Carrier Landing Basics

[Willy]

As for straight decks, I found an AI for USS Saratoga CV-3. Just looking at the textures, it appears to be Paul Clawson's old static one from FS9 that someone has reworked the model. I'm hoping it will work out as advertised as the Lexington and Yorktown class pre-war CVs have always been favorites of mine.

[delta_lima]

Hey Willy - I don't think you will get anywhere with the ugly old stationary carrier off of S.F. Bay. It is just a scenery bgl and the "built in" launch and trap functionality you get with FSX - and not with FS9 - I think will only work with a ship model that is a simobject i.e., not too different from an AI aircraft. We really need you set up with AI carriers, then you will see the world is your oyster, as you can spawn a single cv or carrier group anywhere in the world - and they all move! As a warbird fan you will find a good choice of WW II straight deck Essex and other boats to practice on. Happy trapping!

Thanks Ex. I assumed he was still using arrcab off that one. If not, that’s why he neither launch nor recover. Yeah Willy - forget those ugly statics. There’s a couple of nice Essex boats here, both wartime and Korean War era. That will get you rolling nicely.

Re catapults, yes some launches were sans catapult-chiefly off smaller class carriers like the Independence class that didn’t have them. But cats were in use on the bigger Essex class carriers, as seen here:

https://youtu.be/Fx7Gto1zrrg

[Daube]

Fortunately the installation of AICarriers (the .NET one) is quite easy. Just install it with an easy destination path, like c:\AICarriers, for example.
This will make it easier to add in the EXE.xml file later

By default, AICarriers will allow you to manipulate the default FSX carrier. The interface looks the same as the ATC window, excepted you get choices of boats to appear. And once you selected a boat, it asks for location (current position of your plane, 5 nm ahead, 10 mm ahead etc...).
Once the boat appears, you get different choices, to make it move (forward, stop, turn right/left 10 degres, turn right/left 90 degres...)
Very easy to understand. I love that program.

[Willy]

Ok, I'm stumped. I know about as much about xml as my dog, Sassy. It's supposed to work with SE, correct?

Added the AI Carriers folder with the path c:\AI Carriers. Seems to be all nestled in and at home there. In the folder with the with FSX.cfg file was an exe.xml file and I added the sample exe lines from the AI Carriers folder as follows:

<SimBase.Document Type="Launch" version="1,0">
<Descr>Launch</Descr>
<Filename>exe.xml</Filename>
<Disabled>False</Disabled>
<Launch.ManualLoad>False</Launch.ManualLoad>
<Launch.Addon>
<Name>AICarriers</Name>
<Disabled>False</Disabled>
<ManualLoad>False</ManualLoad>
<Path>c:AI Carriers</Path>
</Launch.Addon>
</SimBase.Document>

There was a previous entry in the .xml for something else and I added the AI Carriers bit with a line space in between.

Started up FSX SE, went to a saved flight with the SBD off the coast of San Francisco. In the drop down menu of FS under add ons , there's only FSUIPC. Tried the shift J thing from the readme, still no joy. The only thing I can think of would be having to totally restart the comp which I haven't tried yet.

[Daube]

Your path is incomplete: the full value should be C:\AICarriers\AICarriers.exe

[Butcherbird17]

+1 on what Daube posted. It's the first thing I noticed.

Joe

[expat]

Willy, also be sure the straight deck boats you download are all native FSX models otherwise they won't work. Lazarus here kindly did some of CG Shipyards Essex boats (Valley Forge, Boxer) + there is a very good WWII scheme CV-9 USS Essex - all here in the Library. Search under "FSX ships."

[Willy]

Thanks guys! I guess as my Social Security starts this month, I'm allowed a senior moment or six. Off to make the changes.


I haven't added any carriers yet. One thing at a time.

[Willy]

Still no joy. Just to make sure I'm not doing it wrong, I've started up FS, went to a saved flight with the SBD off the coast and clicked on the add on's part of the menu across the top of the screen. The only thing showing in the drop down is FSUIPC. There was mention in the Read Me about hitting shift-j. No joy there either.

Okay, if a picture is worth a thousand words, here's what I'm looking at..

[Willy]

Woo! Hoo! Progress!!!

Ok, I've got it working somewhat I think. I can get the ships to show up, but they're not moving. And the SBD does come to a full stop when a wire is caught although from the VC it looks like I'm going to nose over while stopping.

[PhantomTweak]

I can get the ships to show up, but they're not moving.

I am presuming you placed the ship with AICarriers. Hit SHFT+J, read the menu choices, selected one, and then chose where from the next menu to pop. All correct so far?
Now, to make it go, hit SHFT+J again. "Go forward" is choice #1, right at the top. Can't miss it. Well, I could, but my vision is getting a little worse.
Anywho...

Holy cats, that's the shortest post I ever made, I think.
Does this help at all?
Pat☺

PS: I won't go into not adding ships to the original aicarriers.cfg file here and now. It's a subject that deserves it's own entire post...

[delta_lima]

Woo! Hoo! Progress!!!

