Virtavia XB-70 issue

[Marine0326]

Recently picked up the plane a couple days ago, and so far it has been unflyable. Shortly after rotating and gaining altitude after takeoff, I lose both aileron and rudder control. Cannot turn left or right, and the only way I can control the AOA pitch is by using the up/down trim. It immediately wants to go into a nose dive. The only way to prevent a ground assault, is by trimming the pitch up, and then down, and then up...... repeat.

As far as I can tell, there is no support forum for Virtavia, so I'm asking here. If you can help, I'd be much obliged.

M0326

[Jafo]

When I've been buzzing around in it I've always had to keep an eye on the ASI .... if yer going too fast things go wrong.
Get a bit of height and droop your wings and you can wind it out to Mach3 ...

[Josh Patterson]

Every once and a while I'll get into a Virtavia bird and the autopilot will be engaged for some reason. Since you have no pitch (other than trim), yaw or roll control this sounds like what is happening. Next time it happens use whatever key you have set up to turn the AP on and off and see if you regain control. The XB-70 does fly well (I'm using FSX) although it seems to float on landing and keep flying at a way lower airspeed than I think is right! A note on the autopilot though. Don't set it until you're at a stable cruising altitude (it seems happy at 70,000) and speed (450 kts is VNE, set the AP for about 350-370 as it seems to always overshoot the mark) otherwise it will hunt for the desired altitude if you use the AP in the climb and you'll spend your flight porpoising along! (Or like Jafo said if controls lock up during flight you're probably going too fast. It happens to me all the time in Bear Studios' MiG-17.)

[Jafo]

It does fly.....but maybe not as one of these...

[Josh Patterson]

It does fly.....but maybe not as one of these...

Can one even begin to IMAGINE how loud four of these (not even counting the two solos) in full reheat would be!? WOW!!

[Marine0326]

AP is off, that was my first thought and check. Altitude, speed, and wing drop timing is the issue. I just need to be patient with it, and let it fly.

Jafo, I already have a couple of your paints for this, as well as the Hustler. Nice job!!

[Josh Patterson]

AP is off, that was my first thought and check. Altitude, speed, and wing drop timing is the issue. I just need to be patient with it, and let it fly.

Jafo, I already have a couple of your paints for this, as well as the Hustler. Nice job!!

Is it flying easier with familiarity? My big problem was staying coordinated in turns below 300KTS. I kept trying to fly the pattern too tight and in tower view the tail was going toward the ground and the nose pointed toward the sky even though I was putting the rudders to the stops! Took me half of forever to put it down on the center of the KOSH runway (or on it at all) as the view on approach isn't the greatest. I ended up practicing at KTTS as the runway is really wide!

[Marine0326]

Getting familiar with it helps alot. As well, what works when, if that helps. Haven't tried landing the girl yet, but I'm guessing it will be a completely new learning curve.

[fsafranek]

Is it flying easier with familiarity? My big problem was staying coordinated in turns below 300KTS. I kept trying to fly the pattern too tight and in tower view the tail was going toward the ground and the nose pointed toward the sky even though I was putting the rudders to the stops! Took me half of forever to put it down on the center of the KOSH runway (or on it at all) as the view on approach isn't the greatest. I ended up practicing at KTTS as the runway is really wide!

Landing at Edwards is much more forgiving.

[delta_lima]

Landing at Edwards is much more forgiving.

This.

But more crucially, training in aircraft having similar flight characteristics is a proven way of getting better. Do large patterns in the F-102, F-106, and most especially, the B-58. The latter was, as I recall, part of the regimen of specific aircraft pilots on the XB-70 would train in well before they set foot on the XB-70, and even during their time on the XB-70 programme, maintained currency in it as training on (the many) off-days when the XB-70 wasn't flying. Much higher wing loading, faster takeoff and landing speeds, and more particularly, longer, flatter approaches. All three of these are well represented in FSX, and in particular, taming the Hustler will make the Valkyrie a much smaller stretch. Not for no reason did Joe Cotton get selected for the XB-70 programme, having extensive development and test flight experience on the B-58.

Yes, it's a simulation, and about having fun - but if you're crashing continually and/or barely able to keep the plane under control, why not step up to it via some easier planes, and that will heighten the experience when you eventually decide you're ready for the XB-70?

Food for thought.

cheers,

dl

[expat]

In addition to this being even more of a handful to land than the Convair Delta's, I have trouble with the auto throttle having a mind of its own and often wiping out either from stalling or over-speeding unless I am watching it and disengaging to manually adjust the power.

[warchild]

theres so many questions i'd like to ask, but they all seem perhaps irrelevant because this is not only FSX, but its old alphasim FSX at that. unlike A2A, Fliger747, RCBerand, and many others who call the place home, theres no real accounting for the quality of the flight models from nine years ago.Every model was different, even my own. It's like we were all learning the basics and making mistakes..

