Section F8 F-86 re-imagined to CA-27 Avon Sabre
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Thread: Section F8 F-86 re-imagined to CA-27 Avon Sabre

  1. #1

    Section F8 F-86 re-imagined to CA-27 Avon Sabre

    It's been quite a while - converting a 1024 paintkit to 4096 was the bug-bear, particularly with discovering several 'anomalies' with the graphics-mapping to the model.... along with the several discrepancies between what 'was' an F-86 and now a Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation CA-27 Avon Sabre.
    When working at 4096 level even one pixel of misalignment shows up painfully so the eternal trial-and-error-adjust-and-retry becomes er eternal.
    Pretty much everything related to the exterior bitmaps [there are 3] has changed, the most important was the removal of the overlaps so all the pixels in paint would be only those that painted save for a limited cut-out line.
    The biggest anomaly with the model paint was the U/C doors....they simply cannot be defined, and the U/S rear wing roots are mostly iffy.
    One of the early fun bits was trying to locate one tiny bit of the forward-left tailplane root.... I knew it was there somewhere [it painted] but I almost had to look through every one of the 16 million pixels. It ended up about as far away from where it 'should' have been as you could get and still be in the same bmp.

    All that aside, it's a great model/plane [with the usual canopy glass prob], and no-one has done a '27 so I thought it was worth the effort.
    Needless to say, once I've uploaded the 6 real paints I've almost completed I'll have to rework everything again so I can release an updated 4096 kit of the F-86 itself - sigh - will have to type all the notes on that one with an American accent...

    Here's a latest pic of A94-101, the CA-26 prototype of the 27.
    I only decided to do all this when I noticed the machine gun ports were painted, not modelled...so Cannons would work the same way...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Image53.jpg  

  2. #2
    Always thought this is the epitome of a jet fighter for FSX, and a pilot figure that other developers should take note of .... looking forward to your contribution.

  3. #3
    Here's a simple comparison between an original paint and what happens with a 4096...
    ...and also what the high res kit looks like with 6 paints inside... up against the original, both at 1/4 full size. There's a wee bit of difference.





    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Image6.jpg   Image55.jpg   Image45.jpg  

  4. #4
    That paint looks really nice and crisp !
    As noted above, that model is probably one of the best freeware ever made.
    Was the Section F8 Sabre ever converted to native FSX format, or is it still a portover ?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Daube View Post
    That paint looks really nice and crisp !
    As noted above, that model is probably one of the best freeware ever made.
    Was the Section F8 Sabre ever converted to native FSX format, or is it still a portover ?
    Thanks, yes I always try to take advantage of the higher res...though this time I avoided the actual typos some of the notes were found to have...

    It's unfortunately not FSX native....has the auto-gen tree argument with the canopy glass [as oldies do].
    Perhaps we can convince Jan to update it - it's such a nice plane otherwise...

    Here's A94-901 the first production '27 sporting the aluminium paint [yes, 'aluminium' - it's not American]...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Image8.jpg  

  6. #6
    Needless to say, timing is everything...I'm shortly off to the World Superbikes at Phillip Island [my Jafo-ing] so won't be ready to upload these paints till sometime after the weekend...all that compiling and DDS-ing to do yet...

    Here's a pic of VH-SBR, one of the two [currently] Avons still flying...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Image10.jpg  

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jafo View Post
    I'm shortly off to the World Superbikes at Phillip Island [my Jafo-ing) Here's A94-901 the first production '27 sporting the aluminum paint [yes, 'aluminum' - it's not American]...
    I presume you'll be doing the pit lane release thing Paul?
    We'll be there, I'll do my thing with the KTM and park it among all the Dukes as I'm a member of the Ducati Owners Club.

    Way back when I was cutting up Monogram F86E kits to make Avons I acquired several litres of RAAF 'aluminum dope', IIRC it was clear Cellulose Dope loaded with Aluminum powder.
    It ate Styrene unless it was applied over a base coat.
    Even further back I remember seeing it on Wirraways, Ginwheels, Mustangs and Vampires, later on Sabres and Miracles.
    "Illegitimum non carborundum".

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by wombat666 View Post
    I presume you'll be doing the pit lane release thing Paul?
    We'll be there, I'll do my thing with the KTM and park it among all the Dukes as I'm a member of the Ducati Owners Club.
    Dunno where I'll be stationed....it's my 25th SBK, BTW... but hopefully not at 12 right where a Moto2 spat kitty litter at me...got one in the shoulder ...like a rifle bullet...not bad to be hit about 100 meters from where a back wheel could have spat one from.

    Next month I'm 8 left at Albert Park for the F1 [and that'll be my 40th consecutive AGP] ...