Ok, I've got it working somewhat I think. I can get the ships to show up, but they're not moving. And the SBD does come to a full stop when a wire is caught although from the VC it looks like I'm going to nose over while stopping.

Progress indeed. Awesome.

When you launch AI carriers, which it looks like you've done, the carriers are stationary. You have to tell that ship (or formation, more on that later) to either move forward, full stop, turn stbd, turn port, stop, or be removed. See here: http://nikkiwaif.tripod.com/index-2.html

So you should see a new dropdown menu on your menu bar to bring these up. I use the standard Shift U to bring it up. So bring up the menu, select "forward" - your ship will now move forward. Make sure you're pointed away from shore, and/or the right course, because it won't steer away from anything, including other AI or other stationary objects/terrain, etc.

As mentioned, you can make some course corrections by incrementally steering your boat (or formation) port/starboard. You can also stop (heave to?) the formation if you want for whatever reason. If you want to switch ships, you can select "delete" and pick a different ship/formation.

I mention formation - each entry in the aircarriers.cfg, tells AICarriers which ships to spawn when that particular ship is selected. So in time, you may want to consider building a little fleet for a given period/formation. And that includes AI helis on plane guard station. FSX/AICarriers treats these as a "boat" - that's the folder they live in. They "sail" along at the same 25kt speed, just a 150' or so in the air. You can designate where in relation to the middle of the first carrier's position you want it. I usually have it off to port, abeam of the island superstructure. But you can place it wherever.

Beyond that, you can build an entire carrier air group, comprising AI frigates, destroyers, supply oilers, and even semi-submerged subs that you can add for realism. I've got roughly a dozen core formations that form the carrier group "venues" for my carrier flying - WWII, Korea RN, Korea USN, 50s RN, 50s RCN, 60s RN, 60s USN, 60s French Aeronavale, 70s Aeronavale, 80s USN. But the sky (the sea?) is the limit for how many you can have. Most of the escort vessels with helo pads are landable, so you could go do aerial resupply back and forth between carriers and/or escorts with pads, if helos are your thing.

By now, there's good AI boats to build make up the vast majority of accurate carrier groups for the above and even other navies. It's like a train hobby - little details to help build immersion, lots of fun placing and tweaking them as required.

[expat]

Great, clear summary D_L. Willy keep us all posted on your progress. b/t/w - for me Shift +J has always called up the AI Carriers menu.

[Willy]

It'll probably be tomorrow before I can get back to it. Real life stuff again. Sigh...

[PhantomTweak]

Speaking of formations, and adding to the AICarriers.cfg (I knew this would show up!), if I may offer a word of advice: DON'T.
This is what the conf.d folder is all about.

I have mine set up with a subfolder in the conf.d folder, holding all the AiC config files. The files that define the various ships and formations I have downloaded over the years, and there's a LOT of them. If I were to add them all to the AICarriers.cfg file, I would have 100 pages (or more!) in the SHFT+J menu to search through to find what I want that flight. Instead, I keep them all in the subfolder, easy to find. When I want ship X, and the formation(s) it's in, I just copy it's .cfg file into the conf.d folder.
That way, when I start AICarriers I have 2 or 3 pages to the menu, and what I want is easy to find in them. When I want a different set of ships, or formations, I just delete the file in the conf.d folder and copy a different one into it.
I can also make my own .cfg files, combining various ships into new formations to suit me. I save them in the subfolder, and break them out whenever I like.

What I'm saying is to keep the AICarriers.cfg file "virgin", or as it came in the original download you installed. When you want to add a ship, or formation of ships, put a .cfg file in the conf.d folder. when you want something else either move or delete the .cfg file you have in the conf.d folder, and put another one in.
The only change I made to the aicarriers.cfg file was to change the default carrier to Javier's Nimitz V2. Not ALL the versions, just one, solo, ship I can use for CQ's when I desire. It's my first choice under the SHFT+J menu. Easy peasy.

Good luck!
Pat☺

[Mike71]

Umm the Dauntless would never have had a launchbar and was never catapulted.
In WWII there were no aircraft than needed a catapult unless they were on a battleship..and no Dauntless was ever carried there that I know of.
You just need a straight deck carrier and about 15 - 20 kts of headway or 25-30 kts of wind over the bow.

First, the SBD as well as other tactical WWII carrier planes could be catapulted. They seldom were unless necessary, because the process really slowed down the launch process.

No WWII Navy planes had launch bars - that came much later with flush deck nose tow catapults. As I recall, the A-6A, A-7A and E-2A were the first to have launch bars.

Before that, a wire cable and a frangible holdback plug were used. This was known as a bridle launching system. As steam cats came into use, a bridle retrieval system was incorporated so that bridles did not have to be tossed into the sea as a plane was launched. The system was commonly referred to as the "Van Zelm" after the company that developed it. The cost common noticeable feature was the inclined "tongue" or "boom" at the end of the cat. It was used to take the impact of the bridle slamming down as it came to a halt.

[Craig Taylor]

A handy list of the default moving carriers in FSX can be found here, listing the date/time groups for the departure and arrival locations in FSX. You just need to pick a suitable location to fly from to intercept the carrier group on its route, and set your date/time to match when it is supposed to be in that vicinity. These are great for multiplayer.

