Vought RF-8 Crusader project, 2018

[expat]

Found this one while viewing the posted one on another interesting aircraft - before it became a photo bird https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dwtO38HmlM

[DC1973]

Gentlefolk of Sim Outhouse,

Once again I must apologise for the lack of activity on this project, life really has become extremely busy and I have realised that there is no real chance of me producing a brand new RF-8 Crusader for FSX / P3D, at least not in the short term. To this end, and because I really don't want to let down those whom I know were eagerly awaiting this airplane, I sought another route to bringing the RF-8 into the sim and have worked to convert the excellent Alphasim F8-E to RF-8A standard.

So far, it's working out really well. I have to contact Virtavia to ensure they're happy for me to distribute this as freeware but in the meantime here's a quick screenie of the airplane. Ignore the minor texture issues, they're being ironed out at the moment. The plan is to polish the conversion over the next couple of weeks, making improvements as time allows, complete a couple of texture paints and also add the fuselage to the VC so that virtual reality nuts like me can see an actual airplane around them when they fly. I'll add what other improvements I can over that time frame, and then hopefully release it here as a stand-alone add on to the Alpha F8-E

[Navy Chief]

Dean,

That will be great! Hope Virtavia gives the go ahead. Btw, what scenery is in your screenshot? Tomkitties! NC

[delta_lima]

Dean, thanks for the update!

Yes, as NC, I’m also hoping this will be approved by Virtavia. In a sense, it’d achieve the goal that we had back in 05 when the original first came out.

Sure, the new-build RF was a great dream. But the converted F exterior still looks fantastic in P3D, and an RF model addition would still be heartily welcomed.

Looking forward to this, and again, the wait has been worth it.

Thanks for your perseverance on this.

Daniel.

[DC1973]

Dean,

That will be great! Hope Virtavia gives the go ahead. Btw, what scenery is in your screenshot? Tomkitties! NC

The Tomcats are Nick Black AI MAIW machines that I upgraded to P3D standard for them - they're soon to be released, including all the Miramar Top Gun birds

Daniel: Yeah, it's a shame but I'm heavily into commercial sim development for some of the major vendors now, so with the need to also write novels for a living my spare time's been severely curtailed. I still hope to build a dedicated Crusader at some point, but I'm hoping the RFN version will soon cater for our Crusader needs

Textures already improving as I get to work with the paint kit - once that's sorted, I'll add some more details to the airframe that were missing from the Alphasim version before getting it all ready for release - watch this space

[DC1973]

OK guys, making progress now - textures coming together nicely, specular effects from a previous FSX update looking nice in the light Will soon be ready for VC improvements and final checks before release - some piccies for you 'Sader fans and Navy chaps to enjoy!

[Navy Chief]

Go Dean, GO!! 😁 Thank you so much! NC

[DC1973]

Great news folks, the wonderful Phil at Virtavia has given me permission to release the RF-8A/G conversion as freeware

I'm going to make some last minor model adjustments and I'd really like to try to add that unique "hump" on the upper fuselage to really get the shape right before final texture improvements. Release should be good within a couple of weeks. Model now also converted for P3D v4 - both types will be included so that all users can enjoy the update, regardless of platform.

A quick shot of the current build in P3D v4, over San Diego.

[MrZippy]

Lookin' good, Dean!

[delta_lima]

Great news folks, the wonderful Phil at Virtavia has given me permission to release the RF-8A/G conversion as freeware

I'm going to make some last minor model adjustments and I'd really like to try to add that unique "hump" on the upper fuselage to really get the shape right before final texture improvements. Release should be good within a couple of weeks. Model now also converted for P3D v4 - both types will be included so that all users can enjoy the update, regardless of platform.

A quick shot of the current build in P3D v4, over San Diego.

Absolutely outstanding news and great shots.

I think you’ve done a great job on the shape of the camera bays. They’re subtle but complex and easy to get incorrect.

I hope you don’t mind a bit of constructive input - bear in mind I was involved in the original, so I’m pretty attached to the subject and this model. A potential area to look at is the nose. I say potential, since it’s tricky with the black radome still painted.

