DC Designs Northrop P-61C Black Widow RELEASED

[Seahawk72s]

Ummm, Where are you seeing this?? heres what i released this morning..

Hi,
Open the aircraft.cfg, at the top of the page. See screen shot.

Also from a remark made by falcon409, message # 126, where he notes a wrong texture location.
"NOTE: the texture name for "texture.791" has changed to "texture.Baremetal". Make that change to your texture folder or the Sim won't display that airplane, lol"

I think this might indicate that an older aircraft.cfg was being used and not the release version.

[Seahawk72s]

Waiting for the paint kit and the texture "pros" to start their magic.

[warchild]

Hey Ed??
I dont mean any offense but when was the last time you calibrated your joystick/yoke??

[warchild]

Hi,
Open the aircraft.cfg, at the top of the page. See screen shot.

Also from a remark made by falcon409, message # 126, where he notes a wrong texture location.
"NOTE: the texture name for "texture.791" has changed to "texture.Baremetal". Make that change to your texture folder or the Sim won't display that airplane, lol"

I think this might indicate that an older aircraft.cfg was being used and not the release version.

OHHHHH.. No.. That was a notation by Dean. When he started on the P-61C he used the fde from the RF-61 as a starting point. I yanked the guts out of it leaving only the flightsim and camera entries, and put in the FDE from roberts plane. THATS why it says May 2018. Thats when he started on the P-61C. I just havent changed it because its just a notation and serves no purpose..

[warchild]

Waiting for the paint kit and the texture "pros" to start their magic.

Pssssst.. she wore red ::LOL:: Great paint job thank hyou..



I can only theorize that this was the inspiration for the plane and the nose art..

[SH427]

once the kit arrives I have a handful of "B" nosearts I want to throw on and, of course, one for my personal plane, which I make for every A/C once I take a liking to it

[Dev One]

This is supposed to have quoted you.. ::sigh:: Just one more weird anomoly to deal with today..
Anywayyyy..
I can see why you made changes too things like the minimum throttle. You see, As I was telling Falcon409, those props weigh upwwards of a thousand pounds each. When you set the MOI to 35 slug pounds of force, you gave them all the weight of a cessna's prop. The engine actually has more friction on the shaft than that prop can develop, and thats why your engine dies. Your using a butterfly to pull a freight train so to speak. Now, an MOI of 135 Slugs is what is correct for the P-61B which still uses a Hamilton Standard electric prop, but its a normal prop. The props on the P-61C are paddle props and almost a full foot wider at the apex. They weigh far more than the P-61bs and require a lot more effort to overcome their inertia. What your doing has set you on a course that will at some point end up in disaster.. Trust me. I'm an expert at blindly creating disasters.. Setting the prop moi back ti 135 should give you an rpm oif 800 for idle. If it doesnt ( which I still think may be accel or SP2 related ) then go to the [Piston Engine] section, and increase the Idle mechanical efficiency. That should at least get you running.
And if this browsers weirdness ever goes away I'll be able to post quotes and converse more directly with you..

Yes I understand Pam, but it seems that reducing the MoI is the only way I know to make the prop slow down more quickly, having said that maybe the 0.689 efficiency scalar might have an effect corelated with values in table 509? - Something else to try. I might also light up my old 'puter & try it in FSXA which I assume Falcon is using as opposed to me using SP2.

Seems rudder authority needs a bit of tweaking with others not able to cope with a crosswind.

Interesting...... ain't it - & not only with Rowan & Martin!
Regards
Keith

[Seahawk72s]

OHHHHH.. No.. That was a notation by Dean. When he started on the P-61C he used the fde from the RF-61 as a starting point. I yanked the guts out of it leaving only the flightsim and camera entries, and put in the FDE from roberts plane. THATS why it says May 2018. Thats when he started on the P-61C. I just havent changed it because its just a notation and serves no purpose..

Except for the fact that the sim entry is wrong...

[warchild]

Except for the fact that the sim entry is wrong...

Where??? The very top where it says may?? Everything else on that page is correct.
So, the creator of the model, decides to notate this as an rf-61C in and FDE i spent thousands of hours working on ( about 5.5 actual years ) and you wanna bust my chops for it.. You dont like it, change it to something else. Simple as that. You know why i only worked on the fde 5 years and it took 8 years to get it too you?? Its because i got tired of the absolute bullhocky like this that was happening and I left simming. I'm sorry the notation is wrong. Tell Dean.. I'm sorry the XB-35 wasnt finished. Find someone whose good with MCX and Gauges, I'm not. I go the mile and more for all of you on a daily basis because i really DO care about this community. Give me a flippin break..

