FDG2 b-17E....

**Fibber** · March 31st, 2018, 12:16

...bear with me as it has been awhile . I went to use the Bismark Sea Campaign and needed the B-17E "Skip bomber". Well it seems that this thing can't get off the ground! First it blows up halfway down the runway or else just becomes a grass burner, never seems to get off the ground! Same thing appears with the regular FDG2 B-17E.
I seem to recall that this was mentioned here along time ago but can't find the post. I assume it is a .dp problem. Anyone know if a corrected .dp was ever made to correct this? I can't find it and since my past computer problem I have nothing in my d/l files.

***Rami*** · March 31st, 2018, 15:13

Fibber,

Try these: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...tid=47&id=2391

**Fibber** · April 1st, 2018, 10:29

...installed the KH that you posted. Still no joy. Attains only 71 knots ground speed and then after some lift drops to 68 knots with the inevitable "splat"!

***Rami*** · April 1st, 2018, 10:44

Fibber,

You do know that it's not in a French configuration, right? You move the throttles forward to increase power....I tried both the campaign files and the ones I linked to, and I could get the plane off with no issues...weird.

**Fibber** · April 1st, 2018, 14:43

. I happen to know what that means and No it is not a Frenchie. Just for some reason this bird won't fly! Tried standing on the brakes with the engines on full and no luck. The power plant for some reason seems underpowered.
Stumped on this one.

**No Dice** · April 1st, 2018, 15:11

Fibber,
Maybe you can try swapping the configs and / or DP's from one of these and narrow down the problem ??

	The Memphis Belle for CFS1 or CFS2 By Herve Devred, Michel Melchior Sound by Mike Hambly Adaptation by A F Scrubs Panel By Claudio Di Lullo Bomb Site by Scott Flugum This is a great plane with a nice panel and sounds and should be included in everyones collection. Download ** B17 effects upgrade Download*
	RAF MK IIAA for CFS1 or CFS2 By Herve Devred, Michel Melchior Textured by Walter Myers Sound by Mike Hambly Adapted by David Mulcahy Panel By Claudio Di Lullo Bomb Site by Scott Flugum Seperate front and rear firing guns Download ** B17 effects upgrade Download*

http://thefreeflightsite.com/Aircraft_CFS2.htm

**Captain Kurt** · April 1st, 2018, 15:48

Don't quote me, I could be wrong. but wasn't this a problem that was discussed some years ago and the problem was traced to the bomb load out. The specified bombs were too heavy. Switching to another bomb set solved it. Was it dBolt's weapons that fixed it?

or maybe that medication has me hallucinating again?

**Fibber** · April 1st, 2018, 17:13

Thank you! I thought that I was the only one to remember that it was previously discussed, but can't remember the resolution. I have tried a B-17 by Herbie and the bird flies! All others that I have by FDG have a flight span of a Dodo bird!

**Sarg Willy** · April 6th, 2018, 19:13

Loaded with 50-cal,s check the carry no ,s and end weight,s too

**highpockets** · April 7th, 2018, 13:27

Fibber
I have had this loaded for a while but not tried the B-17 mission. Mine does get about 92 knots, airborne, gear up but cannot maintain altitude and the other flight members pass me up before "splat"

**Fibber** · April 10th, 2018, 17:59

...tried this in the mission first and then in FF. Same results in both entities. It seems that this has the same flight capabilities of a dodo bird!! That is even with the updates that Rami sent me.
IIRC waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back there was some discussion on this problem and I can't remember if it was ever resolved. Funny thing is it seems to fly when I am doing escorts in QC.

**Captain Kurt** · April 11th, 2018, 08:25

Fibber and Highpockets

The FDG2 B17 dp files have the plane seriously overloaded and the flight files have some contributing issues as well.

I did a quick fix which is by no means a comprehensive upgrade but the changes should allow you to now fly the B-17E in FF and the missions.