The common pre TPS (gull grey over white) never, to my knowledge, had the full nose painted. They were generally white underneath, with the top painted black to match the anti-glare black area forward of the cockpit. There was a small tip of the nose area that was usually black (a few where white).

This would clarify whether you added the nose viewfinder port. I think you did, but it’s hard to see. Unfortunately I’m on my tiny iPhone on a beach vacation, so I can’t get you great pics. But here’s a link showing the viewfinder port and the white underside, and the small extent of nose actually painted:

http://www.vfp62.com/rf8_info.html

So seeing it in the right colour may clarify the other “potential” area - the shape itself of the nose. It was a shorter, pointier, sharper nose, similar to that of the used in the AN/APQ-83 equipped F8U-1E (F-8B) and F8U-2 (F-8C) than the larger, later AN/APQ-84 equipped D or E nose models.

You may have the right nose profile, but it’s hard to tell in all black.

Not sure if if this would add complexity, but a point of unresolved cleanup I felt was originally needed was over the variable-incidence wing angle jack. I think the diameter is too thick to scale, compared to what we see in photos:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisstreckfus/3021360962

http://picdeer.com/media/2064370528743322977_6990636245

I hope the help, and when I return Sat morning I can assist in more detail if required.

Thanks a ton for this.

Meanwhile, take care, and advise if you need anything else - have lots of resources at home if required.

Best regards,

Daniel

[DC1973]

I hope the help, and when I return Sat morning I can assist in more detail if required.

Thanks a ton for this.

Meanwhile, take care, and advise if you need anything else - have lots of resources at home if required.

Best regards,

Daniel

Thanks Daniel, I really appreciate all and any help on these projects

It's time that's mostly against me, to be honest. My plan is to take a look at the camera bay section and recreate the "hump" but due to the way the Alphasim Crusader is constructed it's too much work to reshape the whole accurately. I am considering using my own-built version of the fuselage in that area in place of the original, and will give it a go tonight to see how they match up.

The nose is easy to resolve with a new texture map, so I can do that - I did shorten it as described but it may need to be a little shorter still. The wing jack however would need to remain as is, as it's animated ( I can of course animate but the more work I add, the less time I'll have to do it right ). One thing that I do want to add is the new flat re-fueling probe bay door and animate that to match the existing probe, which will be moved deeper into the fuselage to match the RF-8's correct profile. Finally, the VC appears to be animated but most instruments are un-clickable, something I can also fix fairly easily.

I think that's the limit on what I can achieve at the moment. I really want to improve all sorts of things but I have to be realistic on what I have the time to perform and still bring this little project home so that people can enjoy it. The full HD Crusader is still an option, but I may talk to RFN about a similar conversion of their F8-E when the time comes if they're interested in the potential - best of both worlds that way

[TARPSBird]

Dean,
Sorry to hear that your work commitments prevent you from finishing your RF-8. From the screen shots you posted of your work in progress I thought you had it nailed. Well, anyway, if you're going to rework the Alpha F-8E to a RF-8G you'll need to...

(1) Remove that dorsal tunnel/spine that extends forward from the vertical stab.

(2) Work on the camera bay area so it looks more like part of the fuselage. From your recent pics it looks more like a saddle on the bottom of the plane. It looked fine on your original WIP pics. Also make sure the bottom and side windows for Stations 3 and 4 are lined up, doesn't look like they are right now on your F-8E conversion pics.

(3) Add the Station 2 KA-66 camera window. Little triangular window behind Station 1. The KA-66 was our main panoramic camera for 20+ years, the window was a permanent fixture.

(4) Delta_Lima already mentioned the nose and viewfinder window in his comment, and he is correct; the older F8U-1 nose shape is closer to the RF-8 and I never saw any all-black noses on any of our jets in VFP-63. Tip of the nose was usually white or cream color.

(5) AlphaSim's original F-8 cockpit layout got a thumbs-up from both Adm. Paul Gillcrist and MiG-killer Capt. John Nichols so the virtual cockpit area is no big deal to me. An image of the RF-8 viewfinder's traveling grid display in the fighter's radar scope would suit me fine... or just leave it dark. Aside from the RF-8's camera controls everything else was pretty much the same from one Crusader to another (I think, hehe).

