What is the appetite for freeware as opposed to payware?

[DC1973]

Hi everyone,

I'm nearing the release of my first airplane for FSX and P3D ( Northrop F-15A Reporter / P-61C Black Widow ) and am curious to see whether folks are keener on freeware than payware. I'm not asking because I don't think people should pay for their sim airplanes, more about how many of us are obsessed with seeing every switch, dial and gauge faithfully rendered to within a pixel of its life? Although fabulously complex, I've grown somewhat tired of purchasing aircraft that are so detailed that I need to spend months figuring out how to use them properly. The reason I ask is that there are many types out there available as brilliant payware that aren't around much as "turn on your PC and go have fun" freeware. I'm thinking of doing some of these airplanes as my next project rather than seeking another type that hasn't been made yet.

It's taken me a year to complete ( almost ) my first project, and I've learned so much that the next will likely take much less time. As an example, I really like airplanes like the P-47D Thunderbolt. This exists as expensive freeware, and basic freeware, but nothing right in the middle of the two. ( I think Milton Shupe has a racer version but not a WW2 version ). Would there be demand for such a thing or would folks just shrug and go buy something from A2A or Milviz etc?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to reply

[ian elliot]

A wise man once said-----You should always design to please yourself, if someone else like's it, then thats a bonus.

If you feel thats the way you want to go, then go for it, if future projects look as good as the screens for the F-15A, then im sure you'll make many fans here

[MrZippy]

This exists as expensive freeware, and basic freeware, but nothing right in the middle of the two.

Uhm.........I need cheap freeware! In fact, I would like it to be "free" freeware. Are you releasing your first models as payware/donation ware?

[thunderstreak]

I personally like the more realistic addons and I prefer vintage aircraft over the modern stuff.
I am a real world recreational pilot and aircraft owner.
Realistic flight sim addons give me the opportunity to learn the systems of and operate aircraft that I otherwise could never afford to fly.
The majority of addon aircraft, payware or otherwise don't necessarily model the main systems accurately.
That said, every little detail doesn't have to be perfect.
Realistic engine, fuel and electric system management is nice, which can provide a challenging experience.

The best FSX/P3D aircraft aren't always payware though.
Manfed Jahn's C-47 being a prime example, which IMHO is probably one of the top 5 aircraft ever released for Flight Simulation.

Looking forward to flying your F-15/P-61, my favorite warbird!

Cheers, Bernard

[harrybasset]

Hi everyone,

I'm nearing the release of my first airplane for FSX and P3D ( Northrop F-15A Reporter / P-61C Black Widow ) and am curious to see whether folks are keener on freeware than payware. I'm not asking because I don't think people should pay for their sim airplanes, more about how many of us are obsessed with seeing every switch, dial and gauge faithfully rendered to within a pixel of its life? Although fabulously complex, I've grown somewhat tired of purchasing aircraft that are so detailed that I need to spend months figuring out how to use them properly. The reason I ask is that there are many types out there available as brilliant payware that aren't around much as "turn on your PC and go have fun" freeware. I'm thinking of doing some of these airplanes as my next project rather than seeking another type that hasn't been made yet.

It's taken me a year to complete ( almost ) my first project, and I've learned so much that the next will likely take much less time. As an example, I really like airplanes like the P-47D Thunderbolt. This exists as expensive freeware, and basic freeware, but nothing right in the middle of the two. ( I think Milton Shupe has a racer version but not a WW2 version ). Would there be demand for such a thing or would folks just shrug and go buy something from A2A or Milviz etc?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to reply

I agree with your opening paragraph. I have bought several "High end" complex sim airplanes which to me are so complicated I am almost scared off them and never fly them. They are masterpieces but to much for me.

[Ferry_vO]

Aeroplane Heaven are working on a p-47D with bubble canopy.

[DC1973]

Uhm.........I need cheap freeware! In fact, I would like it to be "free" freeware. Are you releasing your first models as payware/donation ware?

The F-15 Reporter will be freeware, as will the P-61C which should follow soon after.

[DC1973]

A wise man once said-----You should always design to please yourself, if someone else like's it, then thats a bonus.

If you feel thats the way you want to go, then go for it, if future projects look as good as the screens for the F-15A, then im sure you'll make many fans here

Thanks Ian! Wise words indeed. I do want to model the aircraft that I like, but also want others to enjoy them so am hoping to seek out projects with great popularity

[Bjoern]

You can do what you want if it's freeware.


And I like complex aircraft. Makes flying less boring.

[thefrog]

Looking at all the aircraft in my hangar, a lot of the freeware ones are just as detailed - some more so - than many of the payware planes (not naming names). What's important to me though, freeware or payware, is whether I feel I am flying in an aeroplane. Even some of the more basic aircraft do that if they have a good sound file, good FDE- and cockpit reflections!

