Early Boeing B17D Flying Fortress for Fs9 - Page 3
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Thread: Early Boeing B17D Flying Fortress for Fs9

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane91 View Post
    That depends on whether it has deicers or not.

    Whatever they are.... Shessi did an excellent job.... way too good for just the fs9.lol


    Cheers mav

  2. #52
    SOH-CM-2019 Mick's Avatar
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    OK, I'm gonna paint "Mary-Ann" from "Air Force."

    I guess there will have to be two versions, one with the big number 10 on the nose and tail that she still wore when she got to Hawaii, and one without it as she appeared in the Philippines.

    The big 10 was typical of stateside advanced trainers so naturally it would have been painted out in the combat zone. Seldom do we see such attention to detail in a movie! (Although since the plane was part of a combat unit from the start, it probably never would have had the training markings at all. Still...)

    The thing I'm scratching my head about is the color of the number 10 and the name Mary-Ann. White or yellow? In one of the still photos posted earlier it seems like the number 10 might not be quite as light as the white star in the insignia, which might suggest yellow for the other markings, but the difference in tone is minimal so I'm far from convinced.

    Edit: OK, I decided. The markings look more like the yellow of the serial number than the white of the star, so yellow they shall be.

    Edit: I was too quick to praise the movie for authentic markings. While working on the skins I finally noticed that all the national insignia are the later roundel star without the red center. The red center wasn't deleted until s few months after the period depicted in the movie, but the movie plane has that style even in the pre-war opening scenes. Oh, well, it's only a movie.

    Edit: OK, done. It sure is easy when all you have to do is add some markings to those excellent base textures.
    Last edited by Mick; February 10th, 2019 at 09:21.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    Edit: OK, I decided. The markings look more like the yellow of the serial number than the white of the star, so yellow they shall be.
    They both look great Mick!


    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    Oh, well, it's only a movie.
    That's right. It's the 1943 Hollywood version of the Swoose saga. If you want to do a Swoose, I'd be happy to contribute
    the documentation that I have.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "The Swoose" as it appeared when
    it returned from the Southwest Pacific.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The original artwork.

  4. #54
    Wholy'smokes Mick! Those look amazing! Well done!

  5. #55
    SOH-CM-2019 Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane91 View Post
    They both look great Mick!
    That's right. It's the 1943 Hollywood version of the Swoose saga. If you want to do a Swoose, I'd be happy to contribute the documentation that I have.
    I might be tempted, but I think I'd be more likely to paint The Swoose as she appeared in her days in Panama as a VIP transport, all shiny bare metal with the big flag panel (a la Thunderbirds) showing all the countries she visited, rather than in her early wartime olive drab livery that looks just like every other OD Army plane.

    The biggest problems are that I might not be able, with a reasonable investment of time and effort, to find the AAHS Journal issue with the photos of The Swoose when she was based in Panama, and if I find them they might not have photos that show the entire aircraft and all its markings.

    The other is that Swoose artwork, which seems to have remained with the plane in all its guises. I have no clue about the colors even if I could paint it, which is beyond my skills. I took a quick Google and found some images but as so often happens, they weren't all the same, and none were a straight-on shot of the version on the airplane that I could just copy and paste onto a texture file.

    There are also other factors. For one, I am presently very deeply involved in another project, which has yet another high priority project pushed to the back burner. So I can squeeze in quick and easy repaints like those silver birds and Mary-Ann, but ones that require real research and time must be put on the back burner. Another is that wartime skins aren't usually of great interest to me. I do some, but they're not high on my priority list.

    So The Swoose might get painted, but not today and probably not real soon.

  6. #56
    SOH-CM-2019 Mick's Avatar
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    Early Swoose

    On the other hand, an early war Swoose wouldn't be any harder than Mary-Ann was.

    In my perusing I found a profile of the early Swoose on Wings Palette that includes a larger image of the artwork. We know that artwork is a suspicious reference, often involving artistic license or guesswork that turns out to be wrong. But it would make the paint job easy, since it's the only distinctive marking.

    Alas, it only shows the left side of the plane. I suppose it was the same on the right but I don't know. And I think there might have been something over the rear fuselage entry door.

    So, Hurricane91, do you have anything that shows the right side of the plane as it appeared when wearing the old OD camo? I mean something that shows whether there's something written over the door (or not) more clearly than the photo you posted? (If not maybe I'll just go with that.)

    It still won't get done today, but maybe before the week is out...

    One last issue - by the time The Swoose got to Australia and got those insignia without the red centers its finish was pretty beat up, and I can't do weathering worth swat. It would've looked a lot less weathered earlier when it had the red centers to the stars, but I don't know if it had the artwork in those days. Does anyone know? Hurri, do you have anything that would answer that question?

    If I do the basic paint job, would anyone else want to weather it prior to release?



  7. #57
    One of the best things I like about your repaints, HISTORICALLY CORRECT! (Or pretty darn close to it). The eye candy adds to that quality as well. Superb paints, Mick!

