PBR Texturing: Introduction to 3D Workflow in Photoshop - Page 4
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Thread: PBR Texturing: Introduction to 3D Workflow in Photoshop

  1. #76
    Thanks Gordon. I wish I had more knowledge about the dev side. All my experience is from the painters side only. A couple other examples that show Paint vs. Metal surfaces. The paint is more of an "insulator" vs. metal which is a conductor. You can see the ability to generate amazing results. Both are my paints. Using the paint kits but I developed my own RGB Spec file from scratch. This is of course DCS and these two examples are not completely PBR yet. They use the materials but are not self reflective.



    Commercial AS/MEL & Instrument
    Certified Airplane Nut

  2. #77
    That's where we (P3d) need to go. I remember how difficult it was for me to get the hang of FSX materials, now it seems PBR is another quantum leap forward.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by 000rick000 View Post
    I agree with "G"... this is outstanding! You reminded me of "MightArrow" work with F-86 aircraft.

    Profile: https://live.warthunder.com/user/MightyArrow/

  4. #79
    TuFun, wow! That guy is really Talented!!! That is an enormous amount of work! Thanks for sharing.

    Here's a few more examples. I'm hoping that P3D will get here at minimum, and that I will be able to convert the F-100D to this standard!

    Clean:



    Vs. Airshow:




    And one that shows Clean Aluminum, Grey Paint, and Not quite Airshow polished:

    Commercial AS/MEL & Instrument
    Certified Airplane Nut

  5. #80
    The biggest difference between PBR and the Current FSX/P3D way of painting is that the diffuse map which is called an Albedo map should contain NO shadows or highlights. So if you have AO (baked shadows) layers those would be merged into the RED channel of the Materials textures. The other major difference is that RGB color hue and brightness are also used to key lighting and shadow in the sim. There's a great tutorial for painters here:

    WAR THUNDER SDK FOR PAINTERS


    Commercial AS/MEL & Instrument
    Certified Airplane Nut

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by 000rick000 View Post
    The biggest difference between PBR and the Current FSX/P3D way of painting is that the diffuse map which is called an Albedo map should contain NO shadows or highlights. So if you have AO (baked shadows) layers those would be merged into the RED channel of the Materials textures. The other major difference is that RGB color hue and brightness are also used to key lighting and shadow in the sim. There's a great tutorial for painters here:

    WAR THUNDER SDK FOR PAINTERS


    can you give a complete (short) list for converting PBR to FSX/P3D?
    I want to try it. maybe on Osprey
    many thanks
    Maryadi

  7. #82
    Next video will cover...

    My workflow for PBR basically begins with assigning the textures to the mesh components, just the same as traditional methods, but the base textures are applied to the mesh in Quixel. This creates the foundational artwork in minutes instead of hours of hand painting. The flexibility in Quixel for adjusting gloss, bump height/intensity, specular and diffuse detail is impressive.
    (The four bottom layers shown)

    This is a good place to export the flattened bitmap out for use in GMAX or 3D Studio.
    or
    Layer in the photoreal elements, in this case from my master Photoshop file for the F7F Tigercat.
    (The ten upper layers)

    The thing to bear in mind is each mesh set should only be created for a single UVW map. For instance, the panel shown here fills one full 4K texture sheet, so all of those elements are included in the mesh. Using this method, I can customize all of the various elements, in this case four, in one painting session. The flattened bitmaps will now be assigned in their corresponding slots in the materials editor i.e. diffuse, bump, spec etc. The base art can be enhanced either by hand painting in Quixel, for instance bump detailing which is absolute magic in 3D. The editing process is non destructive to the originals, so changes or errors can simply be erased and corrected.

    The challenge for most devs will be to incorporate the 4D chess game into their normal work flow. Once you integrate the logic of the process, it all makes sense. When we inevitably go to full PBR support in P3Dv5 (rumored) we will be able to use the economy of the method that Rick is showing us in his PBR work.

    Four basic Quixel layers and my detailed art layered in.




    The first four layers only. Less than five minutes from blank gray to this.