[falcon409]

I guess at this point a full setup description is in order:

I have been using FSX/Accel for all but one flight (I also have P3D_V4.2 but rarely fly it).
I have a CH Pro Throttle with one control so I do not have the ability to regulate individual engine settings (dual throttles)
I have a fairly new Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick with twist grip (the normal throttle tab on that is mapped to Prop Axis)

Both controllers were calibrated a few days ago after I woke one morning to discover that both controllers had lost all the mapping and had been reset to default (a PITA).

I always fly with realism settings "middle of the road". Crash detection off, Engine damage off, Aircraft stress off, automixture on, gyro drift off, unlimited fuel off and so on and so forth. However for this airplane I turned all damage and stress settings on and did my level best to fly with the intent of making it home alive.

I also have a weather program (FSRealWX_Pro) which I rarely use and several REX Programs. . .also rarely used. So in fact, whenever I fly on a normal basis I have "0" wind so that is a non-factor related to the inability to control the airplane during taxi (above 15kts) or take off roll.

I do have now and actually have from the start, had a sound running in the VC with engines off, reminiscent of an old car I had as a kid that wouldn't shut off after I had removed the key. . .something we referred to as "dieseling". It's not heard from the exterior. . .only in the VC.

I think that about covers everything.

[Seahawk72s]

Pssssst.. she wore red ::LOL:: Great paint job thank hyou..



I can only theorize that this was the inspiration for the plane and the nose art..

Realizing that Lady in the Dark was a P-61B, I am going with a blue figurine.
There are quite a few professional models out there with this paint scheme.
I was reading an account last night be a modeler who was lucky enough to see an actual color
film of LITD. He said by the end of the film all he could say was, its blue, she's blue....lol

[warchild]

Yes I understand Pam, but it seems that reducing the MoI is the only way I know to make the prop slow down more quickly, having said that maybe the 0.689 efficiency scalar might have an effect corelated with values in table 509? - Something else to try. I might also light up my old 'puter & try it in FSXA which I assume Falcon is using as opposed to me using SP2.

Seems rudder authority needs a bit of tweaking with others not able to cope with a crosswind.

Interesting...... ain't it - & not only with Rowan & Martin!
Regards
Keith

YAYYY.. Its posting quotes..

Just remember it's not going to have a lot of rudder. thats because most of the mass is carried by the booms which are something like 24 feet apart or so ( blatant guess ). it was designed that way specifically to stabilize its yaw, because its much harder to tip a block than it is a stick. Still, your correct. There is far too little rudder authority at the moment ( i cant even do a half arsed hammerhead ). Let me know how it goes. After my outburst towards Seahawk, I'm gonna take a day or so to chill and get my perspective back..

[warchild]

Realizing that Lady in the Dark was a P-61B, I am going with a blue figurine.
There are quite a few professional models out there with this paint scheme.
I was reading an account last night be a modeler who was lucky enough to see an actual color
film of LITD. He said by the end of the film all he could say was, its blue, she's blue....lol

Yeahh, It looks good in blue. It's always been a debate whether she wore red or blue and its been a debate in circles we cant even think of belonging too.. Personally, I still believe Ginger Rogers was the original Lady in the Dark, and she wore red, but really, whether it was red or blue is down to a matter of personal taste now as everyone involved is passed, and they never said either; taking a rather mischievous bit of humor over it..

[warchild]

Realizing that Lady in the Dark was a P-61B, I am going with a blue figurine.
There are quite a few professional models out there with this paint scheme.
I was reading an account last night be a modeler who was lucky enough to see an actual color
film of LITD. He said by the end of the film all he could say was, its blue, she's blue....lol

Hey.. I found something for you and your grandchildren.. Keep it safe..



It's Blue. She's Blue

[warchild]

I guess at this point a full setup description is in order:

I have been using FSX/Accel for all but one flight (I also have P3D_V4.2 but rarely fly it).
I have a CH Pro Throttle with one control so I do not have the ability to regulate individual engine settings (dual throttles)
I have a fairly new Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick with twist grip (the normal throttle tab on that is mapped to Prop Axis)

Both controllers were calibrated a few days ago after I woke one morning to discover that both controllers had lost all the mapping and had been reset to default (a PITA).

I always fly with realism settings "middle of the road". Crash detection off, Engine damage off, Aircraft stress off, automixture on, gyro drift off, unlimited fuel off and so on and so forth. However for this airplane I turned all damage and stress settings on and did my level best to fly with the intent of making it home alive.

I also have a weather program (FSRealWX_Pro) which I rarely use and several REX Programs. . .also rarely used. So in fact, whenever I fly on a normal basis I have "0" wind so that is a non-factor related to the inability to control the airplane during taxi (above 15kts) or take off roll.

I do have now and actually have from the start, had a sound running in the VC with engines off, reminiscent of an old car I had as a kid that wouldn't shut off after I had removed the key. . .something we referred to as "dieseling". It's not heard from the exterior. . .only in the VC.

