Douglas Dolphin

[Mick]

Well, we have Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Bugs Bunny, Woody Woodpecker, Huckleberry Hound, Deputy Dawg, Mighty Mouse, Yogi Bear, and now we have Douglas Dolphin.

Seriously though, David and I, with help from friends Papi Vader and Milton Shupe, have made an FS9 Douglas Dolphin. Well, David made it and I painted it. As the blurb on the download page says:

The Douglas Dolphin was an amphibian of the 1930s. Designed at the end of the 1920s as a luxury air yacht, its market was ruined by the Great Depression and it became mostly a military aircraft. A few Coast Guard Dolphins served into World War Two, but only two survived the war. One flew until 1998 and is now the sole survivor, much modified, on display at the Naval Aviation Museum. This package includes early and later models of the Dolphin and over a dozen authentic skins of U.S. Army, Navy, Coast Guard and civilian Dolphins.

Once again I went overboard wirh the skins, producing no less than eighteen of them depicting the Dolphin in US Coast Guard, Navy and Army service, and as an airliner and an executive transport. I'd have done more if I had adequate documentation for the colors and markings on several others that there are black & white photos of with no color information and/or incomplete views of their markings. As some of you know, I can be compulsive about painting skins.

The Dolphin was produced in a number of variants and we have chosen two representative configurations, and early model with the corrugated tail with triple fins and a later model with the smooth tail and a single fin. The later model has flaps and the early one does not. Both have P&W engines, though some Dolphins had Wrights, so not every plane depicted in the skins has an exact match to one of the models. Most are correct and the others are visually pretty close.

There are standard and wide angle panels to accommodate any monitor.

Here are a couple screen shots of some of the skins:

[zswobbie1]

Many, many thanks for the Dolphin....I'm awaiting with baited breath for it to appear>

[Shessi]

Hi Mick,
Good ac addition, and very nice skins there! Like it a lot.

Many thanks

Cheers

Shessi

[normb]

Wow! You guys are great! Thanks for sharing this model and the Cessna Airmaster too. Great subjects. Norm

[stoney]

Great! Thanks Mick!

[darrenvox]

Nice job mick and milton

[huub vink]

So far I had never heard of this aircraft. But its definitely a sharp looking thing

Thanks,
Huub

[Mick]

Nice job mick and milton

Um, that would be David and friends.

[zswobbie1]

Now this looks like an interesting plane.

I have found a payware version for FSX, is there anything for FS2004?
I have looked at the usual sites for it.

Any ideas?

Regards,
Robin

From 21st April...
Coincidence or not, many thanks, guys..

[Mick]

Well, I flew the Dolphin! That's pretty remarkable, considering that I spend almost all my hobby time fiddling with aircraft or scenery, and hardly ever fly the planes I download, even including the ones I work on or paint.

Anyhow, I flew it from Coast Guard Air Station Salem (Massachusetts), the scenery David and I made some years ago, and I no sooner got it into the water than I found myself stymied by the lack of a water rudder.

When I painted the skins I poured over scores of photos and never saw any suggestion of a water rudder on the real Dolphin. Apparently Dolphin pilots had to steer with differential throttle and prop wash over the tail rudder. Differential throttle isn't possible with the single throttle level on my control stick, and using the mouse to operate the throttles individually in the 2D panel or the VC is just too awkward for me, so I made a virtual water rudder.

If anyone else wants a water rudder, just patch this last contact point into the end of the Contact Points section:

point.9=5, -16.80, 0.00, -1.90, 3200, 0, 0.00, 15.0, 0.00, 0.00, 0.65, 1.00, 1.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

To "lower" it and make it function, use Shift+W on your keyboard.

It's apparently not authentic, but it's invisible, so it won't clutter up the visual model with something that shouldn't be there.