    Last edited by gman5250; September 14th, 2018 at 20:41.
    He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.
    Thomas Jefferson

    Intel Core i7-4960X 3.6GHz Ivy Bridge w/Corsair H100i Extreme Performance CPU Cooler | Asus Sabertooth X79 LGA 2011 Motherboard | CORSAIR Professional Series 1050W Mushkin Redline 16GB DDR3 | EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC2, 11G-P4-6593-KR, 11GB GDDR5X| Mushkin Chronos 240GB SSD | Western Digital Black 2TB 7200 RPM | Windows 10 HP 64-bit

  8. #83
    Gordon, the way you described it is exactly what my workflow is in the moment.
    As mentioned, for P3D/FSX, we need a post processing step that plugs the exported maps into the proper slots and define the proper material settings. Albedo becomes diffuse, AO is layered onto the diffuse via PS, specular stays, and so on. Now, the difficulty for me is that for the exported grey tones of the material textures, you need a proper combination of certain material parameters (there are many!) to make them work as intended. I tried to find a standard, or base line parameter set, to make it work. I must say that I have not succeeded with that yet. I always end up adjusting the maps themselves, which is a lot of work, at least for me.

    These aircraft shots, expecially the F-86, look fantastic, Rick.

    Cheers,
    Mark

    [Edit] : I contacted the Quixel team about that material settings issue. I'll report the results back here!
    My scenery development galleries:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x0skkam7xu8zz8r/DFwnonB1nH

    Solomon 1943 V2 Open beta download: http://www.sim-outhouse.net/download...on-1943-V2.zip
    Solomon 1943 V2 update 2013-02-05 download: http://www.sim-outhouse.net/download...2013-02-05.zip


    Current Project: DHC-4 / C-7a Caribou by Tailored Radials
    Dev-Gallery at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qjdtcoxeg...bAG-2V4Ja?dl=0

  9. #84
    How about creating a mini FS-related object, say a seat or an undercarriage assembly, with the obj file, the base flat ID, AO and normal textures (all 1024!!), a Quixel project properly set up, with one or two Quixel materials slapped on (nothing fancy), and notes on how to launder the resulting psd files into what can be put into FSX/P3D. A hands-on tutorial from A to Z, so to speak...

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by mjahn View Post
    How about creating a mini FS-related object, say a seat or an undercarriage assembly, with the obj file, the base flat ID, AO and normal textures (all 1024!!), a Quixel project properly set up, with one or two Quixel materials slapped on (nothing fancy), and notes on how to launder the resulting psd files into what can be put into FSX/P3D. A hands-on tutorial from A to Z, so to speak...
    I'll put together a basic tricycle undercarriage and fuselage frame. I have something already that will fill that requirement. I'll do a short, mesh to sim video showing a real time work flow applying the textures, exporting for FSX/P3D, plugging the textures into the materials editor in 3D Studio and processing the .mdl out to the sim. That sound good to everyone?
    He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.
    Thomas Jefferson

    Intel Core i7-4960X 3.6GHz Ivy Bridge w/Corsair H100i Extreme Performance CPU Cooler | Asus Sabertooth X79 LGA 2011 Motherboard | CORSAIR Professional Series 1050W Mushkin Redline 16GB DDR3 | EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC2, 11G-P4-6593-KR, 11GB GDDR5X| Mushkin Chronos 240GB SSD | Western Digital Black 2TB 7200 RPM | Windows 10 HP 64-bit

  11. #86

    Icon22

    Good idea ... I can make the same with SP2017.

    PS: On the HN-700 project ,I have made my study on theses parts and the VC interior.

  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by lagaffe View Post
    Good idea ... I can make the same with SP2017.

    PS: On the HN-700 project ,I have made my study on theses parts and the VC interior.

    A side by side is an excellent idea. I'm really interested in SP as well. Also love Unigine...but that's a bit out of my price range.
    He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.
    Thomas Jefferson

    Intel Core i7-4960X 3.6GHz Ivy Bridge w/Corsair H100i Extreme Performance CPU Cooler | Asus Sabertooth X79 LGA 2011 Motherboard | CORSAIR Professional Series 1050W Mushkin Redline 16GB DDR3 | EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC2, 11G-P4-6593-KR, 11GB GDDR5X| Mushkin Chronos 240GB SSD | Western Digital Black 2TB 7200 RPM | Windows 10 HP 64-bit

  13. #88
    If we are going to do a side by side evaluation of Quixel and Substance Painter, I thought it would make sense to work with both. I downloaded the evaluation package and will begin working with that, as well as Quixel to get a good comparison. This is going to be interesting.
    He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.
    Thomas Jefferson

    Intel Core i7-4960X 3.6GHz Ivy Bridge w/Corsair H100i Extreme Performance CPU Cooler | Asus Sabertooth X79 LGA 2011 Motherboard | CORSAIR Professional Series 1050W Mushkin Redline 16GB DDR3 | EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC2, 11G-P4-6593-KR, 11GB GDDR5X| Mushkin Chronos 240GB SSD | Western Digital Black 2TB 7200 RPM | Windows 10 HP 64-bit

