Landclass Question

[Mick]

I posted this in the appropriate developer's forum and it drew no responses, so I'm re-posting it here where there are many more eyes to see it, in the hope that someone can help.

I'm trying to develop KBAD Barksdale Field in Golden Wings (aka Barksdale AFB in FS2004.) To begin with I want to get rid of the runways, since in the pre-war era Barksdale didn't have paved runways. I've done this for other pre-war military airfields by making a land class file with EZ Landclass to put open grassy fields under and around the airfields. It's always worked until now.

Alas, it isn't working at Barksdale. I can turn the surrounding area into grassy fields, but the ground under the stock air base ramps and runway are a burnt brown color and I can't get it to change. The brown area is within the area covered by the landclass file, but something is preventing the landclass from showing up in the brown area.

I thought it might be a bit of Golden Wings weirdness, so I tried it in FS2004 and got the same result, so I guess it's FS9 weirdness.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to fix this? Al I want to do is turn the brown parts green.

Yes, I know I could make an AFCAD file, but AFCAD "grass" doesn't look like grass, it looks like felt on a pool table. I want real grass. Or at least FS9 grass, "as real as it gets."

[tgibson]

Hi,

Try making a terrain exclude file for the original airport polygon. I'm not sure exactly how that works in SBuilder, but there should be a way to exclude terrain polygons from the sim. You'll need to set the exclude in each "terrain square".

[nigel richards]

Just a thought here, Mick - have you tried changing the folder/file hierachy of your scenery?

I would presume you've created a custom Addon Scenery area folder - is it at the TOP of your 'Addon Scenery' hierarchy in your Scenery Library window?

Another way of getting some better texture quality onto your airstrip would be to make a custom ground poly in ADE - much better for realism IMHO.
If you need any help on this, let me know.

[nigel richards]

Mick: I tried out the hierarchy solution using a custom EZ-Landclass bgl, regrettably to no avail.

Tom's SBuilder exclude suggestion would definitely be one way of solving the issue.

The ADE ground poly method produced positive results (tried a rough and ready custom texture from my textures toolbox).
It Works! So if you wish to take the ADE route, please let me know. :-)

[Mick]

Tom, I appreciate your comments but they flew right over my head. I have no idea how to create a terrain exclusion or even what that is, or what a terrain square might be. I only know how to exclude objects, like autogen and such.

Nigel, Wow, that looks like just what I want to do.

Did you make a file that you could send me? Or is it not that simple?

I can't make a textures or land class ground polygon in ADE; that can only be done in FSX, according to the manual. In FS9 the only thing the polygon tool can make is a flatten file.

I could never figure out SBuilder. Maybe I just don't have the patience. Or maybe I'm just not smart enough. I've tried several times to learn how to do things in SBuilder and my eyes glazed over and my head started to hurt.

I knew it wasn't about the scenery hierarchy. As a WIP, KBAD is at the top of the stack, and anyway, anything in Add On Scenery would be higher than any stock airport, wouldn't it?

I've done this same thing for other old airfields using only EZ Landclass and never had this happen.

[nigel richards]

Mick; you're absolutely correct about not being able to create custom Landclass/Waterclass scenery for FS2004 in ADE...

BUT...

You'll be pleased to know that Custom Ground Polys are easy to create once you've done the process a couple of times.

And the great advantage is you can make them any shape, create your own Custom Textures, and add them to the ADE Texture Library for future projects.
Read the excellent ADE manual for a better understanding of Custom Ground Polys.

Here are the basic steps:

[nigel richards]

I'll prepare a better quality bgl. file/texture for you tomorrow - just add to your custom scenery folder/ scenery and texture folders.

[Mick]

Thanks Nigel,
I hope I can follow those instructions! Sometimes my aging synapses don't put things together as the should.

[Mick]

OK, I fixed it. I don't understand why it needed fixing, or what I did differently, but it's OK now. The brown areas are gone, as are the streets and rocks and stuff that I wanted to get rid of.

I did what I should've done before I started asking for help. I just deleted what I'd done and started over. All I did over was make a new LC file, and the new one works as advertised. I did it just like I did the first one, but this one works and that one didn't. What's really strange is that the shape of those brown areas doesn't correspond hardly at all with the shape of the area covered by the LC file. Go figure.

It's a good thing this worked in EZlandclass, since I couldn't do anything in ADE9X or SBuilder. I'll tell why not just FYI.

I looked in the ADE manual and the section for Terrain Elements is prominently marked "FSX Only."

