HALO Device

[Panther_99FS]

Looks like it did its job!

[Roxane-21]

I am not sure of that... The part of the HALO which has been hit is far in front of the pilot's head (see picture below), and Alonso's car was moving forward. On your picture you can see that the thin aero device on top of the HALO is not even broken. Even without the HALO Leclerc's head wouldn't have been hit.

[stansdds]

Yikes!!!!!!

[wombat666]

Roxane-21, you're 99.99% correct.
Alonso's car was moving forward and the widget on the leading edge of the HALO was not broken.
Looking over the replays I have on my HD it might have been close but close is all it was.
I'm rather bemused by the penalty handed out to Hulkenberg as he was fully locked up and Riccardo was another unjustly penalised as he was definitely punted into the back of the Ferrari.
Much as I love Spa I think time has come for the start to be moved around turn 1, as the continued stupidity of drivers attempting to 'win' at the first corner makes this type of incident a given.

[Roxane-21]

Roxane-21, you're 99.99% correct.
Alonso's car was moving forward and the widget on the leading edge of the HALO was not broken.
Looking over the replays I have on my HD it might have been close but close is all it was.
I'm rather bemused by the penalty handed out to Hulkenberg as he was fully locked up and Riccardo was another unjustly penalised as he was definitely punted into the back of the Ferrari.
Much as I love Spa I think time has come for the start to be moved around turn 1, as the continued stupidity of drivers attempting to 'win' at the first corner makes this type of incident a given.

What are the 0.01% I got wrong?

Ricciardo was not penalized for this incident. Bottas was penalized because he rammed into Sirotkin's back just before turn 1.

If you think they should move Spa's start position after the hairpin (as it was until 1983) to avoid crashes at the start, what about Mosport's last turn?

[jamminjames]

How can you miss your braking point that far?

[Panther_99FS]

Bunch of armchair experts here!

[Roxane-21]

Bunch of armchair experts here!

Being an engineer helps figuring out simple technical things.

[wombat666]

Duh!
I misread the reason for Riccardo starting at the back of the grid for Monza.
Mosport is only a minor league circuit Roxie but I concur with your observation.
An I never award 100% right, ever.

[huub vink]

What are the 0.01% I got wrong? ............

I think its the 0.01% that damaged Leclerc's HALO . Alonso's car might move forward, but there is a thing called gravity as well, so most probably the car moved downwards simultaneously. Based on the damage to the HALO s the bottom of Alonso's can obviously hit it and most likely bumped off. When the HALO wouldn't have been there the result could have been quite different.

I know there is a "probably", "a most likely" and a "could have" in my post, but I'm absolutely sure about the gravity......

Cheers,
Huub

[wombat666]

Bunch of armchair experts here!

Been there and done that.
Open face helmet and not very much of a roll bar either!
I walked away but the car was pretty rooted.
Calder Raceway, 1970...........

[Panther_99FS]

Being an engineer helps figuring out simple technical things.

Do you think the HALO device is an overall waste of time and money?

[Panther_99FS]

Been there and done that.
Open face helmet and not very much of a roll bar either!
I walked away but the car was pretty rooted.
Calder Raceway, 1970...........

Yikes!!!....

[Roxane-21]

Do you think the HALO device is an overall waste of time and money?

No. It has been designed to prevent a wheel or another car from hitting the pilot's head, and it already proved to be useful and efficient in that way. I don't like it because it is ugly, but safety devices are often ugly.

But in this case (Alonso/Leclerc accident) it didn't have to prevent anything since Alonso's car wouldn't have hit Leclerc's head anyway.

[Panther_99FS]

No. It has been designed to prevent a wheel or another car from hitting the pilot's head, and it already proved to be useful and efficient in that way. I don't like it because it is ugly, but safety devices are often ugly.

But in this case (Alonso/Leclerc accident) it didn't have to prevent anything since Alonso's car wouldn't have hit Leclerc's head anyway.

But the HALO device did do its job in this case in that it prevented 'something' from hitting LeClerc's head....since nowhere in this thread did I specifically state Alonso's car...

Or am I incorrect?

[Roxane-21]

But the HALO device did do its job in this case in that it prevented 'something' from hitting LeClerc's head....since nowhere in this thread did I specifically state Alonso's car...

Or am I incorrect?

If you are thinking about Alonso's right-front tyre, it would have passed at least 40 or 50cm in front of Leclerc's helmet. So no, even without the HALO nothing would have hit his head.

[Panther_99FS]

If you are thinking about Alonso's right-front tyre, it would have passed at least 40 or 50cm in front of Leclerc's helmet. So no, even without the HALO nothing would have hit his head.

I'm not thinking anything specifically....but something hit it......
What it was, I don't know....

[Roxane-21]

I'm not thinking anything specifically....but something hit it......
What it was, I don't know....

Something hit the halo, indeed, but this doesn't mean the same 'something' would have hit Leclerc's head...

Again, I am not saying the HALO is useless. I am only saying it didn't save Leclerc's life in that nothing would have hit his head anyway.

[wombat666]

If Leclerc followed rule 101 for an open wheel driver (or any other driver in truth) when the first big bang happens and everything goes quiet one tucks one's extremities into a tight ball and waits for the sound to return!
Rather like the returning to the womb.

[Panther_99FS]

Something hit the halo, indeed, but this doesn't mean the same 'something' would have hit Leclerc's head...

Again, I am not saying the HALO is useless. I am only saying it didn't save Leclerc's life in that nothing would have hit his head anyway.

Point taken: That is, we don't know if that something would or would not have hit LeClerc's head....Also note that I said "it did its job", again nowhere in the thread did I mention saving life....

[Roxane-21]

Also note that I said "it did its job", again nowhere in the thread did I mention saving life....

The HALO was introduced in order to save lives. Therefore its 'job' is to save lives, and if there was no threatened life to save it didn't do its job since it hadn't to.

More seriously, even if it was by a wheel or a whole car, Leclerc's HALO has been hit and did not collapse. This alone is a kind of achievement.

[Panther_99FS]

The HALO was introduced in order to save lives. .

Check this out then:
http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/20...oduced-f1-2018

The decision was based on Halo presenting "the best overall safety performance" according to the FIA's five years of research into increased frontal head protection.

So as you were saying?

[Roxane-21]

Frontal head protection is important TO SAVE LIVES. See what happened to Henry Surtees and Justin Wilson (to name a few). I am not mentioning Jules Bianchi since in that case even the HALO would have collapse.

Once again, since nothing would have hit his head anyway, Charles Leclerc didn't need protection in that case and he would not have been hurt with or without the HALO.

[wombat666]

How about we (all) agree to disagree.

[Roxane-21]

How about we (all) agree to disagree.

Or maybe I should just stop arguing with people over 50. I have to do so every day at work, and it is just a PIA. Even if you show them factual and/or numerical facts as a proof they will never change their mind. Last month I spent one week (8 hours a day, 5 days a week) trying to show an elder colleague what he was planning to do was unrealistic and would lead to a disaster. He never listened to me, did things as he wanted to, and of course the anticipated disaster occured...