    BB686
    "El gato que camina como hombre" -- The cat that walks like a man

  8. #58
    Mick, would you like me to send you the Swoose images I have collected so far? If so, PM directions to me, and I'll start packing them up.

  9. #59
    SOH-CM-2019 Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane91 View Post
    Mick, would you like me to send you the Swoose images I have collected so far? If so, PM directions to me, and I'll start packing them up.

    PM sent. All I need is confirmation or refutation of the artwork being on the left side. We know from the photo ypou posted that it was on the left, but there appears to be other stuff around or behind the artwork that I can't make out in that photo.

    Otherwise, no markings at all except the national insignia. It will be quick and easy if I can get the artwork without too much trouble.

  10. #60
    I wasted about 1.5 hours of my life last night trying to get the "Swoose" logo onto Shessi's OD fuselage texture. Mick and others here are far better painters than I am so I will stand by and see what others can come up with. I was about to tape a piece of paper to my monitor screen and trace the bird off a photo.

  11. #61
    SOH-CM-2019 Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TARPSBird View Post
    I wasted about 1.5 hours of my life last night trying to get the "Swoose" logo onto Shessi's OD fuselage texture. Mick and others here are far better painters than I am so I will stand by and see what others can come up with. I was about to tape a piece of paper to my monitor screen and trace the bird off a photo.
    I think I can manage it. Hurricane91 sent me an image I think I can manage with if I can clean up the edges so it will look good on the texture file. The black undersides might be more of a problem for me than the artwork. You know how it can be with color changes.

    I tried to post this reply yesterday but ongoing connection problems kept me from getting into the forum for a while, then when I finally got in and read your post I couldn't get the reply screen.

    Anyway, I probably won't have time to work on the Swoose today. Maybe even for a few days. Or I might find time sooner than I expect. We'll see...

  12. #62
    Thanks Mick for your creative efforts. I'll be looking forward to "The Swoose"... It flies!

  13. #63
    SOH-CM-2019 Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TARPSBird View Post
    Thanks Mick for your creative efforts. I'll be looking forward to "The Swoose"... It flies!
    Life has taken a turn towards the frantic and my hobby time has been very limited the past few days, and will probably remain so for at least a few more days. Even my current project with David has had to be short shrifted and the Swoose is on the back burner, probably until some time next week. But it hasn't been forgotten!

  14. #64
    SOH-CM-2019 Mick's Avatar
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    I haven't forgotten The Swoose. I've done some dabbling in the occasional free moment.

    The Swoose moulted and grew new plumage more than once during its service life, so we will have to have more than one virtual Swoose. I hope for at least two and possibly three.

    We have photos of The Swoose in Australia with the red centers of its insignia painted over and a great deal of heavy weathering on its black undersides, which were probably slathered with lampblack rather than paint. I'll paint that one if I can manage the weathered undersides, but I'm no good at weathering. The artwork is done, and it's the same for any time period.

    We have a photos of The Swoose back in the USA, all gussied up for a war bond tour with the early wartime red centers added back to the insignia and a big Thunderbirds style flag panel on her nose. Her uppers look nice but the undersides are even more heavily weathered than in the war zone photos. As for the earlier livery, I'll do it if I can manage the weathering.

    We also have photos of The Swoose in Panama, and I can definitely do that one. I'm curious to see if the flag panel can show up with any sort of resolution. I almost hope not, because then I'll have to make an authentic one, cutting and pasting from a graphic of a T-birds panel, all in the right places. If it's too small for that I can just use a section from a Thunderbirds flag panel. I have a good graphic of that.

    It will be a while yet, but we will have our Sweese before too long.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    I haven't forgotten The Swoose. I've done some dabbling in the occasional free moment.

    The Swoose moulted and grew new plumage more than once during its service life, so we will have to have more than one virtual Swoose. I hope for at least two and possibly three.

    We have photos of The Swoose in Australia with the red centers of its insignia painted over and a great deal of heavy weathering on its black undersides, which were probably slathered with lampblack rather than paint. I'll paint that one if I can manage the weathered undersides, but I'm no good at weathering. The artwork is done, and it's the same for any time period.

    We have a photos of The Swoose back in the USA, all gussied up for a war bond tour with the early wartime red centers added back to the insignia and a big Thunderbirds style flag panel on her nose. Her uppers look nice but the undersides are even more heavily weathered than in the war zone photos. As for the earlier livery, I'll do it if I can manage the weathering.

    We also have photos of The Swoose in Panama, and I can definitely do that one. I'm curious to see if the flag panel can show up with any sort of resolution. I almost hope not, because then I'll have to make an authentic one, cutting and pasting from a graphic of a T-birds panel, all in the right places. If it's too small for that I can just use a section from a Thunderbirds flag panel. I have a good graphic of that.

    It will be a while yet, but we will have our Sweese before too long.
    Thanks for the updates Mick. I'm sure your Swoose paints will be as delightful as your B-17D and B-26 skins.