[Desert Rat]

Mick, IIRC there was/is a gauge that solves that problem, it uses rudder input to adjust the individual engine throttles to allow you to steer with variable thrust, I think it was initially for the default DC-3 so works great with 2 engines. Never tried it on a four engined beastie tho.

look for 'taxi_throttles.zip' at Avsim

[Mick]

Mick, IIRC there was/is a gauge that solves that problem, it uses rudder input to adjust the individual engine throttles to allow you to steer with variable thrust, I think it was initially for the default DC-3 so works great with 2 engines. Never tried it on a four engined beastie tho.
look for 'taxi_throttles.zip' at Avsim

I just took a copy and read the instructions. What a great little gizmo! I wish I'd spotted it when it came out. In the twelve years since then I've made many a tail wheel steerable that really shouldn't be, and added a couple virtual water rudders to planes like the Dolphin that shouldn't have them.

I might go back and change some of those planes if I could remember which ones. Now I will certainly know what to do the next time the situation arises.
Thanks for the tip!

[gaucho_59]

I just took a copy and read the instructions. What a great little gizmo! I wish I'd spotted it when it came out. In the twelve years since then I've made many a tail wheel steerable that really shouldn't be, and added a couple virtual water rudders to planes like the Dolphin that shouldn't have them.

I might go back and change some of those planes if I could remember which ones. Now I will certainly know what to do the next time the situation arises.
Thanks for the tip!

After a long absence in GITMO returned to mainland and found this jewel.

This is an extremely interesting aircraft... observed that the texture for the wings is in error....
The same are doped fabric, thus I have created new ones faithful to photos found in the net.
The fuselage is indeed metal...
Comments welcome

gaucho_59

[Mick]

After a long absence in GITMO returned to mainland and found this jewel.
This is an extremely interesting aircraft... observed that the texture for the wings is in error....
The same are doped fabric, thus I have created new ones faithful to photos found in the net.
The fuselage is indeed metal...
Comments welcome
Gaucho_59

Your textures are completely wrong! Only a very few of the last Dolphins had metal wings, and those were only partly fabric covered. Even those few didn't have completely fabric wings as shown in your textures.

The vast majority of Dolphins had wooden wings with smooth, featureless top and bottom surfaces and ailerons, just like our model. This is evident not only in the detailed reference material, but in scores of photos of the planes in service.

None of the skins provided depict any of those last few planes.

Your research was sloppy and your results incorrect!

I suspect that if you found indications on the web of Dolphins with fabric wings, they were fanciful artwork that cannot be considered as reference material, or perhaps a cutaway plan that showed the ribs without the plywood covering.

I hope you won't release those textures. If you do, you might fool some people into ruining the authenticity of their Dolphin.

The wooden wings were mentioned in the ReadMe, if you'd bothered to read it, and were discussed in detail in at least one of the references provided (Pete Bowers' article in Airpower magazine), which you apparently didn't bother to consult.

I might also mention that your fuselage texture appears to depict a plane with a certain amount of wear and tear. None of our Dolphins were in service for as long as ten years, and most for far less. Also, the Navy, Marine and Coast Guard's planes for certain, and the Wrigley and CNAC planes almost certainly, because they were were operated in salt water, were maintained immaculately and never showed any trace of weathering or wear and tear, as shown in any number of photos of these planes in service. So I don't think your fuselage textures can be considered correct either. Most of the Dolphins depicted in our skins looked brand new or very nearly so, either because they were in fact new, or because they were maintained in like-new condition.

Just because a couple of planes were built with metal wings, and because two (2) of them survived past WW2 and may have shown their age in their visual appearance, doesn't mean we should fictionally alter the look of the vast majority of the planes to look like those last few built, or to look old like the last two surviving planes might have in their old age.

If in fact you found photos (not drawings or art) of one of those last planes with the metal wings, you should paint a complete skin to depict it, because none of our skins depict one of those planes. I scoured the books and magazines and the web for such a photo and I would've painted that plane myself for the sake of variety, assuming enough information about colors and markings, but I couldn't find one despite considerable effort.

David and I thoroughly researched the Dolphin for a couple months while we worked on the model and the skins, and all the references in that long list provided in the ReadMe confirm that we got it right.

