What are your thoughts?

[DaleRFU]

Good morning all,

For or a while I've been curious as to what other people think about buying a product whether it be scenery or aircraft only to find out you have a limited number of installs before you have to buy it again. I understand why developers do this, I'm assuming it's to combat pirate downloads etc. However quite often I have found that developers will often state that an Internet connection is required to activate the product (I have no issue with this) but do not say how many times you can active it. Part of me sometimes feels a little cheated by this even though I understand why they do it. What are your thoughts on this?

Regards
Dale

[michaelvader]

Hallo friends,
what do you mean about if you buy a book or motorbike and after having read the book one or two times it does selfdestroying itself or your motorbike after a specefic number of miles is no longer usuable if you do not pay something to the dealer or company?
This behaviour under the cover of counter piracy is just unhonest money making
In fact many doesn'realy sell you their produkt in the sense that having payed it you can do with it what you want as you can do it with a book - they just rent you a product but you pay a price which is as high as if - - -
So for me it is very simple - I will buy a product if after having payed it, it is realy mine with out limitations,
otherwise no chance to win me as a client.
And why to buy if you can get freeware which is often better (look what offers us Milton Shupe, Nigel Richards, Shessi and a lot of other freeware creators) and done not only to make money but done with love !
Yours
Papi

[Naismith]

I cannot think of a single product which self destructs as described. Do tell.

Oh hang on, I once owned a Citroen CX that seemed to do this very thing. Whoever heard of a car being scrapped for rust when just 7 years old.

[hairyspin]

You buy and download an add-on, install it and then activate it: all as normal, most of us have done that. Later some malware trashes your HD and a reinstall includes redoing that add-on. Well, stuff happens, but say at the twentieth time you’re told to contact the developers for reactivating the add-on? Doesn’t seem unreasonable, they have to consider their business as well as your convenience.

It’s the price we pay for not having to wait for a dvd in a box to arrive. Last time I looked there’s even a limit on how many times you can activate FSX boxed before speaking to Microsoft too.

[hairyspin]

Naismith, you’re forgetting the water-soluble Alfas of yore...

[DaleRFU]

Having to activate a product isn't an issue for me. I have a number of sceneries that I have bought through Simmarket that use a Simmarket installer and activation is carried out through Simmarket. A lot of them Only allow 5 activations to be carried out before you are required to buy the product again to then gain more activations however they do not tell you that you will only have a number of times you can install it.

Do people think that either right or wrong?

[Alan_A]

Are you sure what you're seeing is an installation limit? I'm wondering if it might be a download limit, which is pretty common. I can't recall ever having seen a product limited to five installations - in some cases, like with Flight1 products, there's a higher limit, but it's easy to get them to authorize more via an e-mail that cites the order number. No additional purchase is required.

If we're talking about a download limit, the easy workaround is to save a local copy of the installer - say, in a subfolder of your downloads folder. If you have that (and make sure to back it up), you never have to worry about a download again.

[blanston12]

Personally, when dealing with sellers that have limits, either activation or download, my first instinct is to look for another that does not have limits, even if I have to pay a little more. But I have never actually had a problem with it, and as others have said you can always contact them and a reputable seller will reset the limit for you.

[SpaceWeevil]

RealAir had an activation limit - I think it was five times and out. Each time I ran up against this limit, for whatever reason, a polite e-mail to Sean or Rob explaining the situation was enough for them to reset my activations to zero. I would hope that other devs or resellers would respond in the same way.

[Stefano Zibell]

Hurting, limiting, including malware or spying on legitimate customers in the name of "anti-piracy" is a tremendous and moronic lack of vision.

You hurt your customers and the pirates will still find their ways.

In the end, you will probably end up selling less.

[txnetcop]

Strongly dislike the idea...however I bought a 2009 PT Cruiser that self-destructed at 85,000 miles with meticulous maintenance! So I guess it's done by Chyrsler!
Ted

[henrystreet]

Having to activate a product isn't an issue for me. I have a number of sceneries that I have bought through Simmarket that use a Simmarket installer and activation is carried out through Simmarket. A lot of them Only allow 5 activations to be carried out before you are required to buy the product again to then gain more activations however they do not tell you that you will only have a number of times you can install it.

Do people think that either right or wrong?

No way to develop a position based on your anecdote. Need, at a minimum, the name of the developer and the product. Additional helpful info would be from which online store you made the purchase AND a screenshot of the exact message you are seeing while trying the install.

Without this most basic info, all a reader can assume is user error as I personally know of no such policy by any developer.

[Naismith]

Ah yes the joy of 1970's Italian cars. Didn't have an Alpha but did experience a Fiat 131 Mirafiori which let water pour in through the glove box onto the girlfriends feet, and a Lancia Beta which had issues hanging onto its paint and fussy electrics. But they all were very lively and fun otherwise.

[tgycgijoes]

I think that we ALL have had the auto issues. I had 1976 and 1979 Fiat X19s Really fun and good looking cars but the front end came off of the first (not repairable at all) and the second the floorboard rusted clean through. Both issues are because of salt on the roads up North. I know of an X19 in New Mexico that lasted 20 years well cared for until sold. Lost track after that.

I think that we need to move our posts to the old autos BB. LOL.

[Jafo]

RealAir had an activation limit - I think it was five times and out. Each time I ran up against this limit, for whatever reason, a polite e-mail to Sean or Rob explaining the situation was enough for them to reset my activations to zero. I would hope that other devs or resellers would respond in the same way.

Stardock, a company for which I administer [6 million registered users] has activation limits on their software, eg Start10 - a proggy which restores sanity to the Win 10 GUI, and at all times that 'polite email' [or PM] will see your activation limit/s reset.
It's a common process used by many developers to protect IP ...

