gMax animated object invicible at frame 0 ingame - possible?
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  1. #1

    gMax animated object invicible at frame 0 ingame - possible?

    having small question.
    is it possible to set a 0 keyframe at CFS3 animated object as invicible ingame?

    this is happen in older FS series naturally, if I good remember, but I would need it for CFS3 airplane. now is my mesh object hidden at frame 0 in the fuselage. at frame 1 is it visible pushed behind the tail. its about parachute parts tagged as spoiler (airbrake). from some angles and distance it is flickering outside the fuselage a bit, I noticed.

    there is a few ways how to fix it like moving the object(s) a bit there or here, redo the object rotation at frame 0 vs frame 1 to act like inverted normals or maybe to use my favorite wheelwell tag somehow there... but thats not the point what I am asking now

  2. #2
    You could make the object super small and then use a scale animation to inflate it to normal size. Just dont make the object so small that the vertices collapse and dont apply the scale at frame 0. Other than that , I don't know of a way to make an object invisible at frame 0

  3. #3
    oh, wait, scale animation does work in MS FS series?

    anyway yeah, the 0 frame question is the point

  4. #4
    Yeah, I would not think that a scale animation would work in CFS3 so I never tried it til today. I have a working test model to show the results if needed.

  5. #5
    Scale animations don't work in any version of FS or CFS afaik, you'll have to do some object squishing at the vertex level so the squashed parachute can hide inside the aircraft tail.
    Tom
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  6. #6
    Scale animations don't work in any version of FS or CFS afaik,
    It works. I have tested it.

  7. #7
    SOH-CM-2024 Pat Pattle's Avatar
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    It works. I have tested it.
    Has it been used in any released model Steve? Would love to see it
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  8. #8
    no, but I can send you my test model.

  9. #9
    SOH-CM-2024 Pat Pattle's Avatar
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    Yes please, you always were a star Steve! My email is still the same if you have it.
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  10. #10
    Clive,
    you have mail at your msn addy,

  11. #11
    Brilliant! I love this community's ability to make the old girl bend to our will, and do things people never thought possible in CFS3.
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  12. #12
    Yum, the original thread question turned into a pretty nice learn infact, I can really confirm the scale animation made in gmax works in CFS3. Did a few tests. However something works, something not, if just the gmax export to m3d lacks the well known scale warning, you are a winner

    It opens a few new possibilities for CFS3 usage, thank you sdsbolt

    As to the chute feature the scale didn't worked, but rescaling a tire or gear doors tests worked well. I can try harder, but the 0 frame animation hiding still would be a perfect solution for me.

    I've moved the chute squeezed stuff bit more into the fuselage and the flickering through the surface appears from larger distance then. I've used also the wheelwell tag, which does the 0 frame hide feature infact, but it works when gear is retracted only. One of the simpler solutions is to make the chute same color as skin is, then is it almost unnoticable.

  13. #13
    That is​ good to know, cheers Steve!
    Tom
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  14. #14
    Just a wild guess, maybe completely wrong, but since you mention flickering - does the chute have any semi-transparency in the texture or opacity value?

    CFS3 renders opaque (DXT1 texture, full opacity) and semi-transparent objects (DXT3/5 or <255 opacity) separately with slightly different z buffer settings, with semi-transparent objects biased as if they were closer to the camera.
    This could make the chute pop through the fuselage.

    Or it may be just a precision limitation of z-buffer. I have solved precision issues in DX11, but it is not ready.

  15. #15

    Icon5

    Steve,
    Fantastic find...and proving it, well done!

    Now the big question I wonder if it will work in other sims?

    And did you do this in Gmax?

    Cheers

    Shessi

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by AnKor View Post
    since you mention flickering - does the chute have any semi-transparency in the texture or opacity value? CFS3 renders opaque (DXT1 texture, full opacity) and semi-transparent objects (DXT3/5 or <255 opacity) separately with slightly different z buffer settings, with semi-transparent objects biased as if they were closer to the camera. This could make the chute pop through the fuselage.
    oh yes, you really hit the nail on the head, AnKor
    my last hope to me seemed to test some material / texture properities a bit yet. the chute gmax material is solid, but the texture is semitransparent DXT5. I made it DXT1 1bit alpha now and the problem disappeared, thank you to show me the right way!

    someone mentioned the CFS3 z-buffer "depth" is tweakable in some config file, so it would be a lot more sexy solution, but as many here know me already, I am aggainst any end-user manual edits for a specific airplane add-on, if such work is not life important. so the Arado chute is a DXT1. it is not so cute look like the original DXT5, but I can live with that. the DXT5 original chute texture can be enpacked as optional file replace in the public release.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Shessi View Post
    And did you do this in Gmax?
    I am interrested wich another way we would be able to make CFS3 m3d files except gMax export. or do you mean some back-engineering conversion tools? or there is some newer FSDS? I am bit frozen in time when it goes about new alternative modder tools.

