Current state of naval / tactical aviation simulation?

[stearmandriver]

Hello all,

This is a very broad question and not FSX specific, but I didn't really know where to put it and many of you frequenting this forum seem well versed in the topic so I thought I'd try here. I apologize if it's the wrong place.

I also considered asking in the current thread going about naval aircraft, but I guess it's broader than that and I didn't want to hijack his thread :-).

I've recently gotten (re)interested in military / tactical aviation sim. My primary interest is naval aviation with realistic carrier ops. I didn't realize how good FSXA was in this regard! With vlso, AI carriers, Javier's Nimitz... Geez, good times!

So I'm definitely going to grab some more detailed planes for carrier ops; probably starting with the FSXBA Hornet but I imagine eventually grabbing the Superbug as well (I like systems depth / abnormals etc). But this has gotten me wondering about the general state of tactical sim. Back in the day I greatly enjoyed Falcon 3.0 (I'm old lol). So I'm wondering - is there a platform that combines the realism and depth of carrier aviation and aircraft in FSX with actual tactical missions and strategy, weapons deployment, being shot at etc?

I've been googling and this is the understanding I've arrived at; I wanted to check it with the experts and see what I'm missing.

1. For actual combat ops, DCS seems the best. But carrier aviation seems greatly lacking... From what I understand, no moving carriers, no IFLOLS, no ILS, no LSO etc. True?
2. Tackpack in FSX enables weapons deployment and causes SAMS to be launched at you, but there's no air - to - air action (unless in multi-player against other players), and also no specific missions you're assigned or a campaign mode? Is that right?
3. Fsx@War provides mission assignments and kind of a campaign mode? But still no air-to-air? And apparently the project is going away anyway because of a falling - out between collaborators?

So, for someone who's first priority is realistic carrier ops in a jet with a realistic flight model and systems , but who also wants to try flying some assigned missions... It seems FSX with a good tackpacked jet, a good moving carrier, vLSO, and @war is the best available combination? Accepting the lack of air-to-air?

Please chime in if there's any options or combinations I'm missing, or if any of my above understandings are incorrect. I want to make sure I understand the best option before buying software and going down the rabbit hole of a study level tactical jet.

I know that's a big question. Thanks for any help!

[Stinger]

Not sure if your aware but there are several Naval Groups, including our own(www.usnva.com )that are thriving quite nicely. We use joinfs which allows cross platforms (FSX;Accc,FSX;Steam and all versions of P3D and X-plane. So to think we’re not out there doing all and every aspects of Naval Avation your wrong

[docjohnson]

I would also add to the above, that Air to Air Combat is alive and well. For training, all you need is a drone which is provided by the Tacpack addon. You can program that drone to go straight and level or maneuvering. There is in addition to the Tacpack, FSX@War, and CCP an addon that adds AAA/FLAK to the mix. Its called FSCAI, from FSCaptain. I haven't done much multiplayer, but now that I'm building SimObjects I'm painfully aware how hard it is to get these aircraft and other add-ons to work in multiplayer.



The multiplayer engagements against a human opponent are still the only way to do simulated dogfighting. So from that perspective your right about the multiplayer stuff.

[Ganter]

Tacpack and FSX@War with the addon; CCP (Carrier and Convoy Planner). It allows you to set up the enemy - set him on a trajectory (moving ground vehicles, AI aircraft, etc ) and then you can plan your frustrations of his intentions - on the ground and in the air too. You can save the campaigns to continue fighting later, get assessments of your performance and strategy, etc. It's a steep learning curve but pretty good when you get it.

Get yourself some really good aircraft. Dino F-35 and soon to be released Queen Elizabeth (there's a thread around here somewhere).

Or go retro and grab the SSW Harrier AV-8B and bung it on Nimitz.

With Tacpack and FSX@War with CCP integration it moves the bar significantly upwards. Adrenaline will flow.

See you up there.

[Naruto-kun]

1: I believe DCS is going to take a step up with the release of the F/A-18C.

3: Correct on what FSX@War currently offers. However, it isn't entirely going out. Cougar is starting a new version but the previous programmer Motus is not going to be involved.

[Stinger]

DCS is fine, if you want to limit the theatre to just 300sq. miles we prefer to use the whole globe and with orbx scenery ( i’m usiing P3Dv4.2)and the fact with our dedicated servers we can sail our Carriers from ocean to ocean. And I doubt the dcs horent is any match to the awesome VRS SUPER BUG

[Stefano Zibell]

DCS is fine, if you want to limit the theatre to just 300sq. miles we prefer to use the whole globe and with orbx scenery ( i’m usiing P3Dv4.2)and the fact with our dedicated servers we can sail our Carriers from ocean to ocean. And I doubt the dcs horent is any match to the awesome VRS SUPER BUG

Oh yes it is.

[SiR_RiPPER]

I hate to jump on a thread for advertising purposes, but this weekend you'll hear some very good news on this exact front.