I have attached some pics that show what I've mentioned here. The shot of BuNo 144608 over Mt. Fuji is about as good as it gets for showing the RF-8's fuselage profile and the distinctive "hump". If I can be of any assistance let me know.

[gray eagle]

[QUOTE=TARPSBird;1191911]

(5) AlphaSim's original F-8 cockpit layout got a thumbs-up from both Adm. Paul Gillcrist and MiG-killer Capt. John Nichols so the virtual cockpit area is no big deal to me.

/QUOTE]

Those names sound familiar: Adm Gillcrist http://www.epnaao.com/BIOS_files/REGULARS/Gillcrist-%20Paul%20T.pdf


And this Capt Nchols https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Nichols


They are both gone now. Capt Nichols was CO of VF-24 after I left there FFT to VF-154 (USS Ranger). They both were great warriors.

[DC1973]

I have attached some pics that show what I've mentioned here. The shot of BuNo 144608 over Mt. Fuji is about as good as it gets for showing the RF-8's fuselage profile and the distinctive "hump". If I can be of any assistance let me know.

Thanks for the pictures - much of what you describe are on my wish-list of adjustments, but the time they would take to implement is just what I don't have at the moment. Ideally, I'd marry my original WIP fuselage to the Alphasim wings etc, but it's too much work I'm afraid at the moment. I'll do as much as I can in the next couple of weeks, but anything more involved would have to wait until I have more time for it. Fingers crossed, some more free time will be available before too long...

[TARPSBird]

Those are the guys.
Admiral Gillcrist was COMFITAEWWINGPAC (formerly COMFAIRMIRAMAR) 1979-80 when I was in VFP-63. I only had email exchanges with him while working the AlphaSim F-8 development. I had an enjoyable phone conversation with Capt. Nichols several years earlier after I had sent him a letter concerning an article he wrote for the Tailhook Association's "The Hook" magazine. Two great sticks and outstanding officers. Hand Salute and RIP, gentlemen.

Those names sound familiar: Adm Gillcrist http://www.epnaao.com/BIOS_files/REGULARS/Gillcrist-%20Paul%20T.pdf

And this Capt Nchols https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Nichols

They are both gone now. Capt Nichols was CO of VF-24 after I left there FFT to VF-154 (USS Ranger). They both were great warriors.

[TARPSBird]

No problem, Dean. Do what you're able to do, and file my comments and pics away for future reference. The old FS2002-vintage Alpha RF-8 still works in FS9 but not in FSX, so it will be great to have a new photo bird to fly around in.

Thanks for the pictures - much of what you describe are on my wish-list of adjustments, but the time they would take to implement is just what I don't have at the moment. Ideally, I'd marry my original WIP fuselage to the Alphasim wings etc, but it's too much work I'm afraid at the moment. I'll do as much as I can in the next couple of weeks, but anything more involved would have to wait until I have more time for it. Fingers crossed, some more free time will be available before too long...

[DC1973]

OK guys, did some work tonight in an attempt to get the RF-8 as close as possible to reality within what can be done on the existing F8-E base, and time constraints. I've shortened the nose and created a custom texture for the nose cone. Tail and spine altered, camera bays realigned, and the "hump" added as close as is possible - it's a little shorter than it should be but it's not too bad. Refueling arm added, and a new custom flat-door and bay added and animated. I'm going with the RF-8G as this version, simply because it's the one that most closely is resembled by what we have at the moment. Hope that this is all a bit closer to a reasonable representation of the airplane - textures will of course also be included for VFP-62, and maybe a later ghost-gray version as well.

Think I'll go have a beer now

[delta_lima]

Looking great Dean!

VFP-62’s nose treatment details - underside of nose was same white as fuselage (same goes for ‘63, not grey as per your pic, but that’s minor).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/skyhawkpc/22836094525

http://vfp62.com/IMAGES/scarborough_905.jpg

Thanks for some great progress shots!

Daniel

[TARPSBird]

Wow... Looks pretty good to me! Nice refueling probe assembly.
What did you animate in the camera bay? Station 3 and 4 camera rotation, or window panel opening?