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by gman5250 View Post
    I'll put together a basic tricycle undercarriage and fuselage frame. I have something already that will fill that requirement. I'll do a short, mesh to sim video showing a real time work flow applying the textures, exporting for FSX/P3D, plugging the textures into the materials editor in 3D Studio and processing the .mdl out to the sim. That sound good to everyone?
    That would be awesome Gordon! I'm really interested in developing but very intimidated by the 3d modeling side....as I know.nothing....well I know very little... Dabbled in Blender and managed to export a blob into P3D....LOL.
    Commercial AS/MEL & Instrument
    Certified Airplane Nut

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by gman5250 View Post
    I'll put together a basic tricycle undercarriage and fuselage frame. I have something already that will fill that requirement. I'll do a short, mesh to sim video showing a real time work flow applying the textures, exporting for FSX/P3D, plugging the textures into the materials editor in 3D Studio and processing the .mdl out to the sim. That sound good to everyone?
    That sounds great, Gordon! If I can help with anything, just holler. I'm busy with the VC 3D design of the C-7A in the moment, and sidestep into Quixel now and then to texture components. I also plan to wash the part that I'm working on (overhead console) through both Substance Painter and Quixel to be able to compare it.


    Cheers,
    Mark
    My scenery development galleries:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x0skkam7xu8zz8r/DFwnonB1nH

    Solomon 1943 V2 Open beta download: http://www.sim-outhouse.net/download...on-1943-V2.zip
    Solomon 1943 V2 update 2013-02-05 download: http://www.sim-outhouse.net/download...2013-02-05.zip


    Current Project: DHC-4 / C-7a Caribou by Tailored Radials
    Dev-Gallery at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qjdtcoxeg...bAG-2V4Ja?dl=0

  16. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by 000rick000 View Post
    That would be awesome Gordon! I'm really interested in developing but very intimidated by the 3d modeling side....as I know.nothing....well I know very little... Dabbled in Blender and managed to export a blob into P3D....LOL.
    I'm also very interested in Blender, especially when 2.8 gets released.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh29-ZgOLxY

    Witold Jaworski is a professional modeler and does very detailed aircraft models in Blender. I've been following his work on a SBD Dauntless. Although his models are to detail to be use in flight sims, but his methods from making scale plans and analyzing photos is amazing! He also has a how to book.

    Look thru this his post and see what I mean.

    http://www.military-meshes.com/forum...-SBD-Dauntless

  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by TuFun View Post
    I'm also very interested in Blender, especially when 2.8 gets released.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh29-ZgOLxY

    Witold Jaworski is a professional modeler and does very detailed aircraft models in Blender. I've been following his work on a SBD Dauntless. Although his models are to detail to be use in flight sims, but his methods from making scale plans and analyzing photos is amazing! He also has a how to book.

    Look thru this his post and see what I mean.

    http://www.military-meshes.com/forum...-SBD-Dauntless
    Vitold publish also on Blenderartist.org and the story of this creation is described in details here: https://blenderartists.org/t/sbd-dau...ber/641592/265

    The best thing in my own opinion to test theses two softwares will be to use one only and same model.
    Why not to use this model for the comparaison ? of course with the permission of Vitold.

    This SBD Dauntless can be download here: https://blenderartists.org/t/sbd-dau...ber/641592/242 - SBD-3-67.zip can be download to test and evaluation (page 242/265 Dec 2017).

  18. #93
    I think the Blender SBD model, while fabulous, would not be practical for a basic primer. The poly count and complexity would eliminate all but high end developer platforms.

    I spent the last two days with Substance Painter and come away with a perspective that I think most here will agree with. Quixel is an intuitive point and click interface for doing surface rendering quickly and in a manner that the average painter can grasp. Substance Painter is a comprehensive environment that is suitable for a journeyman level approach to PBR. It seemed quite logical to me, but then again I have over twenty five years in Photoshop, so the concepts are familiar. I can see the clear advantages of working in SP, mainly because it is gives the designer a full spectrum approach to materials design and application.

    For me, I can see that I require both Quixel and Substance Painter depending upon my needs. Right tool for the right job...so to speak.