[Stinger]

Oh yes it is.

You’re entitled to your opinion, we’ll just say ..we’ll agree to disagree

[stearmandriver]

Alex, I just watched some of the SWS proof of concept videos. The pitching and rolling carrier in heavy seas was absolutely astonishing. Is that gonna work in FSX?!

I figured there were multi-player groups doing this kind of thing; glad to hear it's an active scene. That's definitely something I'd be interested in, but time is my issue with that. Still, I may very well hit up your organization, Stinger.

I didn't even realize there was an ACM training component to Tacpack. Thanks for that heads up. Glad to hear @war will be moving forward as well.

I'd say you guys have convinced me. Sounds like FSX/P3d is still the right platform choice for naval aviation. Guess I'd better grab that bug and get all Tacpacked up... ;-)

Thanks for all the input and feel free to keep it coming. I enjoy being amazed by all the things I still didn't know were possible in this hobby...

[Stinger]

Just so you know, we are a very relaxed group, i’Ve been doing this for better the 20 yrs and the USNVA has been around for more then 12. So we’re old hands at this and my partner in this is one of the finest developers in all of flight sim. There isn’t anything we can’t do and have multiple members with real world experience. We welcome you to check us out and any questions you may have, i’m Sure we can answer them. We are all about fun, and if you want to learn, we’ll even teach you. But there’s never any pressure, just enjoyment

[Stefano Zibell]

And I'm getting old waiting for my favorite naval fighter, the F-8.

RFN?

[Ganter]

"Just so you know, we are a very relaxed group, i’Ve been doing this for better the 20 yrs and the USNVA has been around for more then 12. So we’re old hands at this and my partner in this is one of the finest developers in all of flight sim. There isn’t anything we can’t do and have multiple members with real world experience. We welcome you to check us out and any questions you may have, i’m Sure we can answer them. We are all about fun, and if you want to learn, we’ll even teach you. But there’s never any pressure, just enjoyment"

I'll put myself out there in the firing line being a relative newcomer in the old Out House - and I've been bashing away at the old boys here for a couple of years now but how come you say you've been doing this for 20 years and yet your post count here is, well, rather low; lower than mine - to say the least? (sorry, we're a bit hardened in here at the SOH - no offence intended.)

[Stinger]

Because of my Military commitment on not having access to the internet because of my remote location and the fact at the time I had lost what email or even forum name I was using. I just went ahead and created a new ID, since it had been many years that I was away once I got home I began to once again involved here. And just because I have “a low post count” has anything to do with experience? I prefer to just read the post here and I value the opinions here and the wealth of information on this forum.But why am explaining myself to you?

[MrZippy]

And I'm getting old waiting for my favorite naval fighter, the F-8.

RFN?

Would that be the F-8 Crusader?

[SiR_RiPPER]

Alex, I just watched some of the SWS proof of concept videos. The pitching and rolling carrier in heavy seas was absolutely astonishing. Is that gonna work in FSX?!

It will, but we are not sure whether it will look good due to the permanently calm seas.

[henrystreet]

"I'll put myself out there in the firing line being a relative newcomer in the old Out House - and I've been bashing away at the old boys here for a couple of years now but how come you say you've been doing this for 20 years and yet your post count here is, well, rather low; lower than mine - to say the least? (sorry, we're a bit hardened in here at the SOH - no offence intended.)"

Those that know do not necessarily have to crow.

PS Unless you have been involved in virtual Naval simulation squadrons that have current and/or former USN aviators as members OR are a current/former USN aviator yourself, you probably know a lot less about that billet than you believe. They know, if you know what I mean.

[awstub]

There are a lot of loose ends that are still in the process of being secured, but from what I have been able to see, there are some really great things on the horizon concerning naval ops and tactical aviation for FSX/P3D.
It's pretty exciting, actually.

[expat]

It seems FSX with a good tackpacked jet, a good moving carrier, vLSO, and @war is the best available combination? Accepting the lack of air-to-air?

I was on Falcon 4.0 and Freefalcon years ago before discovering FS9. Your statement I have quoted has also been my impression. I have not gone into tackpac or @war and focus mainly on carrier ops. I also enjoy creating navair "environments" with period AI. Am building this out now in P3Dv4 in Vietnam (Yankee Station) with several cv's on carrier tracks as well as fixed (scenery) carriers that have period AI. Ditto with 50's Korea and WWII Solomons. The SWS AI on a moving carrier will be a big leap forward.

Happy for others here to tell me otherwise, I have never found a flight sim that had the sophisticated, adrenaline inducing interactive campaign that Falcon 4.0 had, with air and ground weaponry spawning randomly never in the same places - Flanker/Lock On was pretty good but the carrier side was abysmal compared with where we are now with P3D. But I am probably way out of date . .

[edakridge]

Ganter, just because some one doesn't post a lot means nothing nor does their join date. Myself, my join date is listed as 2014 and I have been a member here since 2006. This is the internet and S***T Happens.

