2020 Race????

View Poll Results: Should we hold a 2020 Race?

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Thread: 2020 Race????

  1. #1

    2020 Race????

    Alright race fans, time to get serious here. 2020, do you want a race ? I know SOH is struggling with members so we need ideas. With Mike and Rob stepping down, Iím it for an executive committee. I know I run the site and make the Duenna but itís not my race, itís your race.

    Evaluate the current setup, current rule structure and perhaps the race needs a shakeup to continue. We need ideas, if you want to continue letís hear them. Iíd like to see a true RTW next year if possible.

    So 2020, yay or nay?

  2. #2
    When I get my rig back up to full health I'll be looking into the weather problem. I like the idea of duenna injection but admit I'm not a coder so I don't know the issues involved with it. I played with FSMetar a bit and like how it can inject from a text file downloaded from NOAA. I dunno how FS downloads it, but there is an address line in the FS config file I believe points to the weather server. Maybe it's just a simple address change to a different server ? I'll throw in vatsims address and see if it works. I routinely have FSrealXW saving the weather file so fsmetar can read it, but from what I've read FSRWX doesn't exactly use a generic weather file from the internet, tho can't explain how it pulls weather from NOAA if it's not a generic text file.

    As for the race next year- I'm all for it tho I make no excuses for my loathing of the current format.
    "May fortune favor the foolish"
    MaddogK

  3. #3
    SOH-CM-2016
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    I'd love the RTW race to continue, or something like it. However, with a smaller team size, it's harder work and a bit less fun. I miss flying with a big team with everyone online. This year SOH was a small team, and we didn't fly online, meaning you couldn't actually see anyone else in the sim, and baton changes were that bit more difficult. When I saw that you had 8-10 aircraft flying the last leg, and then the pictures afterwards of them all together waiting to depart from K17, it brought it home to me how the experience of this year's race was probably quite different for the AVSIM team compared to the SOH team.

    Let's have a good think about what would work well next year.

    Thanks for asking the question, Eamonn!
    Martin (FS RTW Race pilot 2009-19)
    Win7 x64 | MSI X79A-GD65 | Intel Core i7-3820 Quad-Core 3.60 GHz | 16GB DDR3/1600MHz Quad Channel Memory | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 2GB

  4. #4
    Having a smaller team is challenging for sure. Not like the old days when you might have to wait several hours or even most of a day to take the baton.

    Rundown:

    2016 RTWR, SOH had 7 pilots
    2017 RTWR, 8 pilots
    2018 RTWR, 9 pilots
    2019 RTWR, back to 7 pilots

    As you can see we are right on the borderline of managing a race for 48 hours and have only one pilot who is across the pond for that time zone.

    Sadly, the idea of a new rookie and employing rookie mulligans is not going to happen any time soon. (The event is very daunting and difficult to understand on the outside looking in). Having Frank and Pat come aboard from Flightsim has helped a lot in the last two races.

    If any kind of race is to happen next year, I would suggest an even shorter event. Like the 24 hours of Le Mans, maybe restructure the race to last 24 hours max so there is less burnout and a smaller team can work through it easier. Not a true RTWR in distance but could still be exciting.

    I would also like to promote the idea of running the race sometime other than mid February. Can't speak for anyone else but having it as we do now always poses time availability challenges with work and family demands. How about running it during one of the summer months when things are less hectic? (Again, my 2 cents).

    Lots to think about and consider really.

    Kevin

  5. #5
    SOH-CM-2016
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    So Eamonn suggests a true RTW race (all the way round?), and Kevin suggests a 24-hour limit. Sounds like we just need to re-introduce Concorde legs!

    (This is one of my favourite add-ons: https://www.flightsimlabs.com/index.php/concorde-x/)
    Martin (FS RTW Race pilot 2009-19)
    Win7 x64 | MSI X79A-GD65 | Intel Core i7-3820 Quad-Core 3.60 GHz | 16GB DDR3/1600MHz Quad Channel Memory | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 2GB

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Spookster67 View Post
    So Eamonn suggests a true RTW race (all the way round?), and Kevin suggests a 24-hour limit. Sounds like we just need to re-introduce Concorde legs!