[johndetrick]

The USN/USMC did get a few RD-3's

OPERATIONAL HISTORY
The USN acquired nine Dolphins, three RD-2's and six RD-3's. The first RD-2 delivered, manufacturers serial number (msn) 1138, had luxurious accommodations for five passengers and was placed at the disposal of President Franklin D. Roosevelt although he never used it. The aircraft was accepted by the Navy on 6 June 1933 and remained in service until being transferred to the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) on 4 December 1939. The two other RD-2's were intended for use by senior Naval and Marine officers and served at Naval Air Station (NAS) Anacostia, District of Columbia; NAS Coco Solo, Canal Zone; and with Utility Squadron ONE (VJ-1). The RD-3's served with VJ-1 and VJ-2 and at NAS Coco Solo; NAS Pearl Harbor, Territory of Hawaii; and NAS Norfolk, Virginia. In December 1941, two RD-3's were still in use at NAS Coco Solo and NAS Pearl Harbor.
One RD-3 was transferred to the USMC and was assigned to Marine Utility Squadron SIX (VMJ-6M) at Marine Corps Air Station (MCAS) Quantico, Virginia in 1935. By February 1936, this aircraft had been transferred to VO-9M [redesignated Marine Scouting Squadron THREE (VMS-3) on 1 July 1937] at Marine Corps Air Facility (MCAF), Bourne Field, St. Thomas, Virgin Islands where it remained until 1939. In 1936, two RD-2's had been transferred to the Marines; one was assigned to VMS-3 and the second remained at MCAS Quantico as a spare for VMS-3. By January 1939, only one RD-2 was on the inventory assigned to VMJ-1 at MCAS Quantico and this aircraft was stricken by March 1940.

From: http://www.microworks.net/pacific/av...ransports.html

[Mick]

The USN/USMC did get a few RD-3's...

Yep. The Marines only got the one, but they moved it around some and painted it in at least two liveries and markings.

I painted the one the Navy lent to NACA, but I didn't include it in the final product because it didn't look much different from the VIP one I did include, the one that was meant for FDR that he never flew in. I also passed on a couple others. VJ-1 had a couple without their green tail, but I thought they looked boring compared to the one that did have the green tail. And the Fleet Air Base at Pearl had one that I didn't paint because it had no color and few markings - boring. I might've done those if I hadn't already gone overboard with eighteen skins.

The Army's planes interested me because they started out as transports and ended up as tactical aircraft - the opposite of the usual progression as planes age. Fortunately for their crews, the whole concept of Observation Amphibians was recognized as absurd before it had to be demonstrated in combat. The idea of small-ish planes like the Grumman Goose stooging about over the front lines is crazy enough; it's hard to imagine it with a big plane like the Dolphin. What a target!

If you hadn't already noticed, the Dolphin was a lot bigger than it looks at first glance. I first imagined it as a Goose-sized plane, but it's much bigger than that. If I recall correctly, the wing span was about sixty feet.

I wanted to paint a CNAC airliner but photos showed that they had Chinese characters on top of the wings, and they didn't show them clearly enough to copy them, just clearly enough to see that they were different from the markings on the bow - which I could see clearly enough to know that they were beyond my talents to paint. The pics are B&W but it would be a safe guess that they wore PanAm's livery, silver with dark blue markings.

I would've liked to paint one of the two privately owned non-airliner Dolphins but couldn't come up with any color information. Likewise for a couple of the executive transports. Black & white photos showed interesting schemes and markings, but no color information. The Esso plane looked especially colorful, and it would be safe to guess that the colors were red, white and blue, but there's no way to tell what parts were red and what parts were blue, and some of the smaller markings are too fuzzy to be made out. Bah!

I'm glad you're interested in the Dolphin, and I appreciate your comments. Now I'll go and click on the link you provided.

P.S.: the link didn't work as posted, but some clicking about found the Dolphin page:

http://www.microworks.net/pacific/aviation/rd_transports.htm

That's an interesting site! Definitely a keeper!

