First attempts at PBR

[DaveQ]

Having heard this is the future and seen what can be achieved I decided to have a go and see what was involved. These are early trials using some ancient but interesting hardware from FS9, the A2A P47D-30 and the CS TF-104G, both converted using MCX to P3D4.4 models. OK, probably not the most up-to-date kit to choose, but easy skins to work with.




I've used the diffuse texture file for the albedo and the spec as the basis for the metallic. Smoothness is set to albedo alpha, except for the canopy which is set to metallic. BTW for those tired of blue-tinted canopies, PBR fixes that - the TF-104 on the ground is pre-canopy update. Canopy colour can now be adjusted directly with the albedo (diffuse) texture. And alpha channels now more directly and accurately influence texture shine. Not sure how or if the metallic alpha can be used though.

Conclusions - PBR transforms how surfaces are displayed. It's now possible to have properly glossy paint and metal that looks like metal. As a comparison, the P-47's tanks are old-style unconverted alpha/spec textures.

This is early days for me but I'm convinced. Now to play with a Pony...!

DaveQ

[Sundog]

Nice work Dave! It, PBR, really makes a huge difference.

[Manschy]

Brilliant, Dave! Using PBR sparsely does the trick. It looks really realistic.
BTW congrats to your talent make the superb Captain Sim TF flyable in P3Dv4! Unfortunately no manufactorer seems currently be able to design trainer/2seater versions of former jets (F-104, Harrier etc.).
Never thought silver paints show so many nuances...

[Navy Chief]

Great! Now if the CS B-52 Driver could be converted? That would be cool too! NC

[DaveQ]

Thanks for your kind comments, guys. Now a few weeks down the line and getting more information about how to apply metal and smooth channel textures. A few things have come to light from tinkering with Warbirdsim Mustangs. These are personal observations from very limited experience using MCX to convert and a very basic understanding of what metallic and smooth can do and how they react.

Firstly let me say that, done properly, the metallic finish on a WBS Mustang looks better in FSX than I've so far achieved in P3D using PBR. But early days... There is definitely more potential in the latter though. One early observation was that whites appear very dark in shadow if the metallic channel is set to non-metallic; I set it to metallic (white) and use a darker smooth channel to get a good white in shadow in game. Another one is that I get a lot of edge bleed-through on small non-metal detail on metal surfaces, typically with stencilling and dirt. My solution is to leave them off smooth and metal channels altogether. It would appear that the more detail (eg. use 4096x4096) the cleaner edges become. Also I noticed that annoying blue tint that P3D gives to canopy glass in many instances, goes when converted to PBS. Here are a few screenshots of a 352nd FG Mustang, the result of a couple of days of playing.









For me the top deck is a bit too bright and there is no real reflection off the surface; the smooth channel has to be nearly white to show any, and then it all looks a bit Oshkosh...!!

DaveQ

[Sundog]

I realize screen shots can look different than in game, but they look really good to me, especially that third shot with the glare off of the rear fuselage and wing root.

[SiR_RiPPER]

Really nice work! The Jug looks especially spectacular, probably due to having more "surface" to show! :P

[DaveQ]

Still tinkering. Any advice from anybody who really knows what they're doing would be appreciated. Especially around the question of ambient occlusion. I'm using the diffuse texture as albedo and creating a separate metal texture where metal is white or near-white and the roughness is set up as the albedo alpha, using essentially the old spec file, suitably modified. One thing I notice is that the colours are a bit washed out when shine is applied. Here's the SSW F-104G in 92 Sqdn colours circa 1964......



..and this is a 417 Sqdn, CAF special from 1984. Colours seem washed out to me, especially the blue.




DaveQ

[delta_lima]

Those look superb, Dave!

I think RAF scheme (though ficticious) looks amazing. I'm not a fan of/well versed in anniversary type schemes, so I can't comment on the second too much. Most of the period shots of that scheme online are themselves poorly taken, and/or bad lighting, so while it looks a bit washed in your screenshot, I doubt it was much brighter than that in real life.

Edit - here's a decent shot: http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contri...Leod/11903.htm Not far off yours, especially factoring the lighting and (in my view) some overexposure on the part of the photographer who took it.

A NASA Starfighter might give you some really nice results .... just sayin' ....

Partial joking aside, thanks for your continuing to push the boundaries of what the sim can render. Amazing.

PS - does the R/F-104G play nicely in P3DV4? I was concerned all the esoteric .dlls and modules would give grief, and so I held off. But with KEDW looking way better than it ever did in FSX, I can't think of a better high-speed mount.

dl

[Dimus]

One think I notice is that the colours are a bit washed out when shine is applied.

Ditto that! I solve this by making the albedo darker and more saturated. The downside to this is that you can not use the same albedo/diffuse for PBR and non-PBR version. It's a bit annoying but it has also been noticed by other devs too.

[DaveQ]

PS - does the R/F-104G play nicely in P3DV4? I was concerned all the esoteric .dlls and modules would give grief, and so I held off. But with KEDW looking way better than it ever did in FSX, I can't think of a better high-speed mount.

dl

This, of course, shot in P3Dv4.5 so yes, but I had to get the P3D version. Fortunately they'd included three of my Canadian paints so I wasn't so far out of pocket....

DaveQ

[DaveQ]

Ditto that! I solve this by making the albedo darker and more saturated. The downside to this is that you can not use the same albedo/diffuse for PBR and non-PBR version. It's a bit annoying but it has also been noticed by other devs too.

Thanks Dimus - I'll give it a try.

DaveQ