Notre Dame Cathedral is burning to the ground!
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Thread: Notre Dame Cathedral is burning to the ground!

  1. #1

    Notre Dame Cathedral is burning to the ground!

    Not sure if this is the right forum... but Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is burning. Seems no attempts are being made to put the fires out.

    EDIT: Apparently there were fire crews on the scene, but the fire became so large that there wasn't much they could do to extinguish it. Soon there after the large tower of the Cathedral collapsed.

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/massiv...edral-in-paris

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  2. #2
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    It is hardly possible to fight fires in buildings like this. You can't fight the from the inside as they are above the ceiling and there is a constant risk the ceiling will collapse. And there is never enough equipment available available to fight the fire at the required height. When the ceiling/attic floor is gone the walls will most likely become unstable, therefore you have to keep a safe distance.
    Its really sad to see the building burn down and there is nothing you can do to stop it. But like "le Fenice" in Venice, you can burn buildings like this to the ground, but you can never destroy them.
    No doubt the Notre Dame will be fully restored.

    Huub

  3. #3
    This is a terrible shame. I hope it is just an accidental thing and not some extremist or nutcase given the trouble Paris is experiencing every weekend. Seems we are surrounded by it these days. Hope it can be rebuilt. They did manage to repair Windsor Castle when it was almost totally destroyed a few years back, at a cost of many millions.
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  4. #4
    Some idiotic moron on Twitter suggested the use of flying water tankers to extinguish this fire... In the middle of a city as big and crowed as Paris...

  5. #5
    SOH-CM-2016 ratty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxane-21 View Post
    Some idiotic moron on Twitter suggested the use of flying water tankers to extinguish this fire... In the middle of a city as big and crowed as Paris...
    Apparently they considered it but decided the possibility of damage to the structure was too great. So, not so idiotic, really.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ratty View Post
    Apparently they considered it but decided the possibility of damage to the structure was too great. So, not so idiotic, really.
    Beside the potential damages to the cathedral itself, I was thinking about the buildings and people around it since it stands downtown. Water drops don't seem to be precise enough to me, and I fear the dropped water would destroy more than it would extinguish the fire.

    I know there are some fire fighting specialists here at SOH (saw some threads about California fires a few months ago). I would be interested to read comments from them on this particular subject.

  7. #7
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    The problem is the location of the fire. The roof is gone and attic under it is now burning, which is also the ceiling of the church. The beams under this floor connect the opposite walls. When you drop a large amount of water at the attic this will pull the walls to the center and down. Water is actually quite heavy and when you drop from a height it will have quite some energy.

    Its better to allow the fire to "eat" its way down as that way you might be able to save most of the structure.

    Its very sad to see the Notre Dame burn to the ground as it had an unique organ and beautiful lead-light windows and for sure many other treasures. For sure these are all gone.

    I hope the above makes some sense,

    Huub

  8. #8

    Notre Dame Cathedral is burning to the ground!

    Hallo Friends
    there has been just an actual communique from the fire commander at site.
    The fire is under control, the two towers seem to be safe and the structure should be safe also.
    "Luckely" the fire man of Paris are very well known of beeing very competant, well trained and well
    equiped.
    The roof has been lost 2/3.
    Let us all hope for the best
    Again the commander did tell at the tv that the cathedral will be saved
    Yours
    Papi

  9. #9
    SOH-CM-2019 MrZippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxane-21 View Post
    Some idiotic moron on Twitter suggested the use of flying water tankers to extinguish this fire... In the middle of a city as big and crowed as Paris...
    Yeah, the news just showed the idiotic moron who made that tweet. He's made lots of idiotic tweets over that last few years
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Naismith View Post
    This is a terrible shame. I hope it is just an accidental thing and not some extremist or nutcase given the trouble Paris is experiencing every weekend. Seems we are surrounded by it these days. Hope it can be rebuilt. They did manage to repair Windsor Castle when it was almost totally destroyed a few years back, at a cost of many millions.
    It sounds like the same thing that nearly destroyed the Sawer House/ Oshkosh Public Museum here in Oshkosh back in the 90's. On our museum a worker was soldering on the roof with a torch and the structure caught fire. I did see a bunch of scaffolding still standing giving an eerie silhouette of where the cathedral's roof used to be but I don't know what work they were doing. Sounds very similar though. If the stone and mortar survives the heat and doesn't crumble to the ground undoubtedly it will be rebuilt. That could take a while though. I believe the National Cathedral in Washington D.C. still holds the record for fastest cathedral construction and it still took about 80 years so a rebuild of Notre Dame wouldn't be quick. I do hope it happens though.

  11. #11

    Icon9 Reply...

    A truly sad loss for the world, Notre Dame is as much of an icon for France as the State of Liberty is for the United States. Ironic, because they're actually both French.
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    Senior Administrator Roger's Avatar
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    This is such sad news, I hope they can rebuild.
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  13. #13
    i dont think it was an idiotic suggestion at all to have some airdrops,Helicopters would have been a good choice though,but small tankers could do the job with minimal to non exsistant damage to surrounding structures or life,but it would be tricky to do.the main thing would be the destruction of the surviving structure.its already compromised from the fire itself,then the water hitting would most likely do even more damage.