The .50 cal ammo was seriously over weight adding 1500 lbs and the bomb loads were too big by 2000 lbs to 4000 lbs. The B-17 standard bomb load was 6000 lbs. I've corrected both in the dp file. The drag coefficient in the air file is too high so I have lowered it by a guess - this would need more work to be fully accurate. Props are too inefficient. Gear ratio, efficiency quotient, moi etc aren't set right and are set at 2 blades. A lot of work to correct all that so rather than fight it I just upped the propeller thrust scalar in the cfg file, again by guess but sufficient to get the plane performing.

Give the attached flight files a try and please report back how they are working for you?

Attachment 59513

**Fibber** · April 11th, 2018, 12:04

Reporting as requested! Installed the change and was able to get up from Buka with 50% flaps, no load other than 4550 rounds , with ease and no problem and gear raised. Once airborne and at speed 100 flaps were raised to 25% and climbed effortlessly, some mild stalling but that was my error in the climb rate. Recovered nicely with no problem. At 120 flaps were fully retracted and the plane flew perfect.
With est. 5 degrees Angle of attack and in a 10 degree bank climbed almost 2000 fleet in one timed minute while maintaining speed 120 . At 6500 feet went to level flight and the speed gradually increased to 150.
THANK YOU!!!

ADDENDUM: Being bored and in the pursuit of extended knowledge I actually found this gem! The B-17 DID NOT use flaps for take-off!! This book here: https://aviationshoppe.com/boeing-b1...uals-a-23.html is the guide for the operation of the B-17.
CK's modification works great!

**Captain Kurt** · April 13th, 2018, 15:49

Fibber, it's true the B-17 did not use flaps for take off and you should not need them. Flaps create drag and slow the take off roll acceleration when what you want is to get to flying speed as soon as possible. In other words instead of helping, using 50% flaps should be hurting your ability to take off. She should want to fly at 110 to 112 knots. Gentle and steady climb until you reach about 130 to 140 knots. before that climbing too steep will cause a rapid fall off in speed and a possible stall.

I can get off from Buka with a full load of 12x 500lb bombs, full fuel and full ammo load and still have 40% of the runway left.

What happens when you try it with no flaps?

**Fibber** · April 13th, 2018, 18:04

.....thought I had sent a PM on that to you. Anyway, it was, as the song goes, "Up Up and away...."

Check out the ADDENDUM in my post.

**Captain Kurt** · April 14th, 2018, 10:03

So you did Fibber. I didn't see any notification of the PM though so I didn't know about getting it.

**highpockets** · April 17th, 2018, 12:35

CK
I did your modification to my B-17E and she got up (carefully) and to the target the only problem is --I CAN'T SKIP BOMB Yet.

**Captain Kurt** · April 18th, 2018, 08:24

Hi Highpockets

Well, I didn't update the Bismark Sea skip bomber air files. I worked with the stock aircraft files. Talon changed them to suit his campaign. Specifically, he changed the .dp aircraft category from a level bomber to a to a torpedo bomber - the same as the TBF Avenger - and changed the last 2 bomb load choices. I can''t see that he changed anything else.

Here are the updated B-17E skip bomber flight files matched to the Bismark Sea campaign. I don't have the Bismark Sea loaded so I can't test it but it matches Talon's changes. I am assuming it should work.

Attachment 59664

**Captain Kurt** · April 19th, 2018, 18:20

Well I messed that up. I missed a needed [Gunstations] and [Guns] entry to make the .dp file work for skip bombing.

Sorry 'bout that.

Ignore the above zip file and use this one instead.

Attachment 59728

**Fibber** · April 19th, 2018, 19:05

...we will forgive you this time, but don't let that happen again!"

**highpockets** · April 20th, 2018, 14:41

CK
Sorry, been out of town for 3 days I will give it a check out this weekend.
Thanks for your work. I would have NO idea where to start. I might end up converting the B-17 to a submarine!