    (This is one of my favourite add-ons: https://www.flightsimlabs.com/index.php/concorde-x/)
    We could do stages like the current NASCAR races- forced pit stops every so many laps. To apply it to the RTW each team could could have exactly 24 hours (or 48) to post their duenna's, then the race stops till the following weekend where the window opens and the race resumes.
    "May fortune favor the foolish"
    MaddogK

  7. #7
    Something along the lines of the Races held here at SOH a few years ago...such as this one...
    http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...est-Pacific-II
    ...but on a world-wide stage.
    Perhaps not the all out 48 to 72 hour marathons (which are difficult for many, if not most), but as in the Southwest Pacific race IIRC there was a spreadsheet to keep track of everyone's time, but the times were taken directly from the Duenna. I fully realize the weather component may throw a wrench into the equation, but with enough forethought there may be a way to make it work. I know for me personally I would be more likely to participate in such a race that takes place within a time frame of a week or two, but I also understand the desire of the pilots who have the time and/or energy to make it a marathon session of 48 or 72 hours.
    Expect banging, belching and an occasional manly fart as you roar down the runway at full power. (I have found that the engine can make similar noises)

  8. #8
    I will be up for whatever we can put together. This year was a bad year for me on all levels.

  9. #9
    If we could duplicate the charged atmosphere during the Race without having to wander around like zombies for the following week,that would be considered a win in my book. Running the Race in a series of installments over the course of more than one weekend sounds good to me. For myself, I actually enjoy the effort and teamwork (and hard work) that it takes to run the Race over the course of only just one weekend, but I realize that it just ain't for everyone.
    Here's an idea: When the first weekend is done, the start times are adjusted by how far the teams other than the leader are behind. For example, the leading team gets to start at the top of the hour, and the other teams start by however many minutes they are behind. For example, if the second weekend of the Race starts at 2000Z, the first place team can post at 2000Z. If the second place team is behind by, say, 12 minutes, they post at 2012Z. It's kinda like hitting the pause button, if you will.
    Just a thought...
    As an aside, maybe each weekend could be a "themed" weekend, for example, flying navy/fleet air arm aircraft one weekend, air force aircraft the next, single engine, twin engine, - many possibilities there.
    Fair skies and following winds,

    Frank

  10. #10
    Senior Administrator PRB's Avatar
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    After taking a few days to think about it, yes, we should continue the race, in some fashion. We have to do something about the limited number of planes to fly. I'm getting burned out and bored flying the same planes over and over again every year. And I have a simple idea to address this: Limit each type to three flights. That's it. So you can only fly the F7F three times in the race. Same with the P-51. I was going to say two times each, but that might be too restrictive. Might be. I'm not sure yet. I want to get to the point that we start turning to the P-38s, P-40s, Spitfires, BF-109s and FW-190s. Or other civilian ships in the same speed range. And we don't need to distinguish between "thoroughbred" and "non-thoroughbreds". We already have a "white list". Put it on the white list or leave it off. If we limit the number of legs to 2 or 3, the "thoroughbreds" will soon be exhausted anyway.


    As to the format, I don't know. When we used to do this race online it was a lot of fun. It was exciting parked at the end of a runway waiting for the baton plane to arrive. Sitting in our cockpits, looking towards the expected direction, waiting for that red "tag" to appear, then all yelling "tally baton!!!!". Then seeing the baton ship fly over the end of the runway, then taxiing out onto the runway, pre-takeoff checks complete, your wingman off your left wing tip. That was good stuff. When I would fly as wingman, if I arrived first, I would circle the field, looking down at all our team-mates parked at the end of the runway, waiting for the lead baton land. That's some serious "Walter Mitty" stuff right there. Also, when flying into an airport in bad weather, often you would see the dim red tags of your teammates parked at the end of the runway before you saw the runway itself, which was a big help sometimes. I'm not sure what happened. Why aren't we online doing this anymore?
    - Paul