  16. #66
    SOH-CM-2019 Mick's Avatar
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    OK, The Swoose, actually three Sweese, are painted. Now I just have to find time to make screenshots and package them up for release. They are:

    First, The Swoose as it appeared soon after its arrival in Australia in January 1942 with a fresh coat of camouflage paint. I found some photos of the plane a few months later when it was severely weathered, but several attempts to depict that only served to remind me that I can't do weathering worth swat, so I abandoned the attempt. In the words of a great American philosopher, "A man's gotta know his limitations."

    Next, The Swoose as it appeared in the USA in 1943 after being repainted and spiffed up for a war bond tour. It looks like it did in January '42 except for the addition of a flag panel on the nose featuring the flags of the lands the Swoose had visited.

    Third, The Swoose as it appeared in 1945 after being overhauled and having its camouflage stripped, gleaming silver with the flag panel on the nose and the Swoose artwork preserved on a circle of OD camouflage paint.

    If you look closely at the flag panel you may notice a lot of repetition. That's because most of "The lands the Swoose has visited," as the line above the flag panel reads, were colonies in those days and flew the flags of their colonial masters or variations on them, indicated on the panel by the name of each land under its flag. There were three Stars'n'Stripes (for Hawaii, the Philippines and Canton Island - oddly, not one for the USA), quite a few Red Ensigns of the UK with the Union Jack in the corner and a small graphic for the colony on the red field, several Dutch tricolors and a couple French ones. It wasn't until The Swoose flew south to work out of the Canal Zone and began to visit some of the independent nations of Latin America, plus Cuba and Haiti in the Caribbean that it started picking up some variety with the addition of unique flags of independent countries. Even then, in the Caribbean it found still more British and Dutch colonies.

    I made the 1945 version of the flag panel pretty much authentic, but since the flag panel is so small on the textures and can't be seen in much detail in the sim, I just used a copy of it for the 1943 skin. In fact, the 1943 version really looked very much like the 1945 version, much more so than one might expect considering all the places The Swoose hadn't been to yet in 1943.

    The skins will be uploaded soon, but I might not get a chance to package them up today.

    EDIT:

    I did get a chance. The sweese have flown, right up the pipe.
    Last edited by Mick; March 9th, 2019 at 10:04.

  17. #67
    These are great textures Mick! Thank you. Excellent art work. The Swoose logo and flags worked out with fine detail.
    We're heading out from Batchelor Airfield up to Del Monte first thing tomorrow morning.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #68
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Nice work Mick and thanks for the interesting read about the history of this aircraft.

    Cheers,
    Huub

  19. #69
    Very nice paints, Mick. In the time it took you to do this package and the "Mary Ann" package I'd still be trying to get the "Swoose" logo right.

  20. #70
    SOH-CM-2019 Mick's Avatar
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    I just put up a small fix for the 1945 version. I'd neglected to remove the black de-icer boots from the stabilizers.

    Just drop the new texture into the Swoose45 texture folder.

    BTW, I didn't draw that Swoose artwork from scratch. I copied it from a photo and just cleaned it up, resized it and pasted it onto the texture file. I could never paint something like that from scratch!

  21. #71
    SOH-CM-2019 Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane91 View Post
    These are great textures Mick! Thank you. Excellent art work. The Swoose logo and flags worked out with fine detail.
    We're heading out from Batchelor Airfield up to Del Monte first thing tomorrow morning.
    Glad you like it. Don't forget, in its early days in Australia, when its camouflage was fresh and it was flying combat missions back to the Philippines, the Swoose was still a bomber. It wasn't until it was so beat up that it was retired from combat that General Brett hauled it out of the scrapyard and used it was a transport because nothing else was available.

    I considered a skin depicting The Swoose as she appeared when still based i the Philippines when it still had its original pre-war natural metal finish, but in those days she had no name and no artwork, and not even any unit markings. So it seemed rather pointless to paint it that way. If anyone wants a skin to depict it at that time, just remove the tail number from Shessi's bare metal skin.

  22. #72
    Wonderful Mick! I read somewhere that actress Swoosie Kurtz was named after this plane.
    Do not fear the enemy, for they can take only your life. Fear the media far more, for they will destroy your honour.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by stoney View Post
    Wonderful Mick! I read somewhere that actress Swoosie Kurtz was named after this plane.
    That is correct Stoney. Swoosie Kurtz (b. 1944) was the only child of Margo and Col. Frank Kurtz. Col. Kurtz flew the Swoose extensively in the Southwest Pacific Area as General George Brett's
    personal transport. Kurtz later commanded the 463d bombardment Group in Italy. His B-17G was named "The Swoose (1944 Model) It Flys?" A remarkable life story story by any standard.

    http://lanbob.com/lanbob/H-42Auth/KF32P.htm

  24. #74
    SOH-CM-2019 Mick's Avatar
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    Very interesting!

    A lot of pilots named their planes after their kids. This is the only time I've heard of where a pilot named his kid after his plane.

  25. #75

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