[gaucho_59]

Your textures are completely wrong! Only a very few of the last Dolphins had metal wings, and those were only partly fabric covered. Even those few didn't have completely fabric wings as shown in your textures.

The vast majority of Dolphins had wooden wings with smooth, featureless top and bottom surfaces and ailerons, just like our model. This is evident not only in the detailed reference material, but in scores of photos of the planes in service.

None of the skins provided depict any of those last few planes.

Your research was sloppy and your results incorrect!

I suspect that if you found indications on the web of Dolphins with fabric wings, they were fanciful artwork that cannot be considered as reference material, or perhaps a cutaway plan that showed the ribs without the plywood covering.

I hope you won't release those textures. If you do, you might fool some people into ruining the authenticity of their Dolphin.

The wooden wings were mentioned in the ReadMe, if you'd bothered to read it, and were discussed in detail in at least one of the references provided (Pete Bowers' article in Airpower magazine), which you apparently didn't bother to consult.

I might also mention that your fuselage texture appears to depict a plane with a certain amount of wear and tear. None of our Dolphins were in service for as long as ten years, and most for far less. Also, the Navy, Marine and Coast Guard's planes for certain, and the Wrigley and CNAC planes almost certainly, because they were were operated in salt water, were maintained immaculately and never showed any trace of weathering or wear and tear, as shown in any number of photos of these planes in service. So I don't think your fuselage textures can be considered correct either. Most of the Dolphins depicted in our skins looked brand new or very nearly so, either because they were in fact new, or because they were maintained in like-new condition.

Just because a couple of planes were built with metal wings, and because two (2) of them survived past WW2 and may have shown their age in their visual appearance, doesn't mean we should fictionally alter the look of the vast majority of the planes to look like those last few built, or to look old like the last two surviving planes might have in their old age.

If in fact you found photos (not drawings or art) of one of those last planes with the metal wings, you should paint a complete skin to depict it, because none of our skins depict one of those planes. I scoured the books and magazines and the web for such a photo and I would've painted that plane myself for the sake of variety, assuming enough information about colors and markings, but I couldn't find one despite considerable effort.

David and I thoroughly researched the Dolphin for a couple months while we worked on the model and the skins, and all the references in that long list provided in the ReadMe confirm that we got it right.

Let me preface my response by stating that these textures are just a trial.... not meant to be published anytime soon.
In other words, I had only your textures to test.... so I used them. Notwithstanding, I am attaching a photo that
led me to believe the fabric covered surfaces are not my invention...
I think it is obvious from the photo that these wings are in fact doped fabric NOT metal... This appears to be a Coast
Guard example... obviously in showroom condition... (restored)
In my ignorance, I assumed that given the era (not very profuse in monocoque sheet metal covered fuselages) it was representative...
At any rate, your offensive reaction (that is how it is perceived by me) is not what I would have expected... rather a word of counsel and shared wisdom would have a far
more positive effect.
Thanks anyway for the bits of information.

Gaucho_59

[this4dave2]

If you check out these photos you can see that the wings are not doped fabric and should not be depicted as such




David

[gaucho_59]

If you check out these photos you can see that the wings are not doped fabric and should not be depicted as such




David

Funny, the aircraft is the same in the picture I attached...
and in my picture you can see the single covering (not in sections as metal skins are applied usually)
observe that in the picture I attached there are no riveted or spot welded seams.... and the ribs project slightly from a
perfectly smooth surface... No seams at all.... just a single covering... (as in doped fabric)
There are no seam lines as in the original textures.... then they are ALL error!

Gaucho_59

[gaucho_59]

Funny, the aircraft is the same in the picture I attached...
and in my picture you can see the single covering (not in sections as metal skins are applied usually)
observe that in the picture I attached there are no riveted or spot welded seams.... and the ribs project slightly from a
perfectly smooth surface... No seams at all.... just a single covering... (as in doped fabric)
There are no seam lines as in the original textures.... then they are ALL error!
Furthermore, if you look at the pic you attached... notice the aileron on the left wing.... IT IS FABRIC TOO

Gaucho_59

Here are the ribs!!!!!

