Can someone help with a Jet Ranger heli issue?

[Bushi]

Hi everyone. sure hoping someone here with far more ability than me can help!

I have no idea how an “AIR” file works, but will assume that it controls a HUGE aspect of how an airplane / helicopter works in FS9, and that by editing the AIR file, certain parameters could be altered to adjust flying qualities. I say this because I have downloaded a modified AIR file from David Gibson that greatly stabilizes the handling and flying qualities of the Bell 206 Jet Ranger by Owen Hewitt. As I understand it, his helicopter used the default 206 AIR file.
Now, as GREAT an improvement as this AIR file has made, it falls a little short on one particular Jet Ranger model, that being the one with the low skids. With THIS model, the airframe sits with its tail lower, and this angles the rotor disc 4 degrees back from the vertical, which causes an annoying slide backwards when one is attempting to lift off, and makes landings rather rough, (issues NOT present with the standard 206 on high skids, with a horizontal rotor disc)
Yes, forward stick compensates, but spring pressures etc. in the joystick are frustrating to deal with. Better to have that damn rotor disc tilted 4 degrees forward so that FS THINKS it’s horizontal. (the actual visual model does not need to replicate this.. it will look just fine! )
I’ve tried to email David Gibson, to see if he could be of any assistance, but my note to him bounced back as undeliverable. Not surprising, since the file I downloaded is ten years old!! LOL
Does anyone know how to edit an AIR file to address this issue?
It sure would make flying this particular rendition of the Bell Jet Ranger more enjoyable!!
I’ve attached a couple of screenshots I’ve used to illustrate the issue.

If indeed this can be done by editing the AIR file, and it isn't 'protected' in some way, I can email it to whomever wants to take a crack at it. Or maybe someone has a current email address for David Gibson.
Cheers
Dave

[Bushi]

So.. I tried.. I downloaded an old air file editor (seems once upon a time I actually did this.. and had this tool once!!) from back in fs98 days, that is still supposed to work.. ..it didn't... LOL.....
I couldn't get into the air file and all it did was somehow corrupt the one I had.. so used my backup and all is well... the same as before.. but I have my helo back!

So... went into the cfg. and played around with a few things.. The annoying bit is that the 206 doesn't use a 'rotor' style set of parameters, just 'prop', so there wasn't much could be done.. EXCEPT.. I tweaked the C of G.. finding a nice spot to move it forward.. and now at least, once I get her tipped up on her skid tips and FAIRLY stable and level....I can get her into a hover without that massive tendency to 'back up'!!! Tiny joystick movements and it's acceptable now.

Of course, one of the factors involved in the joystick issue is the fact that it isn't a LONG lever.. !!! IF I had a proper length control stick.. I'll bet things would go a bit smoother..

Also.. if anyone knows Owen Hewitt, or the person who goes by the name DODOSIM,who tweaked Owens original model to give us the low skid version, and has an email or contact info, could you pass it along to me. Eagle Rotorcraft Simulations seems to be gone, so can't contact them directly.

I'm hoping to talk to dodosim and ask if he could 'tweak' the model to visually backdate it to an early Ranger.. (quite simple things really...once you have the program.. and source files LOL..)

cheers
Dave

[huub vink]

Hi Dave,

I really wish I had the knowledge to help you.

In the distant past I used a tool called AirEd (free) to fiddle with air files. Due to unpredictable mixed results I abandoned it.

A few years ago Jerry Beckwith release AirWrench ($15) which was a great tool, however you should allow yourself some time to get familiar with it. (Which I didn't..............)

Now there is a newer version called AirWrench2, which comes with AirWizEd ($25). See the link below.

http://www.mudpond.org/AirWrench_main.htm

I'm sure this tool can do what you want. Based on my experience with AirWrench I didn't puchase AirWrench2. I know I will not allow myself the time to learn how to use the program in a proper way.
And $25 is just a bit too much for a single time experiment.

But perhaps you would like to give it a try.

Cheers,
Huub

And is this the Dodosim you were looking for? http://www.dodosim.com/

[hertzie]

I have both AirEd and AirEd2, so send me a pm with your email-adress and I'll send them to you. Just like Huub, I didn't give myself the time to get fully familiar with these 2, but sometimes with a bit of luck you do come somewhere.