[DC1973]

Wow... Looks pretty good to me! Nice refueling probe assembly.
What did you animate in the camera bay? Station 3 and 4 camera rotation, or window panel opening?

Thanks guys!

The animation was the new fuel-probe bay door - sorry, I could have written that a little clearer. I'll sort out the nose textures, as they can be easily changed now on the new maps. I reckon I could make that hump a little longer too for effect, then just add that little extra camera bay and I think the external model is about done. The VC as mentioned earlier by Daniel is fine as is, I'll just add clickability to undercarriage, hook and flap levers so that we're not fumbling for keyboards in the carrier pattern and perhaps improve some of the textures a little to spice it up. It all actually looks pretty good in P3D v4 in VR, and is a tricky bird to put down on that three wire

[delta_lima]

Thanks guys!

The animation was the new fuel-probe bay door - sorry, I could have written that a little clearer. I'll sort out the nose textures, as they can be easily changed now on the new maps. I reckon I could make that hump a little longer too for effect, then just add that little extra camera bay and I think the external model is about done. The VC as mentioned earlier by Daniel is fine as is, I'll just add clickability to undercarriage, hook and flap levers so that we're not fumbling for keyboards in the carrier pattern and perhaps improve some of the textures a little to spice it up. It all actually looks pretty good in P3D v4 in VR, and is a tricky bird to put down on that three wire

Hi Dean,

Some great updates. I think you may have confused me with someone else re the VC ;-). It’s arguably the most “aged” part of the FS9->FSX->P3D journey. I’ll admit that in FSX, I replaced it with the RAZBAM A-7A pit for sake of nicer atmosphere. At present in P3D I’m back to the original VC until I figure out how to correctly carry over the effects and gauges. If you’re sprucing up the VC that’ll be appreciated, but even just adding the click spots is great.

Thanks again for such a generous effort of time and effort. Back to vacation mode.

Cheers!

Daniel

[Brian_Gladden]

Some great updates. I think you may have confused me with someone else re the VC ;-). It’s arguably the most “aged” part of the FS9->FSX->P3D journey. I’ll admit that in FSX, I replaced it with the RAZBAM A-7A pit for sake of nicer atmosphere. At present in P3D I’m back to the original VC until I figure out how to correctly carry over the effects and gauges. If you’re sprucing up the VC that’ll be appreciated, but even just adding the click spots is great.

Thanks again for such a generous effort of time and effort. Back to vacation mode.

Cheers!

Ha! I had to do the complete opposite. I had to port the Virtavia FSX conversion F-8 VC into my Razbam A-7 two seaters due to a weird anomaly in the VC (Probably the collimated HUD) to get it useable in P3D 1.4

[DC1973]

External model update is now complete on the RF-8G Crusader, just some minor texture alterations and of course other unit markings to add. Dorsal hump improved, nose cone texture map renewed, also added a light-map to the cockpit instruments for effect at night. Will also add light maps to all VC instruments for those night carrier landings, and of course put in the click spots where they're most needed.

I'll start on the VC improvements tomorrow, shouldn't take too long for those hopefully.

[delta_lima]

Looks great, Dean!

I’d say the nose is now pretty much dead on. Subtle, but to model enthusiasts of this variant will appreciated it.

The hump looked off a bit, and I tried to illustrate in the attachment below. I believe the hump is both a bit over pronounced by virtue of the slope being a bit short. The footprint of the hump needs, in my view, to be stretched both fwd and aft, and the apex of the hump located aft a good 18” in scale. I think the overall height is good, just a bit better a transitioned.

Remember, this was the fastest Crusader, an already fast design, so the aerodynamic considerations weighed heavily on how to accommodate the extra bulk of the cameras, the inflight refuelling probe door, etc that made this model unique versus the fighter model.

Not trying to nitpick - you’ve already done great work. Just hoping to give a bit of an extra keen eye perspective.

Sorry for the crummy image.



It’s the best I can manage in a crowded airport on a tiny iPhone-but should help convey the issue.

[MrZippy]

Can we have John Glenn in the cockpit?