Gaucho_59

[gaucho_59]

Here are the ribs!!!!!

Gaucho_59

Actually, we all seem to be in error...

Dolphin 1931 (ATC 422, 432 505, 506, 2-366, 2-479, 2-482, 2-483, 2-486, 2-487) = 8pChwMAm; two 300hp Wright J-6; span: 60'0" length: 42'6" load: 2590# v: 141/115/62 range: 450-525. $35,000. All-metal, semi-monocoque fuselage had five water-tight bays; wood-framed wing was covered with plywood; metal-clad empennage had fabric movable surfaces.

the wings were covered with plywood.... like a Mosquito!

Gaucho_59

[this4dave2]

I think if you check #14 above you will note that Mick told you and i quote "The vast majority of Dolphins had wooden wings with smooth, featureless top and bottom surfaces"
this aircraft was initially named Rover, bought by William E. Boeing, which ended up in CAA (forerunner of the current Federal Aviation Administration) service. Sole surviving example, painted in USCG markings



we did do very thorough research on this aircraft it is as accurate as the available information that we were able to find

I would appreciate it if you would just drop the subject.

If this whole thing was turned around you would not like to have anyone try and make out your work was flawed in any way publicly that is unless you are trying to embarrass us for what reason you would want to do this for some unknown reason.

David

[Mick]

That's clearly a metal wing on the museum Dolphin. Knowledge of that particular plane's history as one of the very last Dolphins built, and the inspection panels visible on the undersides, make that clear. I think we all can agree on that. It was one of the very last Dolphins built and one of the very few with metal wings, and therefore not representative of almost all Dolphin production, even before being heavily modified into its present configuration.

What matters, at least to me, is that it isn't representative of the planes we included in our package. I did paint that plane in its earlier incarnation as the Boeing "Rover," and I didn't bother to put in those little inspection panels. I know that's not completely authentic, but it was the only civilian executive Dolphin I could find color information for.

The photos show that even the metal winged Dolphins had smooth-surfaced, sheet metal wing skins. In his article, Pete Bowers says that those last few metal-winged Dolphins had partially fabric covered wings, but he doesn't tell us what parts were fabric covered and he shows us no photos. I suspect it was the ailerons and some other sections, but the photos of the museum plane are no help with that.

Anyway, I guess we can all agree that the Dolphins all had smooth wing skins, whether plywood or aluminum, and that's how the model depicts them. I can live without the inspection panels on the Rover.

Gaucho, I'm sorry if my reaction to your initial post seemed harsh. I wasn't pleased, after weeks (months, really) of careful research, to have someone come along and announce after just a quick glance at our model that we got it rather drastically wrong, and display what they describe as a "correction" that looks less like the real thing than what we did. I'll bet you wouldn't like it either if the shoe was on the other foot.

I hope that's the end of this discussion. I can't add anything further.

[gaucho_59]

I think if you check #14 above you will note that Mick told you and i quote "The vast majority of Dolphins had wooden wings with smooth, featureless top and bottom surfaces"
this aircraft was initially named Rover, bought by William E. Boeing, which ended up in CAA (forerunner of the current Federal Aviation Administration) service. Sole surviving example, painted in USCG markings



we did do very thorough research on this aircraft it is as accurate as the available information that we were able to find

I would appreciate it if you would just drop the subject.

If this whole thing was turned around you would not like to have anyone try and make out your work was flawed in any way publicly that is unless you are trying to embarrass us for what reason you would want to do this for some unknown reason.

David

No problem... I don't
think I attacked anyone...
Have a nice day...
G.

[Stratobat]

Hi Guys,

For those who may be interested, there are a couple of walkarounds and a photo gallery for the Douglas Dolphin on the Seawings website, along with a whole bunch of other floatplanes and amphibious aircraft.

https://www.seawings.co.uk/

Regards,
Stratobat