    Meanwhile.... here's a more recognizable one...


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Image3.jpg   Image12.jpg  

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jafo View Post
    It's been quite a while - converting a 1024 paintkit to 4096 was the bug-bear, particularly with discovering several 'anomalies' with the graphics-mapping to the model.... along with the several discrepancies between what 'was' an F-86 and now a Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation CA-27 Avon Sabre.
    When working at 4096 level even one pixel of misalignment shows up painfully so the eternal trial-and-error-adjust-and-retry becomes er eternal.
    Pretty much everything related to the exterior bitmaps [there are 3] has changed, the most important was the removal of the overlaps so all the pixels in paint would be only those that painted save for a limited cut-out line.
    The biggest anomaly with the model paint was the U/C doors....they simply cannot be defined, and the U/S rear wing roots are mostly iffy.
    One of the early fun bits was trying to locate one tiny bit of the forward-left tailplane root.... I knew it was there somewhere [it painted] but I almost had to look through every one of the 16 million pixels. It ended up about as far away from where it 'should' have been as you could get and still be in the same bmp.

    All that aside, it's a great model/plane [with the usual canopy glass prob], and no-one has done a '27 so I thought it was worth the effort.
    Needless to say, once I've uploaded the 6 real paints I've almost completed I'll have to rework everything again so I can release an updated 4096 kit of the F-86 itself - sigh - will have to type all the notes on that one with an American accent...

    Here's a latest pic of A94-101, the CA-26 prototype of the 27.
    I only decided to do all this when I noticed the machine gun ports were painted, not modelled...so Cannons would work the same way...
    So does this now mean the Section 8 F-86 model is DX10 compatible with these mods? -d
    Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken.

  10. #10
    I think I still have the partially converted GMax file for the F-8, Jan never minded a conversion and I've always offered it when the subject was brought up so far, but if there are no bakers, there'll be no bread.


    By now, however, I figure a direct conversion with ModelConverter might be faster and easier to do.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dvj View Post
    So does this now mean the Section 8 F-86 model is DX10 compatible with these mods? -d
    Only change is the image resolution [biggest FSX can handle] .... I'm running them as extended Bitmaps which are huge [65meg]...they'll be uploaded as DDS DXT5 compacted images which are 16meg. That's all.

    Here's number 5 of the 6.



    ....and number 6 of the 6. [actually the first one I did].

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Image16.jpg   Image14.jpg  
    Last edited by Jafo; February 19th, 2019 at 20:47.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjoern View Post
    I think I still have the partially converted GMax file for the F-8, Jan never minded a conversion and I've always offered it when the subject was brought up so far, but if there are no bakers, there'll be no bread.


    By now, however, I figure a direct conversion with ModelConverter might be faster and easier to do.
    Before Milviz released their F-86 Colin kindly asked me to refrain from going down the native FSX path with our freeware Sabre model. I thought, givin the commercial aspect of Milviz, that was a reasonable request so let's stick to that. Besides, particularly the VC is way ahead of ours. I have great respect for the modeler who put that piece of art together (Kevin Miller and/or Dmitriy Usatiy ?..)

    Cheers,
    Jan

  13. #13
    Nice work Jafo. However I do not know if you can move the gun ports up a tad...they look to low.

    You could say that they are placed evenly between the base of anti glare black nose and the bottom line of the fuselage.

    I am off to Super Bikes too this weekend and then Avalon the following. Great time of year in Melbourne right now!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Javis View Post
    Before Milviz released their F-86 Colin kindly asked me to refrain from going down the native FSX path with our freeware Sabre model. I thought, givin the commercial aspect of Milviz, that was a reasonable request so let's stick to that. Besides, particularly the VC is way ahead of ours. I have great respect for the modeler who put that piece of art together (Kevin Miller and/or Dmitriy Usatiy ?..)

    Cheers,
    Jan
    Just the glass and I'd be happy.....trees drawing on the wrong side of the canopy glass is a real pain...like prop disks and clouds...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy74 View Post
    Nice work Jafo. However I do not know if you can move the gun ports up a tad...they look to low.

    You could say that they are placed evenly between the base of anti glare black nose and the bottom line of the fuselage.

    I am off to Super Bikes too this weekend and then Avalon the following. Great time of year in Melbourne right now!
    I originally had them higher....then came to do all the panels and decided they were simply too high to work. It probably comes down to actual differences with the fact it's an 86 model, not a 27. The fuse is substantially different. The Avon motor was shorter, wider and way more powerful...and the intake was therefore quite a bit bigger....

    Assuming it's OK to release my workup of the paint kit I'd be more than happy for others to have a crack at compromising the rework from 86 to 27...