I think that about covers everything.

The sound in the VC is the fuel pump. If you turn on the booster pumps, the sound changes but never actually goes away until the engines are started. its kind of like the pumps ran dry and are sucking air.

I can sympathize with a complete controller reconfig, and these days, with the X-65 iii climb in a plane and its basically re-calibrate the joystick..
Let me drop down to a single throttle and see what happens. that kinda tweaked a bone when you mentioned that so i want to investigate a bit more..

[falcon409]

Pam, I just flew from Bill Womack's Nantucket (beautiful job) in P3D_V4.2. . .results:

Taxied straight as an arrow up to 32kts, basically hands off. Turns were normal nosewheel types up to 20kts, thereafter a bit of braking put her into a smooth turn when needed. Takeoff roll was uneventful, only a very slight rudder correction for normal torque and up and away she went. Perfect in P3D_V4.2!!

This was with the updated files you posted this morning. What does that tell you. . .if anything?

[simtech]

Pam, Dean and others..I'm using FSX-A flying with the original d/l with realism set at about 80% P-factor, General, etc. Only changes have been the backslash comments. I have experienced no "giggly props", jumping jacks, or herding towards the south pasture. Once lined up on the taxiway, I can taxi 40 kts, 45"MP and the aircraft will track with no rudder input. The rudimentary autopilot using FSX built in, will hold hdg, and altitude as expected. Nothing fancy. As far as FSX-A goes, I have no performance issues with this iteration. Pam explained these gremlins in posts 60 and 109. As with what Ed experienced about the 25-30 cyclic hum (sound) with power, battery and all other switches off, yes, I, too, hear that consistently from the VC. Otherwise, a fine airplane I'm looking forward to spending many hours with. I hope that the issues other versions of this sim experience can be rectified as I trust this beast will be a classic.

[warchild]

Pam, I just flew from Bill Womack's Nantucket (beautiful job) in P3D_V4.2. . .results:

Taxied straight as an arrow up to 32kts, basically hands off. Turns were normal nosewheel types up to 20kts, thereafter a bit of braking put her into a smooth turn when needed. Takeoff roll was uneventful, only a very slight rudder correction for normal torque and up and away she went. Perfect in P3D_V4.2!!

This was with the updated files you posted this morning. What does that tell you. . .if anything?

It perfectly reflects my own initial experience, though mine was in P3Dv4. And then when you go into fsx, that very same fde turns into a monster. Just sent you a PM. Its for FSX..
My suspicion however I've been cautious about sharing because a lot of people wouldnt like it. The problem isnt with the plane directly, but rather its with the way the specific version of FSX interprets the data. ( i.e. SP2 is nearly ten years old now. Accel is nearly ten years old nowTheres problems that pop up in accel that SP2 never sees and vice versa. and then theres SE ). Now, the only thing all of these versions have in common is that they ARE ALL BASED ON ms esp, which was designed to assist efficiency experts design offices and factory floors and set up the actual workflow within the buildings.
However, I started poking around esp towards the beginning of 2009 ( about when i started to get cocky, and somewhat good ) and I discovered some non documented ( for fsx ) abilities it had and started making use of them. Some of those featuures still exist in fsx and p3d, only we no longer know if the sim is interpreting the data and executing some of those undocumented features or not. It would appear like something weird and unexplainable happened for the better, or worse..
The fact that you and I can fly it in P3D simply proves we can fly it in P3D. Meanwhile, unless the version I just sent you magically works, FSX is still broken and i havent got a single lead.. But we'll figure it out..
Pam

[warchild]

Pam, Dean and others..I'm using FSX-A flying with the original d/l with realism set at about 80% P-factor, General, etc. Only changes have been the backslash comments. I have experienced no "giggly props", jumping jacks, or herding towards the south pasture. Once lined up on the taxiway, I can taxi 40 kts, 45"MP and the aircraft will track with no rudder input. The rudimentary autopilot using FSX built in, will hold hdg, and altitude as expected. Nothing fancy. As far as FSX-A goes, I have no performance issues with this iteration. Pam explained these gremlins in posts 60 and 109. As with what Ed experienced about the 25-30 cyclic hum (sound) with power, battery and all other switches off, yes, I, too, hear that consistently from the VC. Otherwise, a fine airplane I'm looking forward to spending many hours with. I hope that the issues other versions of this sim experience can be rectified as I trust this beast will be a classic.

I will find a way to fix it. I promise ..

[falcon409]

Pam, in FSX/Accel. . .after your PM:

Seemed to initially taxi better up to and beyond 20kts, but then the pull set in again. What I did discover (as if there isn't enough weirdness already) was that after a left turn onto the rwy instead of still pulling to the left it wanted to go right. . .then at the turnoff (I decided at this point to just taxi around the airport for awhile) I turned right and it started pulling to the left. I continued that scenario around the airport rws and taxiways and in every case a hard turn in one direction caused the airplane to want to pull to the opposite.