  14. #14
    SOH-CM-2019 MrZippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveroo View Post
    i dont think it was an idiotic suggestion at all to have some airdrops,Helicopters would have been a good choice though,but small tankers could do the job with minimal to non exsistant damage to surrounding structures or life,but it would be tricky to do.the main thing would be the destruction of the surviving structure.its already compromised from the fire itself,then the water hitting would most likely do even more damage.
    According to the French authorities a water bomber would be moving too fast and could do more damage than good, and a helicopter would not be able to sustain altitude in the extremely hot air over the fire.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Roxane-21 View Post
    Some idiotic moron on Twitter suggested the use of flying water tankers to extinguish this fire... In the middle of a city as big and crowed as Paris...
    That would be your president.

  16. #16
    Some good news. Damage wasn’t as much as was feared. Many holy relics were saved. Basic construction appears to be fine but the towers are gone. Would hate to be one of the roof top workmen right now, 50 detectives are working the case right now. Appears to be accidental.

  17. #17
    As most of us know,...Notre Dame Cathedral was currently going under restoration at the time of the fire. Some years ago Chicago had lost one of it's noted churches through the carelessness of a workman's torch working on the roof at that time. Not meaning to jump to conclusions,...but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case (again) with Notre Dame Cathedral.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Roxane-21 View Post
    Some idiotic moron on Twitter suggested the use of flying water tankers to extinguish this fire... In the middle of a city as big and crowed as Paris...
    We all know who the idiot was and he was not a French citizen.

  19. #19
    The anchorman reading the six o'clock news here in Vancouver last night announced the Notre Dame de Paris had been reduced to a pile of rubble.

    Goodness.....how the media under-estimates the power of the High Gothic Stone Mason. What off-the-cuff sensationalism.

    Mind you, there is a pile of rubble on the ground floor where the spire's fleche punched out one of the ceiling's vault crossings on it's way down, but the images I've seen show the structural ribs to be undisturbed.

    The same interior images show small, ornate wooden structures on the ground floor undamaged, even candle sticks along the walls looking just fine.

    That said....it's difficult to take comfort when watching an eight hundred year old (+) structure that we've all assumed to be as immovable as a mountain range to be grappling with it's own mortality within the presence our own short life time.

    Fear not.

    She's only suffered the indignity of having her umbrella burnt off, and has taken a punch on the chin. Re-assembling the damaged vault will be tricky and expensive work, but the roof will be a straight forward rebuild, what with modern materials (perhaps) with greater fire resistance, and perhaps a fire suppression system built in.

    With the super-wealthy already stepping forward offering mega-bucks....Ol'Notre Dame de Paris will be back to normal in two-three years.

    Barring workman's strikes, of course.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by MrZippy View Post
    According to the French authorities a water bomber would be moving too fast and could do more damage than good, and a helicopter would not be able to sustain altitude in the extremely hot air over the fire.
    well thats not exactly true,they have S2Ts as well and they drop at some slow speeds,and ive been hit by direct drops at full bore,and at or below that sweet spot of 150 feet.didnt tear me apart,its not going to knock down or injure buildings really.helicopters go into heavy fire conditions all the time on wildfires,and ive seen they be effective over structure fires myself.as i stated they would knock down whats left of the walls which have now been severly compramized by the fire,i saw some video and it was very hot,if they do rebuild the building,theyed best do some heavy duty reinforcing,or theyre going to kill someone.

    trust me i dont like anything that the orange idiot says or does,but he wasnt wrong on his "idea",done right by experienced pilots,drops would have knocked alot of heat out of the fire.one other point,helicopters in a case like that,a helo would have not hovered to drop,it would keep moving forward.

  21. #21
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Dave, the French didn't and I'm convinced it was the best decision. I have fought fires half of my life and I have learned never to trust the construction of a building which is or was on fire. I have lost several colleagues who did forget this for a just a single moment.

    This was the official French explanation:

    "The weight of the water and the intensity of the drop at low altitude could indeed weaken the structure of Notre-Dame and result in collateral damage to the buildings in the vicinity," tweeted the agency, which is part of the French Ministry of Interior."

    Cheers,
    Huub

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Daveroo View Post
    trust me i dont like anything that the orange idiot says or does,but he wasnt wrong on his "idea",done right by experienced pilots,drops would have knocked alot of heat out of the fire.one other point,helicopters in a case like that,a helo would have not hovered to drop,it would keep moving forward.
    It's the sheer chutzpah of someone totally unqualified to offer unsolicited advice on "how to ..." that's galling Dave.

    BTW, are your neighbors out raking the forests in California?
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by n4gix View Post
    It's the sheer chutzpah of someone totally unqualified to offer unsolicited advice on "how to ..." that's galling Dave.

    BTW, are your neighbors out raking the forests in California?


    well they better be,but i aint worried no mo about them hills,,im going to buy (in the process now) a boat and live on the Sacramento/San Joaquin delta.

  24. #24
    And let's keep any form of 'Politics' firmly locked away people.
    Huub is right, water bombing on a building that is 850 years old, a combination of masonry and timber construction, in the heart of a densely populated metroplis is just a bad idea.
    Despite the 'Notre Dame is burning to the ground' headline it wasn't and didn't, through the expertise and courage of le pompiers it appears that a large part of the relics and associated treasure has been saved.
    Even the stained glass windows appear to have been saved.
    Out-bloody-standing!


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  25. #25
    my comments about it were the fact it could be done and done effectively,whether it was this building or a grass hut in a jungle somewhere doesnt mater.and disliking the orange idiot isnt political,i disliked him a long long time ago.hes a horrible corrupt man,president of the USA or not.

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