Historical research request...Cape Cod Military Museum
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Thread: Historical research request...Cape Cod Military Museum

  1. #1
    Senior Administrator Rami's Avatar
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    Exclamation Historical research request...Cape Cod Military Museum

    Hey guys,

    Word has gotten around about us fellows...I was contacted by the Cape Cod Military Museum in Bourne, MA about specific information about air activities on Cape Cod during WWII.

    I will post the contents of the email for all of you, and let's see if we can find the information, and (maybe) even do a skin or two...

    I was wondering if the Cape Cod Military Museum could tap into you and your colleague's areas of expertise. Most of our questions that we would like answers to are about training and patrolling that went on in the Cape Cod Area (not many air battles). Our first question is, George Bush flew out of Quonset Point Auxiliary Air Station Hyannis in WWII (Otis air field was also an auxiliary air station) We were wondering what type of plane he was flying, it's markings, was it named Barbara I? We believe his whole carrier group trained on the Cape then landed on the newly completed aircraft carrier after it left the Fore River Shipyard in Quincy. We have a 1/18 scale avenger (if this is indeed his type of aircraft) that we would like to have marked up as his plane. Any info on the types of Naval planes and markings that flew out of the Cape and Islands would be great.

    British RAF aircraft flew out of Otis as well during the war (convoy escort duty) any information on what types of aircraft, markings etc. would be welcome.

    USAC/F Pilots flew out of Otis for anti U-boat patrols in fact one pilot sunk two U-boats in one day. He sunk one U-boat, went back to re-arm and caught another on the surface racing to help the crew of the first U-boat. It was the top story of the Camp Edwards Bulletin in 1943. Information on type, units markings would be appreciated. I think he flew a B-25.

    I'm sure we can nose around and at least provide some answers...any ideas on where to start?
    "Rami"

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  2. #2

    Starting point?...

    Rami;

    Maybe we could use this info as a starting point and expand from here. http://www.massaerohistory.org/Naval...1923-1945.html

  3. #3

    Quonset Point as a Fleet Air Arm base

    Andrew,

    Good summary of RN FAA use of Quonset Point NAS can be found here: http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....2#.Wv3dm-4vyUk

  4. #4

    George HW Bush & CVL30 San Jacinto

    This site https://www.navsource.org/archives/02/30.htm suggests VT-51 was flying Avengers from her by May '44, & there is an earlier photo showing a SNJ on deck. Maybe he transitioned from SNJ to TBF whilst at Quonset?

  5. #5

    Some light reading on this

    ..here is a website of all the patrol squadrons during WW2 and links to their history, aircraft AAR's etc. Some nice light reading

    https://www.vpnavy.com/vp82_1940.html

    BTW I searched for two U-boat losses in proximate time\location and with no joy, maybe others will have better results.

    Here is some more good reading: https://www.history.navy.mil/content...adronsVol2.pdf

    The index, etc, titles are clickable links to the relevant items.

  6. #6

    Squantum as a Fleet Air Arm base

    http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....m#.Wv3wK-4vyUk

    Text indicates some of the likely USN VP squadron patrol activity in the area as well.

    "NAS Squantum served as a maritime patrol and training base Navy squadrons VJ-4 and VS-1D1/VS-31 flew anti-submarine patrols over Massachusetts Bay and the Gulf of Maine using Grumman Duck, Consolidated PBY Catalina, Vought-Sikorsky Kingfisher, Douglas Dauntless, and Curtiss Helldiver."

  7. #7
    I know us Limeys trained using Grumman Widgeon in the states, not sure exactly where though, will go digging. I remember doing a couple of RN repaints for the JF Widgeon for those aircraft. It was modelled by Shessi's chum Chris, still payware AFAIK.

    Jamie

  8. #8
    Turns out they were from Pensacola, sorry. Never released the paints as the model uses similar mapping techniques to the default, mirroring, etc. Not sure I even still have them.

  9. #9

    If the question is aircraft names....

    ...all the assigned a\c apparently were named "Barbara" (2 and 3). Read it here in this article
    https://ihffilm.com/george-bush-41-a...ne-taylor.html
    As to Quonset Point all I can say, from personal experience, is that it gets darn *#@## cold in the winter with the wind! Especially in January "68

  10. #10
    53 Squadron flew Hudson IIIs and Vs from Quonset Point between 30th July and 12th August 1942.
    They were fitted with ASV and received the EDSG/DSG/White Scheme prior to leaving the UK.
    Squadron codes were 'PZ', and I do have a list of identities although whether they're applicable to this period or later when they'd moved to Trinidad I don't know.

    It was also HMS Asbury between October '42 and October '43
    http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....m#.Wv88pEgvzRY

  11. #11
    SOH-CM-2023 Ravenna's Avatar
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    53 squadron RAF Hudsons shown in this pic seem to sport a paint scheme matching USN aircraft flying out of the Eastern seaboard at the time 53 was based in Quonset Point. A bit difficult to see the finer points, but certainly different from standard CC finishes.

  12. #12
    SOH-CM-2023 Ravenna's Avatar
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    There is an airfield location listed on this site: http://massaerohistory.org/Naval%20A...1923-1945.html

    The co-ords for Quonset Point airfield are given, so if we can come up with the plan and its orientation perhaps someone could make the airbase with a view to setting up a "hands on" CFS2 install for visitors to the museum. Depending on their resources and focus they might be interested in giving visitors a taste of what it was like to fly into and out of the location or to experience part of a training flight.
    Last edited by Ravenna; May 19th, 2018 at 17:46.