How's that for a "What the Hell" moment? lol

NOTE: For those thinking I should recalibrate. . .it only happens in FSX and it only happens with this airplane. I can load any other. . .payware, freeware, Native FSX or portover. . .they all taxi and fly perfectly. Plus, as mentioned a few posts ago, in P3D_V4.2 it flies perfectly and I recalibrated both controllers about an hour or so ago.

[warchild]

Pam, in FSX/Accel. . .after your PM:

Seemed to initially taxi better up to and beyond 20kts, but then the pull set in again. What I did discover (as if there isn't enough weirdness already) was that after a left turn onto the rwy instead of still pulling to the left it wanted to go right. . .then at the turnoff (I decided at this point to just taxi around the airport for awhile) I turned right and it started pulling to the left. I continued that scenario around the airport rws and taxiways and in every case a hard turn in one direction caused the airplane to want to pull to the opposite.

How's that for a "What the Hell" moment? lol

NOTE: For those thinking I should recalibrate. . .it only happens in FSX and it only happens with this airplane. I can load any other. . .payware, freeware, Native FSX or portover. . .they all taxi and fly perfectly. Plus, as mentioned a few posts ago, in P3D_V4.2 it flies perfectly and I recalibrated both controllers about an hour or so ago.

The harder i turn left to stay on the runway, the harder it pulls right. The harder i turn right to keep it on the runway, the harder it pulls left.
If this were yesterday, I'd be calling for dean to fix the code becsause this is certsainly something in the way the yoke compiled, BUT, That fde is the one i've used since godawful early this morning, and it works perfectly and much to my amazement, on my fsx:SE. But will it work after I reboot?? Who knows??? I'm not saying the compile is off the hook yet, but the fact mines working and the same exact copy doesnt work on your machine, certainly puts a damper on the compile theory.
Yeahhh, the same exact copy, uploaded to dropbox. The only major differences here are fsx SE and FSX SP2.
Damn my memory. Damn it o hell.. Someone above just mentioned it works perfectly on accelleration. Was accel pre or post sp2??
It's not that FSX is dearly loved, even though it is, amd its not that FSX is familiar and comfortable, even though it is. It's that P3D is black, and its layout is more like a parts catalog than a friendly kiosk, and it almost insists on loading the aircraft first instead of letting you create your scenario from a blanck slate in the opening kiosk. I dont know about anyone else, but I remember when in fsx if you changed aircraft once one was loaded, the aircraft you changed too retained some of the previous aircrafts traits. Try changing from a cessna to a yf-23 and see how well it handles regardless of who created it. That was the old FSX. P3D is about as friendly as a dentist. Just open up and say ahhhh. This'll hurt a little bit.. Uh huh.. So I cant recommend you migrate to P3D, and yet, it works. FSX SE, seems to work, and its reported FSX: Acceleration works. I will keep plugging away, but it's looking a bit like its a version problem, but only a bit. I'm still lost and reaching for straws hoping to find a little wisdom here..
Pam

[falcon409]

Pam, for my part, as long as I can get it to the end of the runway I'm good. . .after that I can drag it into the air and then it flies like a champ!! I just updated my P3D to V4.3 and that's where I'll do most of my Blackwidow flying unless I need to test something in FSX.

[warchild]

Pam, for my part, as long as I can get it to the end of the runway I'm good. . .after that I can drag it into the air and then it flies like a champ!! I just updated my P3D to V4.3 and that's where I'll do most of my Blackwidow flying unless I need to test something in FSX.

Ok Ed. Sounds good. I think youll enjoy 4.3. It was a bit of a headache installing it, but it works pretty well and as I joke with Mark, it looks more like FSX than FSX.. you might want to consider envtex and envshade. they go a long way to enhancing immersion..

[MrZippy]

Just to re-iterate, all is well in FSX SP2. Taxi, takeoff, flying, slowing for a landing, CRASHING...dammit, if I pay attention, then landing is fine also.

[warchild]

Welllll, to be honest, I'm not completely happy. The near identiczal twin of this FDE for Roberts P-61B runs fine on all platforms. Ironically, it was developed on FSX: Acceleration. Theres a lot of things that have popped up the last couple days that I dont understand, or do not have the capacity to understand any longer. Falcon409's issues being one of them. Why does it worrk on my machine and not his?? Why would the P-61B's fde work on any machine and the P-61C's wont. Do I need to go back to using FSX for development and port it up to P3D?? I made something I was incredibly proud of. The very best FDE I had ever made, and in less that a day i've been made to feel like a complete failure who produces nothing but manure. I feel that I failed everyone, but especially, myself. Its a hard pill to swallow..