.

Add your new airport scenery and move up (if neccessary) in the hierarchy list, making sure it is ABOVE the excludes folder in your SETTINGS - SCENERY LIBRARY.

Hope that helps, Sir :-)

[Devildog73]

Nigel,

Once again, thank you.

By higher I am understanding with a lower number in my scenery.cfg? I.E., KLMB folder=14 and Excludes folder=21?

Lee

That's good news, Lee

Yes indeed, Sir; you can create/build new scenery bgls to work above your excludes and flattens in the following way:

First create and name a new scenery folder (e.g:'Excludes') within the main Addon Scenery folder. Remember; every new Addon Scenery folder must contain two subfolders - 'scenery' for your bgl files and 'textures' for your textures. Give the bgls case-specific names and you can keep track of your work, and easily locate specific files should you wish to make further edits.

Then create and name a new scenery folder within the main Addon Scenery folder for your new airport scenery/sceneries.

Add your new airport scenery and move up (if neccessary) in the hierarchy list, making sure it is ABOVE the excludes folder in your SETTINGS - SCENERY LIBRARY.

Hope that helps, Sir :-)

[Mick]

... Remember; every new Addon Scenery folder must contain two subfolders - 'scenery' for your bgl files and 'textures' for your textures...

I'm not so sure about that, Nigel.

I've read that it's essential NOT to have a texture folder in a scenery that has no textures - like an Excludes folder. (In my scenery library it's an Excludes & Landclass folder.) Anyway, I read here long ago that if you have texture folder with no texture files in it, FS will see the folder and look for textures and waste processing power doing so. I've done it that way for years.

Since my way works for me and your way causes you no problems, apparently neither way is essential.

Lee, what Nigel said abut where to put your exclude folder is essential. Think of it this way: You put the exclude files high on the list, which means low in the scenery stack. The exclude files will exclude things from scenery (including stock scenery) that are in folders lower in the stack. You can put whatever you want (like your newly added airport objects) into a folder above the exclude files in the stack (ie., lower on the list) and it won't be excluded. In relation to the scenery stack (where the bottom on the list is the top of the stack), think that en exclude (or any) file covers what's below in in the stack, while it gets covered by a file below it in the stack.

How far down the stack should the exclude folder go? I put mine just above all the stock scenery folders and my terrain mesh folder, and below all the add-on ones.

[Devildog73]

Thanks Mick.

I think I have it where it belongs.

Another question: Just north of the airport is one of the errant airfields FS2004 programers put into the sim. It is a raised elevation with a T grass runway about 50 feet above surrounding terrain.
Is there anyway of eliminating that? I tried to flatten it but it didn't work. has to be in the original mesh because I have Justin Tyme's mesh for Florida installed and it does nothing to change the elevation.

Lee

[Devildog73]

Here are 3 screen shots of the elevation error.

[nigel richards]

Here are 3 screen shots of the elevation error.

First, establish the desired height as accurately as possible. You can do this by 'slewing' the general area outside the offending elevated area, taking several height readings.

Open the stock airport in ADE, then change the airport height.

Now exort the ADE revised airport bgl to an Addon Scenery/scenery folder.
That should solve the issue.

[Mick]

Oops, sorry!

I wrote below when I meant above - or the other way round.

Anyway, you seem to have figured it out.

[Devildog73]

Thanks guys,

I played with my CFS2 FSSC and made a flatten which took the elevation of the errant airfield down to proper elevation.
I now have 2 grass runways suspended at 121.7 feet elevation, but they are hardly noticeable.

Now to educate myself on placing different hangars than ADE allows in that library.
The ones in ADE are not even close to those used at KMLB.
Between the terminal and next to the start of 27L is a large airline maintenance shop with single door hangar big enough to enclose a 747.
Just south of it is a open front hangar big enough to pull A320s into.
That shop currently has several B737-800/900 MAX sitting there, most AAL because they repaint most or all of American Airlines' aircraft.

Straight north of that shop on the other side of the runway is a charter service with 2 peaked roof single door hangars housing several C414s, Beech 58s/1900s, a Gulfstream or two and a couple of Cessna Citations.

Down on the south side of the airport is Florida Institute of Technology's flight school with several white over red aircraft on the apron.

I have to learn how to use Runway12 or another scenery program to properly place the appropriate buildings and aircraft where they belong for proper "eye-candy".

My summer looks like I am going to be busy!

[Mick]

...I now have 2 grass runways suspended at 121.7 feet elevation, but they are hardly noticeable.

If you make a new AFCAD or ADE airport file it will replace the original and those airborne runways will disappear.

...Now to educate myself on placing different hangars than ADE allows in that library.

ADE allows whatever hangars that you want. You just need to study the manual and learn how to add libraries to ADE.

[Devildog73]

Okay Guys,

I followed the installation to the T twice.

Here is what I am getting.

I hit continue and there are NO options when I hit the ADD button, nothing, blank dropdown.

[Mick]

Okay Guys,

I followed the installation to the T twice.

Here is what I am getting.

I hit continue and there are NO options when I hit the ADD button, nothing, blank dropdown.

What's your operating system? These FS utilities are almost as old as FS, which was developed a couple operating systems ago.

I has programs that worked in XP and won't work in Win7, and from what I've read, there are more than won't work in Win8 and probably even more that won't work in Win10.

I suggest that you try ADE. It definitely works in Win7 and since it's still in widespread use, I suspect that it works in the newer Windows OSs too. Besides, isn't Rwy12 restricted to using Rwy12 object libraries? ADE can use any libraries, though some of them might not show those nice little images of the objects (but you'll still see the footprint on the ADE screen and not need to boot up FS to check the accuracy of your location.)