Stearmandriver, I admit that my opinion is biased. I have been using MS based sims since FS4 and am now using P3Dv4.2. I have seen the very first attempts at Carrier Ops using static Carriers and ArrCab and now am in the thick of things with the current offerings. Both DCS (I refuse to call it a World!) and X-Plane 11 offer VERY LIMITED Carrier operations. Neither has the level of functionality offered by FSX or P3D. Using third party addons such as Tacpack, CCP, or the wonderful Simworks Studios Carriers just add to the experience. In FSX and P3D you can actually start your Carrier moving off the coast of California (Or anywhere else in the World) using Tacpack and track the Tacan from 100 miles away. While X-Plane 11 offers a moving Carrier, DCS does not. DCS uses a static scenery object like we used with FS2002 and FS2004. I am not sure if the X-Plane Nimitz can be used outside of the "Special Starts" or not, but it is animated and moving which in my opinion is superior to DCS. In conclusion: In FSX/P3D you have a far superior platform for Naval Aviation than the other available Sims/Video Games.

[Ganter]

Because of my Military commitment on not having access to the internet because of my remote location and the fact at the time I had lost what email or even forum name I was using. I just went ahead and created a new ID, since it had been many years that I was away once I got home I began to once again involved here. And just because I have “a low post count” has anything to do with experience? I prefer to just read the post here and I value the opinions here and the wealth of information on this forum.But why am explaining myself to you?

I've been doing a bit of research this morning and I get it now. Cool. Some time ago I looked around on Vatsim for some virtual Mil Combat and although there are groups it seemed to have had its heyday around 2013-15. Where are you guys lurking? Or is that classified.

[awstub]

FSX/P3D offers much more immersion than the other sims out there.

To illustrate my point......Back when I was testing the SWS Coral Sea in FSX, I was able to set sail from Norfolk, Virginia and navigate into the Mediterranean Sea.
It took careful planning to make sure my arrival at the Straight of Gibraltar happened a time I would be available to steer the ship.
Once there, I launched a Phantom and dropped bombs on Mitiga airport and then recovered on the carrier. After that, I set sail back to Norfolk.....and then repeated the whole process again.
I was able to keep doing this for a little over two weeks, launching and recovering numerous times along the way...... until my system shut down due to a power outage.
Had that not happened, who knows how long i could have kept it up.

I have yet to find any other sim that allows navair ops like this ....and now with FSX@War/CCP and FSCAI it's gotten even better.
During my testing, I've been able to launch from the Tonkin Gulf and strike targets in North Vietnam and Laos.
At times, I have received battle damage and crashed....and other times I was able to recover at a land base when I couldn't make it back to the carrier.
I should add that this all has appears to work in multi-player too....though I have not been able to determine what the maximum number of connections it can handle yet.

Now, on top of all of this, carrier ops are about to get more immersive than they have ever been.

[henrystreet]

I've been doing a bit of research this morning and I get it now. Cool. Some time ago I looked around on Vatsim for some virtual Mil Combat and although there are groups it seemed to have had its heyday around 2013-15. Where are you guys lurking? Or is that classified.

The active squadrons don't hang out on public forums (with the exception of the VRS and FSX@War forums). They have Facebook groups and their own websites. Generally you don't hear much from them unless they are in recruitment. Some have VERY high standards of performance and participation. Some are more relaxed. All require a pretty high level of competence and technical ability.

For most of these, expect check rides and/or training curriculum.

[Ganter]

The active squadrons don't hang out on public forums (with the exception of the VRS and FSX@War forums). They have Facebook groups and their own websites. Generally you don't hear much from them unless they are in recruitment. Some have VERY high standards of performance and participation. Some are more relaxed. All require a pretty high level of competence and technical ability.

For most of these, expect check rides and/or training curriculum.

Indeed it would seem. High standards. Too high for me. Makes you realise how much is involved flying fast mil jets. Anyone can lob it through the sky at M1.2 but the manoeuvres - to really do them well - takes a lot of time and practise. Kudos to them all.

[Stinger]

This weekend we are about to begin our Korean Campaign,built entirely by our group using FSX@war with inplaced Sam batteries,AAA ,weapon storage bunkers ,moving truck and armor convoys using ccp
Our 2 fighter squadrons have been transitioning from our home at Lemoore NAS out to the Carrier which has sailed across the pacific and is now positioned in the Sea of Japan. Our support Squadron has flown back and forth to Asugti NAS ferrying supplies from their base at Pt.Mugu NAS. Our crews are ready, trained up and ready to go. Every combat aircraft is e fly is tacpac enabled or able to get refueled in the air. But we just do modern campaigns, we love to step back in time and do ww2, both Europe and pacific, vintage Korea and My favorite... Vietnam ( since I spent 30 month there).
You can’t do any of that with DCS
... Newbies are always welcome. 😏