    For the basic Quixel mesh to sim tutorial that Manfred requested, I think a simple mesh that represents the basics used by most devs should be the approach. Mark already has some assets that we have tested on the B-26K very successfully. I have all of those assets, so I'll include those with your permission Mark. You can tweak some of the areas you want to address, depending on your available time.

    That's it for now. My system is back up to full song, so I can put together the test mesh easily enough. Bear in mind that I also have a backlog that has been on hold for a few months after the computer went south.
    Last edited by gman5250; September 16th, 2018 at 20:20.
    He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.
    Thomas Jefferson

    Intel Core i7-4960X 3.6GHz Ivy Bridge w/Corsair H100i Extreme Performance CPU Cooler | Asus Sabertooth X79 LGA 2011 Motherboard | CORSAIR Professional Series 1050W Mushkin Redline 16GB DDR3 | EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC2, 11G-P4-6593-KR, 11GB GDDR5X| Mushkin Chronos 240GB SSD | Western Digital Black 2TB 7200 RPM | Windows 10 HP 64-bit

  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by gman5250 View Post
    I think the Blender SBD model, while fabulous, would not be practical for a basic primer. The poly count and complexity would eliminate all but high end developer platforms.
    Exactly, just showing how powerful Blender is for modeling. He only uses three free programs.

    http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/284363-sbd-dauntless-from-scratch/&do=findComment&comment=2893323

    It's just fascinating to me to see this done in the virtual world by talented developers such as you and many others!



  20. #95
    I've got a Quixel weekend coming up! I have to run the C-7A Caribou overhead console through the texturing process, and I'll take notes of the workflow I use. I'll post the results here when I'm done.


    Cheers,
    Mark



    My scenery development galleries:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x0skkam7xu8zz8r/DFwnonB1nH

    Solomon 1943 V2 Open beta download: http://www.sim-outhouse.net/download...on-1943-V2.zip
    Solomon 1943 V2 update 2013-02-05 download: http://www.sim-outhouse.net/download...2013-02-05.zip


    Current Project: DHC-4 / C-7a Caribou by Tailored Radials
    Dev-Gallery at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qjdtcoxeg...bAG-2V4Ja?dl=0

  21. #96
    One thing I love about PBR, is the work flow... To get the equivalent P3D with metal showing through under the chipped paint would have been extremely labor intensive with the file structure of FSX/P3D.

    This was 2 files in game and a 3rd PSD I use just to keep things separated in case I make a mistake I can't walk back! Lol. Obviously it's a little different just painting with the kit compared to the developer stuff. But even this is superior.




    Commercial AS/MEL & Instrument
    Certified Airplane Nut

  22. #97
    Rick, that looks great with PBR! I hope P3Dv5 will have self reflections. PBR sure makes a difference as seen here.

    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/ry5zG

  23. #98
    Update and what I feel is an important question.

    I'm working on the 101 Mesh to Sim Tutorial that will show how to take mesh from Gmax/Studio into Quixel, and out to the sim. That will be ready this weekend.


    Here's the question.

    In light of the release of the NVIDIA RTX 2080 TI card, and the much touted raytracing capabilities, do we want to expand this conversation to raytracing/PBR and the future of flight sim?

    I spent quite a bit of time down the rabbit hole, analyzing the 2080 and came to the realization that this card is the first step to integrating full raytracing rendering into simulated games and flight simulators. This is going to be an incremental process, but we will eventually be at a place where graphics and modeling as we know it are going to be completely re-written. The conversation about PBR cannot be conducted without moving into raytracing as well.


    Your thoughts?
    He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.
    Thomas Jefferson

    Intel Core i7-4960X 3.6GHz Ivy Bridge w/Corsair H100i Extreme Performance CPU Cooler | Asus Sabertooth X79 LGA 2011 Motherboard | CORSAIR Professional Series 1050W Mushkin Redline 16GB DDR3 | EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC2, 11G-P4-6593-KR, 11GB GDDR5X| Mushkin Chronos 240GB SSD | Western Digital Black 2TB 7200 RPM | Windows 10 HP 64-bit

  24. #99
    Get tutorial 101 out first, Gordon! You're in danger of burying that trying to cover all possible bases. The bleeding edge is still in the future and I'd like to know how 101 works now, since we can use that now.
    Tom
    __________________________________________________ ___________________________________________
    Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding. Proverbs 4:7

  25. #100
    Here's an example that was posted today about Real-time Ray-tracing which will be used in the 3Dmark Dandia.

    Amazing! Fingers crossed for P3Dv5!

    https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/3d...ing-video.html

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