[Alan_A]

RealAir had an activation limit - I think it was five times and out. Each time I ran up against this limit, for whatever reason, a polite e-mail to Sean or Rob explaining the situation was enough for them to reset my activations to zero. I would hope that other devs or resellers would respond in the same way.

I'd forgotten about the RealAir activation limit - but you're right, Rob and Sean were great about giving new authorizations. Pretty much the opposite of FSD, which I haven't thought about in years. Now that was an adventure, trying to persuade them that you weren't a pirate and actually had a right to keep using the software... fun times for all...

[wombat666]

Read the fine print and if it looks dodgy then find a retailer who is more generous.
I've only ever had a real problem with a single activation and it was never resolved, from day one the registration was not accepted and the supposed 'Customer Support' had to go through Facebook.
Absolutely no help at all.


FTR: My 'German Car(s) don't rust but we've come across some badly neglected ones that have!

[Cowboy1968]

Situational morality tells me this is thrift to avoid thrift.

[falcon409]

I'd forgotten about the RealAir activation limit - but you're right, Rob and Sean were great about giving new authorizations. Pretty much the opposite of FSD, which I haven't thought about in years. Now that was an adventure, trying to persuade them that you weren't a pirate and actually had a right to keep using the software... fun times for all...

Ditto on the FSD. . .I never contacted them for assistance where they didn't immediately insist that the problem was on my end and that they were not at fault, lol. . . .in every instance it eventually proved to be their problem.

[IanP]

Ahhh, FSD. There was never any point in asking for their advice or assistance. I used to have to run their installers in Windows Safe Mode, otherwise they decided I was a pirate.

On the other hand, activation limits exist for a reason and that reason is that people do regularly "share" their installers. Having been sent an install log (many years ago now) where a single installer had been used well over 5,000 times in one day then no, you absolutely cannot trust customers to be honest. That was only one installer of a couple of hundred that had been sold, many of which had been "shared". No, most of the people who ran that installer probably would never have purchased a license for themselves, but once they have it, none of them ever will either. Most developers who don't use protection systems will tell you exactly what happens the moment an unprotected installer is made available for free - sales don't drop, they stop.

More and more software not only has activation limits, but also requires an internet connection to verify the license each time the application us run, not only each time it is installed. Anyone here heard of a package called Prepar3D?

I have heard of a single company who would only allow you to install software five times before you had to purchase it again - that was Electronic Arts and they got absolutely hammered for it (the game was Spore). I know of many companies that require you to purchase additional downloads (VRS, FSLabs) or require activation with limits on activation counts (too many to list) but I've not met a single FS developer who puts an absolute limit on the number of installs. All the ones I've ever met have been able to reactivate installations with a polite request.

That said, some developers do have absolute installation limits within a period of time, so you may only be able to install five times within three months, for example, but three months after the each install, that count is reduced again automatically.

Ian P.

[BendyFlyer]

I guess I never had that issue with anybody. There have been some places that put a limit and ask you to make a small payment for the service but it was reasonable to help manage their bandwith, no issue there. The only mob that have caused me grief are ^%$#@ something 1, diabolical e-commerce, could not do a rebuild cause I could not do a download, but that is another story, so never went back.

I am curious , Why would would you want to keep downloading it in the first place?, I have only done it once or twice for a few things but otherwise I always keep copies to use again should there be a problem requiring a rebuild for some reason, very rare.

[As for things French with the Chevron, same as things French with the Lion, nothing but effing trouble and money. The last one, she who must be obeyed's idea nearly sent us broke, spent more time in the garage than on the road, two engines, one gearbox, one fuel tank, major electrical issues etc etc. Might be all right in the streets of gay Paris but in outback or Country OZ, fell apart rapidly, crazy designs, no quality control, pretty but useless! Give me Korean or Japanese any day, they work and they keep working]

[hairyspin]

French with the lion things were the only make other than three-pointed star which could stand up to Nigerian roads (cough) when I was a nipper, but that was more than a fortnight ago.

[Dave22]

Not exactly an install issue, since the original installation and product works as specified, however:

Airplane developer "C" provides updates to airplane fleet.
Customer "D" downloads from on-line vendor "F" what he thinks is the update, except that it's not, and notifies developer hoping for an update.
Airplane developer "C" will not provide customer with update, claims proper update suppled to vendor "F", and it's their problem.
On-line vendor "F" claims properly updated product available, any problems must be solved by airplane developer "C".

Everyone involved pays a hidden price, especially the customer who would rather keep buying and flying.

Customer "D" votes no to both, with his open wallet flapping in the tail-wind created by petty argument.

[BendyFlyer]

Not exactly an install issue, since the original installation and product works as specified, however:

Airplane developer "C" provides updates to airplane fleet.
Customer "D" downloads from on-line vendor "F" what he thinks is the update, except that it's not, and notifies developer hoping for an update.
Airplane developer "C" will not provide customer with update, claims proper update suppled to vendor "F", and it's their problem.
On-line vendor "F" claims properly updated product available, any problems must be solved by airplane developer "C".

Everyone involved pays a hidden price, especially the customer who would rather keep buying and flying.

Customer "D" votes no to both, with his open wallet flapping in the tail-wind created by petty argument.

Gotcha - yep at least there is an update, seriously, same issue with another product recently except no updates, same circle. Same outcome.

[wombat666]

French with the lion things were the only make other than three-pointed star which could stand up to Nigerian roads (cough) when I was a nipper, but that was more than a fortnight ago.

You just reminded me of the venerable 203 series from eons past!
Great cars for 'Outback Dwellers', if you lived out the back of Bourke all the Pugs needed was fuel, oil and water, they never rusted because it only rained once each year.