What speed range are you using the droop corners on the wings?? They created a pillow of air under the wings that the plane rode on top of at high ( edit: sorry. Just woke up ) speed.

Is the tail trim tank topped off on takeoff?? the last fuel tnk as located way the hell back in the tail and was used to adjust the trim of the tail as fuel was burned off..

Did alphasim possibly/perhaps, put the elevators in the canards?? There should only be flaps there.

Silly questions i know, but it makes me curious..

[centuryseries]

theres so many questions i'd like to ask, but they all seem perhaps irrelevant because this is not only FSX, but its old alphasim FSX at that. unlike A2A, Fliger747, RCBerand, and many others who call the place home, theres no real accounting for the quality of the flight models from nine years ago.Every model was different, even my own. It's like we were all learning the basics and making mistakes..

What speed range are you using the droop corners on the wings?? They created a pillow of air under the wings that the plane rode on top of at high ( edit: sorry. Just woke up ) speed.

Is the tail trim tank topped off on takeoff?? the last fuel tnk as located way the hell back in the tail and was used to adjust the trim of the tail as fuel was burned off..

Did alphasim possibly/perhaps, put the elevators in the canards?? There should only be flaps there.

Silly questions i know, but it makes me curious..

Back then we began to use the fuel tanks for aircraft balancing - I'm sure there was a manual with that product, worth checking to see if the CG is correct with appropriate amounts of fuel in the tanks.

[warchild]

Back then we began to use the fuel tanks for aircraft balancing - I'm sure there was a manual with that product, worth checking to see if the CG is correct with appropriate amounts of fuel in the tanks.

Thats what i'm thinking.. What i dont know, is if FSX accounts for the relocation of the aerodynamic center during trans-sonic speeds; which is what the tank balanced.. Still, i would think that the cg would have to be off by several feet to overpower the elevators, or the cg and cl are so much out of whack that causes it, but virtavia wouldnt release it like that..

BTW.. Love your work

[mikewmac]

Can one even begin to IMAGINE how loud four of these (not even counting the two solos) in full reheat would be!? WOW!!

Hey Josh,

I bet in the real world four Hustlers in full afterburner would also have made their presence known!





Note: This screenshot is of 4 of John Young's JYAI Convair B-58A Hustlers in full afterburner flying up the Lake Champlain Valley of Vermont.

[Josh Patterson]

IIRC the Virtavia fuel system is automatic as I've flown JFK to LAX and never touched a fuel transfer pump. (Like you said, it's pretty old). The canards do have only flaps lowered with the spoiler input. IMHO the plane is way too forgiving on the approach. Restauravia's MirageIII, Razbam's F-102, and GlowingHeat's B-58 all have a touchdown speed in the neighborhood of 170-190 with the approach flown at around 200. Virtavia's F-106 seems a little slow on landing at around 140-150 (which is about Vr speed IRL) I've touched down in the XB-70 at 100 kts with about half fuel. I would think it should be similar to the other deltas.

[Josh Patterson]

Hey Josh,

I bet in the real world four Hustlers in full afterburner would also have made their presence known!





Note: This screenshot is of 4 of John Young's JYAI Convair B-58A Hustlers in full afterburner flying up the Lake Champlain Valley of Vermont.

Oh what I would give to be able to see just one in the air! My Dad has always said the B-36 was impressive too. He said you'd feel it before you ever saw it. I have the JYAI for the Hustler, Stratojet and Peacemaker. How did you get four in formation? Alter the flight plan? There's a Hustler in Pima that could possibly be a flyer if anyone was feeling rebellious against the USAF who probably still owns it!

[mikewmac]

Oh what I would give to be able to see just one in the air! My Dad has always said the B-36 was impressive too. He said you'd feel it before you ever saw it. I have the JYAI for the Hustler, Stratojet and Peacemaker. How did you get four in formation? Alter the flight plan? There's a Hustler in Pima that could possibly be a flyer if anyone was feeling rebellious against the USAF who probably still owns it!

Josh,

I visited the Pima Air Museum a number of years ago, but had forgotten all about that Hustler.

My brother-in-law, now deceased, flew on B-36's back in the day and never had a bad word to say about them.

I've collaborated with John Young on the AI FDE development for many of his AI aircraft models and he is a very gifted AI modeler.

The 4 ship AI formation flight was accomplished with a special AI flight plan using four virtual way points appropriately located and spaced apart from which the four JYAI B-58A's spawn and fly towards their destination at Burlington IAP (KBTV). After a while in this particular scenario the JYAI B-58A's separate and begin their individual VFR approaches into KBTV.