    Supers are always fun....better racing, usually, than the overly officious Moto ...
    Meanwhile.....my 'what if' I used to test other bits....like fuse and wing stripes....and what happens when you go all metallic on badges....[and zeus fasteners]...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2560-RAAF Princess Elizabeth.jpg  

  16. #16
    Had a look at the gun ports yet again.....
    Decided some trickery was in order....
    Here's a comparison...my version is on the left.....and that's the real animal on the right.
    They're pretty close, considering... and you can clearly see the intake difference that exacerbates the issue...



    ...of course...if I'd done that exactly like this sooner...I might have redone the entire thing an inch or 2 higher...
    Ignore the blackout....mine's the 26 with the early ports....the prototype 94-101.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails nose view.jpg  

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jafo View Post
    Had a look at the gun ports yet again.....
    Decided some trickery was in order....
    Here's a comparison...my version is on the left.....and that's the real animal on the right.
    They're pretty close, considering... and you can clearly see the intake difference that exacerbates the issue...



    ...of course...if I'd done that exactly like this sooner...I might have redone the entire thing an inch or 2 higher...
    Ignore the blackout....mine's the 26 with the early ports....the prototype 94-101.
    See just a little higher... Sorry its me just me being anal! F-86 to CAC Avon Sabre is like apples to pears, when one knows a lot about the locally built one.

    I totally agree with supers over MotoGP. At least you can ride your bike around the grounds to get from turn 1 over to Siberia and Lukey Heights with out hassle and walking....

    All in all great work on the Avon! Its about time there was one in Flight Sim.

  18. #18
    Off to PI in a few hours....will be doing radio/flag as usual....hopefully it's neither wet nor windy....those flags get heavy when they're wet....

    When I get back I plan to go through the pain of raising the ports....and associated notes/details the grand total of 24 pixels higher at 4096 res.... may as well be as close as can be got....

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Javis View Post
    Before Milviz released their F-86 Colin kindly asked me to refrain from going down the native FSX path with our freeware Sabre model. I thought, givin the commercial aspect of Milviz, that was a reasonable request so let's stick to that. Besides, particularly the VC is way ahead of ours. I have great respect for the modeler who put that piece of art together (Kevin Miller and/or Dmitriy Usatiy ?..)
    Ooooooh, that's why you've never converted it. Although it seems a bit odd, seeing how the MV version caters to a totally different audience.

  20. #20
    The Milviz Sabre has been out on the market for quite a while now and I doubt a native Avon version of the Section 8 Sabre would have much of an impact on their sales....if any at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Javis View Post
    Before Milviz released their F-86 Colin kindly asked me to refrain from going down the native FSX path with our freeware Sabre model. I thought, givin the commercial aspect of Milviz, that was a reasonable request so let's stick to that. Besides, particularly the VC is way ahead of ours. I have great respect for the modeler who put that piece of art together (Kevin Miller and/or Dmitriy Usatiy ?..)

    Cheers,
    Jan
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  21. #21
    Yes, that might all be fine and true, gentlemen, but i have a new ConvairLiner series, a NAF N3N and a DC-3 to finish up on my plate here and that's more than enough to keep me from wandering the streets at midnight looking for trouble. Besides, i'd LOVE to have another go at the venerable Sabre now that we have P3Dv4 to play around with of course but because of the MV F-86 i would not be thinking about the Avon CA-27 in the first place. I would rather go naval with the FJ-2/3 Fury or even the completely different FJ-4 (thinking about it (NOT!) certainly the F-86D/K still springs to mind too)

    Jafo, just stick to the interesting and colourful liveries, mate, you'll never make it a CA-27 just by moving around the gun ports. Good job nontheless !

    Cheers,
    Jan

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Javis View Post

    Jafo, just stick to the interesting and colourful liveries, mate, you'll never make it a CA-27 just by moving around the gun ports. Good job nontheless !

    Cheers,
    Jan
    Yes, we just do what we can with what we've got....

    I'd love to know why the left side of the tailplane was a reflected right side....then rotated left a curious 181.7 degrees....

    Sometimes I think modellers just want to test our attentiveness...

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jafo View Post
    Sometimes I think modellers just want to test our attentiveness...
    I think any modeler should also be a painter. It would reduce the amount of models with awful UV mapping by 87.45%.

  24. #24
    Charter Member 2015 delta_lima's Avatar
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    Jan, the Convair looks fantastic - and I'll fly the wings off it when it's done. But a -4 Fury ... now that's the stuff of dreams .... \\

    Back to Jafo - Great project! I'll dust off the S8 F-86 just for these repaints.

    cheers,

    dl

  25. #25
    Currently on turn 10 right at the supers and enjoying the sun

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