Warbirdsim's 'Mustang Tales' comes with a WWII-era Essex class the plies its trade inside the lower part of the Chesapeake. You can try your hand at a carrier-ready Mustang, or any other suitable era bird for that matter. Comes with a working catapult as well as arresting wires. Great fun with the VS F9F a'la "Bridges at Toko Ri."

[heywooood]

technically they could be catapulted - there was no launch bar, the bridals were cumbersome, the catapult 'flywheel' systems were weak, and the crew who had the 'rundown' duty were underpaid.

this article speaks to it a bit..apparently the early cats were more trouble than they were worth. The SBD was less likely to need the assistance than the later and heavier Avengers and Helldivers

I personally have never seen footage of a cat launched SBD -
And apparently the new cats are the shizznit

http://navalaviationnews.navylive.do...ls-to-magnets/

[PhantomTweak]

...and the crew who had the 'rundown' duty were underpaid.

ALL Navy/MC crewmen who ever go anywhere near the flight deck are underpaid. VERY underpaid. with 2 exceptions: Bosun's Mates, for obvious reasons, and the pilots. The pilots get to play with those expensive toys, under all kinds of exciting weather conditions.
A pilot friend of mine once said that they think "They actually PAY me to do this!" when they're waiting for the cat shot. Of course, sometimes during the recovery, they think "They don't pay me anywhere NEAR enough to do this!"
All depends on just how "exciting" things get, I suppose. As a rule, pilots do tend to prefer dull to exciting...

Have fun!
Pat☺

[heywooood]

ALL Navy/MC crewmen who ever go anywhere near the flight deck are underpaid. VERY underpaid.
Have fun!
Pat☺

it does seem a rather intense piece of real estate...

[Mike71]

technically they could be catapulted - there was no launch bar, the bridals were cumbersome, the catapult 'flywheel' systems were weak, and the crew who had the 'rundown' duty were underpaid.

this article speaks to it a bit..apparently the early cats were more trouble than they were worth. The SBD was less likely to need the assistance than the later and heavier Avengers and Helldivers

I personally have never seen footage of a cat launched SBD -
And apparently the new cats are the shizznit

http://navalaviationnews.navylive.do...ls-to-magnets/

Once again, SBDs could be catapulted. I have a handbook, and I have examined real ones and seen the cat hookup / holdback fittings.

[Mike71]

ALL Navy/MC crewmen who ever go anywhere near the flight deck are underpaid. VERY underpaid. with 2 exceptions: Bosun's Mates, for obvious reasons, and the pilots. The pilots get to play with those expensive toys, under all kinds of exciting weather conditions.
A pilot friend of mine once said that they think "They actually PAY me to do this!" when they're waiting for the cat shot. Of course, sometimes during the recovery, they think "They don't pay me anywhere NEAR enough to do this!"
All depends on just how "exciting" things get, I suppose. As a rule, pilots do tend to prefer dull to exciting...

Have fun!
Pat☺

Hope your joking about Aviation Boatswain's Mates ("AB"s in Navy slang) Phantom. They make order out of total chaos all day long. Three types - Handler, (directors), Fuels ("the purple "grapes") that run the entire aviation fuel system, not just filling up planes - and equipment (cats, arresting gear and FLOLS operation). All great, talented, critical people. I was proud to have the opportunity to lead them.

[dhasdell]

Just to prove it:

[tgycgijoes]

When you got this down and it's working for ya, its time for CCP. You get to START out on the deck and you can create any formation you want (well it says that in the manual anyway) after you figure out how. There IS a great thread here and I was blessed with a fully working final version I am able and allowed to share by the designers. The most perfectly working carrier is Javier's Nimitz but I have gotten some of the earlier carriers through much adaptation to work as well like USS Coral Sea from Lazarus again with his permission. With JoinFS Navy Chief and I have also been able to BOTH get on the flight deck at the same time and launch and recover about as real as it can get in Flight Simulation for us. BTW that is with me in FSX-A and he in P3DV4 too. When it works it's awesome. AI-Carriers is a fantastic program and really great for CARQUALS.

[PhantomTweak]

Mike, I meant no offense.
It's a running joke in the Corps that among the Navy Rates, the AB's are the guys that scrape paint, tweet whistles, tie knots, and coil ropes. Not extremely intelligence intensive. Like the Marine 0311's. Basic grunts. The guys that run at machine gun nests. You know.
Just a joke, like the briefing we got about the flight deck from an old Navy Chief. He told us "If you start getting sucked into a jet's intake, do everything you can to FOD out the engine. Throw any useless things you can into it. Your cranial, float coat, a bosun's mate, y'know, useless items..."

AI-Carriers is a fantastic program and really great for CARQUALS.

It's very versatile, as well. Sling loads for helicopters is an example. You can have all kinds of things to pick up and drop. Ahem...set down again. Without the whole "saved flight" set up it used to require to sling loads under helicopters. Really nice to be able to put a load in front of you to go pick up and carry someplace...

Have fun, all!
Pat☺