I thought I'd just try to follow your (Nigel's) instructions step by step, and the very first step involved clicking a button that doesn't exist in my ADE9X, presumably because ADE somehow knows that I'm working in FS9. I suppose I must have told it that when I installed it. I just have empty space where that button is in your screen shots. I have the button that will only make flattens in FS9, and the button for excludes, and just blank empty space between them on the menu bar.

I went to open SBuilder to investigate Tom's instructions only to find that I don't have it installed. I had it on my previous XP rig but this attempt to find and run it reminded me that I don't have it on my present W7pro rig, and brought up a dim recollection that I tried to install it some time ago land couldn't get it up and running. I don't recall why. Maybe it's just another in the long list of programs that won't work in post-XP versions of Windows.

Anyway, all is well now. I'm fiddling with little things like backdating airfields in GW because my very drawn out repair and rebuild project on this confutor is still WIP, so I've eased my FS cravings with little things like this, checking out the Avros, fiddling with the Catalinas, and a few other quick and easy things that I've let myself get into while not putting a lot of time on the machine. Barksdale was threatening to turn into a real project, and that would've meant putting it on the back burner until I no longer feel compelled to keep my usage of this rig to, or at least not to far above, a minimum.

Thanks you Tom and Nigel for your kind assistance!! I apologize for pestering you when I shouldn't have needed to.

[nigel richards]

Pleased you sorted the issue out, Mick. :-)

Re: ADE - you probably have an older version as ADE165 and above handles custom ground polys flawlessly for FS9.

[Mick]

Pleased you sorted the issue out, Mick. :-)

Re: ADE - you probably have an older version as ADE165 and above handles custom ground polys flawlessly for FS9.

I just checked and I have 1.50.18.197, and when I checked for an update I got a box telling me that I have the latest version.

That's OK, my problem is solved and I hope not to have it happen again.

I'm just sorry that I didn't think to deep six the original file and try making a new one before I asked for help and took up your time and effort unnecessarily, especially when you're so busy with the Avro project. My apologies!

[tgibson]

Hi,

ADE does NOT handle terrain polygons for FS9, only FSX and later. It DOES do ground polygons for FS9, but these are a completely different animal, and are typically used to place custom runways, taxiways, aprons, and parking lots. Ground polygons do not have the capability to remove default terrain polygons, etc. but can cover them up if desired.

[Mick]

Hi,

ADE does NOT handle terrain polygons for FS9, only FSX and later. It DOES do ground polygons for FS9, but these are a completely different animal, and are typically used to place custom runways, taxiways, aprons, and parking lots. Ground polygons do not have the capability to remove default terrain polygons, etc. but can cover them up if desired.

Thank you Tom.

I use both AFCAD and ADE9X for different jobs, as each has its unique charms I know I could make a grass area with AFCAD but AFCAD "grass" has such a uniform texture, like the felt on a pool table, that in the sim it doesn't look anything like grass. More like a rug, not even like Astroturf. I have seen it done in ADX files and it looks just as bad. I know how to do the same thing in ADE9X, but I never did the experiment because I didn't expect it to look any better that AFCAD or ADX "grass.". But maybe it would. The present job is done, but when the opportunity presents and time allows, I will do the experiment and see what it looks like.

[tgibson]

Hi,

The basic grass aprons in ADE are identical to those in AFCAD. You can create a ground polygon in ADE using the default grass texture which looks pretty good, but will have sharp edges. I normally use a program like SBuilder to place VTP grass polygons, which look better IMO.

[Mick]

Hi,

The basic grass aprons in ADE are identical to those in AFCAD. You can create a ground polygon in ADE using the default grass texture which looks pretty good, but will have sharp edges. I normally use a program like SBuilder to place VTP grass polygons, which look better IMO.

Thanks Tom. I figured ADE grass aprons would be the same as AFCAD, which is why I didn't get around to trying the experiment. Thanks for letting me know for sure. Regardless of the program that makes it, I call such aprons "AFCAD grass" and I detest them. They look so phony, and they're an artificial looking color; they reach out and poke you in the eye from a considerable distance away. As long as I can use EZ Landclass to turn the underlying ground into "FS grass" that doesn't look like a rug, changes with the seasons and looks like the grass in the surrounding area, I can continue to avoid "AFCAD grass.

I still don't know why the EZ LC file didn't work the first time. I suspect it had something to do with the glitchiness of my not yet rebuilt confutor rather than with FS or EZ LC.