  18. #18
    Hi B,
    Unfortunately no, you cannot make CFS3 .M3D files from FSDS.

    I was asking Steve about the animation and the CFS3 animation call that is modelled, as it may be something I can make in FSDS and therefore use this animation in other sims.

    Cheers

    Shessi

  19. #19
    Yeah Mark Gmax only for this test. I do not know if it works on other MS flight sims . I am surprised it works for CFS3. I notice the expanded objects don't cast appropriate sized shadows so maybe there is some other weirdness to be expected??

    BTW. when we gonna see some of your excellent models in cfs3?

    Steve

  20. #20
    BorekS, glad it helped

    Quote Originally Posted by sdsbolt View Post
    I notice the expanded objects don't cast appropriate sized shadows
    Interesting. If it is about DX9 shaders, then I think the renderer should handle scaling. There's one place where I calculate object bounds from vertex positions without applying any scaling transform and this calculation is used to cut off parts of the object not contributing to the shadow (a bit tricky to explain).
    But if I understand correctly, vertex positions correspond to 100% scale, so if you shrink the object it should be ok. Going over 100% may indeed cause some missing shadows.

    Maybe there's something else, though.

  21. #21
    But if I understand correctly, vertex positions correspond to 100% scale, so if you shrink the object it should be ok. Going over 100% may indeed cause some missing shadows.
    thanks. I will have to check that out when i get a chance

  22. #22
    Kurier auf Stube...pauke! NachtPiloten's Avatar
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    Icon25 scaling teaching new dogs old tricks....

    Scaling has been used to make parts and features of the planes disappear/appear for some time. Not sure who lead me to that but when I made the do217 n2 (8-10 yrs ago) with the drag chute I used scaling to hide/deploy the chute using animation. Just animated the chute to hide at 0 and say 100 fully deployed using the spoiler option for that feature. Glad Steve mentioned this as here are too many modeling methods that have been lost over the years.

    Scaling can be used for animation with gears, say you have a dust cover or boot that covers the gear oleo and when the gear compresses the boot needs to as well. Just scale the boot to "shorten" and then "expand" say along the y axis using frames 50-100 and the boot is animated.

    I also used scaling (not animated) to hide the props on the HE177 so that you could have 4 engines and props, but only see two at any time. Needed this to properly model the engines and thrust in the airfile

    So look at other features of the model that need this type of idea and if there is an animation available you can use this scaling idea. Should work in vc's too I'd imagine.

  23. #23
    great it is confirmed and also it is not any brand new discover - I really would wonder - so it works fine, it just has been missed in times, or better said, not usually used feature, it seems. probably because it is not mentioned in the official (CFS3) SKD thats why my chute solution is made standard way

    what still is not asnwered is if such feature works at other sims like FS200x series, FSX or so. you know, if we have the gmax CFS3 project, it can be relativelly easy convertable into other sim...

    Quote Originally Posted by NachtPiloten View Post
    I also used scaling (not animated) to hide the props on the HE177 so that you could have 4 engines and props, but only see two at any time. Needed this to properly model the engines and thrust in the airfile
    I feel here some promising potential for Arado Ar 234B RATOs maybe...

  24. #24
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    Icon23 just a quick note

    Quote Originally Posted by BorekS View Post
    great it is confirmed and also it is not any brand new discover - I really would wonder - so it works fine, it just has been missed in times, or better said, not usually used feature, it seems. probably because it is not mentioned in the official (CFS3) SKD thats why my chute solution is made standard way

    what still is not asnwered is if such feature works at other sims like FS200x series, FSX or so. you know, if we have the gmax CFS3 project, it can be relativelly easy convertable into other sim...

    I feel here some promising potential for Arado Ar 234B RATOs maybe...
    Just an aside. Scaling usually makes gmax mad and states that you need to remove the scaling or the part will not display, I do not remember if you need to remove the scaling or ignore the warning message. Try it and see.

  25. #25
    Ted, Steve,
    Are we not talking about two separate types of 'animations' here?

    Steve, when you say 'scaling' are you not talking about something starting small and growing larger ie a stored parachute and then gradually getting bigger(scaling up) as it deploys?

    And Ted you're talking about something being displayed or not, and then disappearing or appearing? A simple on/off call?


    Cheers

    Shessi

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