    Win7 x64 | GIGABYTE X79-UP4 | Intel Core i7-3820 Quad-Core 3.60 GHz | 16GB DDR3/1600MHz Quad Channel Memory | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB 16X PCIe 3.0

  11. #11
    Senior Administrator PRB's Avatar
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    I saw when you posted this thread in the FSX forum a few days ago. I watched it to see how much interest it would get. I'm saddened, but not surprised. Between 2008 and 2014 or 2015 we would make posts such as this in all the major forums here when we were within two or three months of the race. Three years ago I simply gave up trying. They generated basically zero interest. At least my posts in those days at least had people post about why they couldn't do it. I'm tempted at times like these to bust on the FS community in general, and the FSX/P3D community in particular for have no more interest in this hobby than the latest 3D spectral ultra difuse bump-mapping quantum-shading hyper ray traced alpha layered painting techniques, but that would be unfair. Well, a little unfair... lol. I think part of the reason for the drop in interest is simply the complexity of the rules has exploded over the years, and people get half way through the document and move on. If we are ever to get people more involved this just has to be addressed.
    - Paul

    Win7 x64 | GIGABYTE X79-UP4 | Intel Core i7-3820 Quad-Core 3.60 GHz | 16GB DDR3/1600MHz Quad Channel Memory | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB 16X PCIe 3.0

  12. #12
    Hi Paul,

    You are correct, I just thought I would drum up some interest however I posted in all 3 forums a similar message and while it has been at least opened quite a bit on each forum, there has been no responses.

    I've received quite a bit of support in continuing this tradition, so anything anybody can provide would be great.

  13. #13
    I flew in the very first race, between avsim and flightsim and had a blast. There were few rules and little oversight, it was just a lot of fun. I was a co-founder of Team SOH back in the day too, when we didn't take it too seriously and just laughed our way through it, enjoying each other's company online. Then things started getting really competitive, the rules became increasingly complex, the Duenna was added, ... things got to the point we needed a team of lawyers to interpret the rules and a team of techies to manage all the peripherals (headsets, teamspeak, Duenna, google earth, etc.) :-) It was at this point my interest waned.

    I don't know if we could ever go back, though. If we could, it'd be great to re-capture the fun and general feeling of pseudo-chaos of those first few years. It just got a bit too complicated, competitive, etc. for my tastes. But that was just me.

    - dcc
    - -

  14. #14
    Dave, I didn't get into the race much later, and it was still fun. In fact, I think I flew wingman to you on a race thru the mountain and it was dark. Those kind of flights I learned a heck of a lot of flying skills from most of the contestants. Like you and a few more pilots it got a little heady, and the fun left. just my thoughts.

  15. #15
    Senior Administrator Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcc View Post
    I flew in the very first race, between avsim and flightsim and had a blast. There were few rules and little oversight, it was just a lot of fun. I was a co-founder of Team SOH back in the day too, when we didn't take it too seriously and just laughed our way through it, enjoying each other's company online. Then things started getting really competitive, the rules became increasingly complex, the Duenna was added, ... things got to the point we needed a team of lawyers to interpret the rules and a team of techies to manage all the peripherals (headsets, teamspeak, Duenna, google earth, etc.) :-) It was at this point my interest waned.

    I don't know if we could ever go back, though. If we could, it'd be great to re-capture the fun and general feeling of pseudo-chaos of those first few years. It just got a bit too complicated, competitive, etc. for my tastes. But that was just me.

    - dcc
    That's pretty much what happened with me as well plus life moving on. Currently, due to r/l considerations, I can't seem to get more than just a few minutes here and there to fly. But, if I could, I'd love to jump back in to the RTW.
    Let Being Helpful Be More Important Than Being Right.

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