Safe landings,

hertzie.

[aeromed202]

When this model came out I asked a similar question here. Why does the real 206LS hover in a tail down attitude but this one does not. I was told it was a result of the mast angle (hope I recalled that correctly) as determined by the modeler and how flight characteristics follow from that. An example of how it should work, IMHO, would be the Boeing Chinook by Tom Woods and Mark Adams. As in real life this beast hovers in a tail down attitude. There are numerous other real helos that hover this way (UH1H, Blackhawk, etc) that unfortunately are not modeled to do so in fs2004.
As far as this 206LS after much trial and error I also achieved something like you described but since the real fix is apparently buried in the model itself that is where any help would need to be directed. I would be interested in any progress you make in this topic since this visual model just yearns to fly properly. Good luck

[Bushi]

When this model came out I asked a similar question here. Why does the real 206LS hover in a tail down attitude but this one does not. I was told it was a result of the mast angle (hope I recalled that correctly) as determined by the modeler and how flight characteristics follow from that. An example of how it should work, IMHO, would be the Boeing Chinook by Tom Woods and Mark Adams. As in real life this beast hovers in a tail down attitude. There are numerous other real helos that hover this way (UH1H, Blackhawk, etc) that unfortunately are not modeled to do so in fs2004.
As far as this 206LS after much trial and error I also achieved something like you described but since the real fix is apparently buried in the model itself that is where any help would need to be directed. I would be interested in any progress you make in this topic since this visual model just yearns to fly properly. Good luck

You are absolutely SPOT ON with this assumption that it has EVERYTHING to do with the mast angle!

To 'go straight up' in a heli, without any longitudinal translation (speed) the rotor disc must either be exactly horizontal, or the swashplate must be aligned (either statically rigged, or with pilot input) to give the rear half of the disc slightly more lift than the front half. That 'pilot input' part of the equation is most often used when alighting from surfaces that are NOT level.. (obviously) where some sort of input to the cyclic is required to tilt the machine as it begins to fly.

On the early 206's, with the low skid setup, giving a markedly tail down attitude when sitting on level ground, Bell tilted the entire mast assembly forward the appropriate number of degrees to allow the disc to sit level in relation to the ground, assuring that even with a the fuselage in this slight nose up attitude, a perfect (assuming no wind) vertical ascent was going to happen with the cyclic in a neutral position.

The reason they decided to do this I've been told is that they wanted the passengers to be sitting comfortably when in forward flight at cruise speed, when the rotor disc would now be tilted forward in relation to the horizon, the fuselage would have a somewhat level attitude, so that passengers would not feel as if they were leaning forward, or 'pointed towards the ground'! Remember.. Executive Helicopter.. gotta keep the passengers happy!

With the Jet Ranger III, of which most if not ALL have the higher skids, and a level fuselage, it appears from looking at some aircraft in photos (not all) that Bell may have tilted the mast to keep the 'grounded' helicopters rotors level with the horizon, and with the fuselage now level.. when you are at cruise, the cabin, and therefore seats, are also tilted forward at cruise. since most 206's these days are NOT executive transports, but work harder for a living, and spend MUCH more of their time at low speeds or in the hover, this arrangement I expect is much better for pilots and crew.

BUT, I've seen MANY photos of high skid older models with at least SOME forward tilt to the mast.

Sorry for the long winded explanation LOL... but there you have it..

And when the flightsim 'model' was reconfigured by dodosim to incorporate the low skids, this mast angle issue wasn't dealt with. Nothing against him, as he probably just didn't realize there WAS a difference!

I would LOVE to get hold of him, and have this issue with the model rectified, both for my FS9, and since this heli is available for FSX, it would make a greatly appreciated improvement. Not to mention getting rid of the 'trough' across the rear underside where the tall skids once lived... and that annoying bit of kit either side of the transmission housing which wasn't present on the early 206's.

I love this heli! And my connection with the one I've painted goes right back to that summer of 1967.

These images give a pretty good indication of the slight forward tilt of the mast.... even on the FOX FM high skid!!!

cheers,
Dave