  13. #13

  14. #14

    Forgotten and abandoned airfields...

    ...here is a site that has info on old airfields in Ma. Maybe some of the info is useful. It has orientations etc'
    http://www.airfields-freeman.com/MA/Airfields_MA.htm

  15. #15
    SOH-CM-2023 Ravenna's Avatar
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    Some useful information and diagrams here: http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....m#.WwExLSARW70

    Rereading the email above, it occured to me that, as Lt. Bush was flying aircraft for training purposes he would not have named the plane or planes which he flew.

  16. #16
    Ravenna

    Training aircraft were assigned to the base, not the units being trained, or to any individual pilot. When a unit was declared ready to deploy they usually moved to a different base - which could be stateside, Hawaii, or a Pacific base like Ulithi - where new squadron aircraft would be issued to the unit to work up on and work out any mechanical bugs prior to flying aboard their new carrier. In VT51's case that was the airfield at Hyannis Port. MA.

    Generally speaking, except for the CAGs, Navy pilots flew any plane assigned that day depending on the deckload arrangement that day. Quite different from the Army practice of assigning planes to pilots. Few Navy planes other than CAG aircraft had names unless the plane captain (maintenance) gave it one. Because the San Jac only carried 9 TBMs naming planes may have been permissible in the small Squadron?
    Cheers,

    Captain Kurt
    ------------------------------------------------------
    "Fly, you fools!" Gandalf the Gray

  17. #17

    CK........

    ......in line with what you posted. The info I found had some pics of Bush in his planes. What was unique that I noticed is that they all had the name "Barbara" written on them in what appears to be CHALK. Maybe he named the planes that he flew, for the mission, like that or just named the plane for a photo to send home. Also found a reference, have to re-find it, that the squadron finished training and fitted out at a base in the Chesapeake Bay before embarking on the San Jacino.

  18. #18

    Vt-51 and others....

    ..just came across this post at another site that had some interesting info and patches. The second site by the Bent Prop Project has some interesting info on the markings of VT-51 while deployed in the Pacific.
    http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/287728-air-groups-51-49-and-45-uss-san-jacinto-cvl-30-vf-51-vt-51-vf-49-vt-49-wwii/

    http://legacy.bentprop.org/pm8/final...rt_atch_01.htm

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kurt View Post
    Generally speaking, except for the CAGs, Navy pilots flew any plane assigned that day depending on the deckload arrangement that day. Quite different from the Army practice of assigning planes to pilots. Few Navy planes other than CAG aircraft had names unless the plane captain (maintenance) gave it one. Because the San Jac only carried 9 TBMs naming planes may have been permissible in the small Squadron?
    The exception to that rule being certain Navy junior officer "aces" (non-CAG), who were allowed to keep their own mounts with victory tallies painted up. But these guys generally went on to make CAG later in short order as they continued to perform a cut above in combat ops.

    "If you're in a fair fight, you didn't plan it right"


  20. #20
    Senior Administrator Rami's Avatar
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    Icon22 Reply...

    Good morning,

    Wow...thank you for all this information...I will begin sifting through this today and send a report to them by Friday. I'll ask questions as they come up.
    "Rami"

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    Senior Administrator Rami's Avatar
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    Icon22 Reply...

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTgt View Post
    Andrew,

    Good summary of RN FAA use of Quonset Point NAS can be found here: http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....2#.Wv3dm-4vyUk
    John,

    Wonderful synopsis, thank you for this link.
    "Rami"

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    Senior Administrator Rami's Avatar
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    Icon22 Reply...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fibber View Post
    Rami;

    Maybe we could use this info as a starting point and expand from here. http://www.massaerohistory.org/Naval...1923-1945.html
    Fibber,

    This is also a wonderful resource and a great place to start, thanks!
    "Rami"

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  23. #23
    Senior Administrator Rami's Avatar
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    Icon22 Reply...

    Good morning,

    I really appreciate the information on the Royal Navy / Fleet Air Arm and the US Navy. Switching gears here, what would be good sources to determine USAAC Group / Squadron information for air activities in Massachusetts, especially on Cape Cod?

    Thanks in advance,
    "Rami"

    "Me? I'm just a Sea of Tranquility in an Ocean of Storms, babe."

    My campaign site: http://www.box.net/shared/0k1e1rz29h
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  24. #24

    Bit of ot trivia here.....

    ....did you know that when the USS Houston went down with the HMAS Perth in the Battle of the Sundra Strait that the city of Houston began to fund raise money for a new ship to be named the USS Houston. The drive was so successful that 85 million dollars was raised to cover the cost a new ship. The money was enough to fund the new Houston and a light aircraft carrier as well. That second ship was already under construction at NY Shipbuilding at Camden NJ. The name of that second ship was the San Jacinto (CVL-30).

  25. #25

    Rami.......

    .....this is a little bit tougher to find than I would think it would be. However, here is a link that keeps popping up for research https://www.ww2research.com/locate-i...-request-form/
    Maybe a request to that researcher might give some results.

    ADDENDUM: I did find this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massac...Army_Airfields

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