[Mick]

I have nothing against payware but I never buy any. That's because I spend almost all my FS hobby time painting or fiddling with airplanes and setting up or enhancing scenery. I hardly ever fly. So it would make no sense at all to buy a model that I would hardly ever, if ever fly. I keep telling myself that I should take time off from fiddling and do some flying, but that hardly ever seems to happen. I would have no objection to buying payware if I thought I might really use it.

[DC1973]

Thanks for all the input folks. It seems like there's plenty of variation in what people prefer, but I get the impression that decent quality freeware will always have a place. I'll have a good think about what my next project will entail ( once the P-61C has been done ) and make sure it's an airplane I'm excited to see in the sim before committing to it

A quick shot below taken this evening while testing new VC textures, on the prowl over Nevada...

[Rudyjo]

I agree with your opening paragraph. I have bought several "High end" complex sim airplanes which to me are so complicated I am almost scared off them and never fly them. They are masterpieces but to much for me.

Even "High End" planes like those from A2A or Milviz can be complicated or ready to fly.
Every A2A can be started by the book, or you can click Auto Start. The DHC-2 Beaver I just got from Milviz gives you the option of having it started and ready to fly, or going through what is a very simple process after you have done it a few times, of starting it by the book.
I like my planes as realistic as they can get, I like just about every knob and switch to do something. I prefer smaller planes, and have no interest in A2A's big prop liners.

[Mach3DS]

Thanks Ian! Wise words indeed. I do want to model the aircraft that I like, but also want others to enjoy them so am hoping to seek out projects with great popularity

Don't say that! Or we'll end up with another Cessna high-wing variation! LOL....

[Pips]

Taste can also depend on what one likes to fly.

Me? I'm a prop man through and through. So even the most complex single-seater payware props eg P-47, Spitfire etc are 'reasonably' able to be mastered without an enormous amount of time spent in doing so. That said, I do also like aircraft that are easier to fly - a la freeware like some of the great twin-engine bombers around.

I tend to stay away from complex commercial props and just about all jets - I simply don't have the patience for them.

My favourite type to fly? Anything prior to the mid 1920's. Even if developers max them out tech wise, they are still fun and simple to fly. Real seat of the pants flying. Neoqb's Fokker Triplane is the most realistic I've come across, and that didn't take long to become comfortable with.

[Josh Patterson]

I like everything from "study sims" to freeware. It just depends what I want to do with my time and who has a particular plane I want. I even have both freeware and payware of the same plane (like JBK's DC-4). If I'm going XC I take a simpler plane because I always use time compression when going coast to coast. While I enjoy going to the engineer's panel in A2A's Connie to get everything up and running, the COTS flight engineer can't keep up at 64x speed so I use it for local sight seeing flights. (And I'll admit I get a devilish grin when I occasionally nose it over or apply full rudder during lunch and hear the passengers screaming and crew moaning! These things have been known to happen on JP's Adventure Airlines! ) I would pay for a P-61 (or Reporter) if any of the big guys would do one, but no one has touched it yet with any type of good quality, so thank you! (I do have the Abacus P-61 but was disappointed with it mainly because you don't have independent control of the engines so it rarely gets flown. I see it getting binned in the near future!) Would like to add that some freeware is better than some payware I've gotten. I think the SOH B-26 really scratched an itch for a lot of people and everyone involved did a bang up job!

[Stefano Zibell]

This line where payware is "study sim", and freeware is "simplified" or whatever word you may use for half-done simply does not exist.

There are freeware works of love that I would definitely pay for, and there's payware I wouldn't download for free.

[Mario Donadon]

his models are beautiful, I did some projects too, all free, Aero Boero Ab-115 and 180, RV-10 and EMB-202 Ipanema

[warchild]

There really is study level aircraft, but not in FSX except for maybe the PMDG 737NGX. I own it, because its a masterpiece of 3d engineering. I never fly it..
As for realistic flight models, i cant do exact FDEs like i used too in planes such as the B-2 Vulcan, Grumman Goose Redux, and P-61B we're waiting on, but i can still make it fairly accurate and enjoyable and am happy to do so for Dean if he desires..

[blanston12]

For a long time I was freeware only, the commercialism of payware seamed dirty and why should I pay as much for a single aircraft as I did for the sim itself. But as aircraft models have gotten more and more complex it takes more time to make a quality one. You have been working on the F-15/P-61 for a year now, I assume part time after work and family. There are a few aircraft freeware modelers out there who seem very productive but you look at the quality they put out, its often very primitive. So now I am to the point I don't care as much, if I am looking for a specific model and a quality freeware is available I will use it, but if not I am willing to pay for it.

Although I still have trouble paying more for an aircraft than I did for the sim, hence I don't own anything from PMDG.

[Milton Shupe]

My advice is to do that which provides the most personal satisfaction to you, whether payware, freeware or a mix.

There are simply too many hours invested to do otherwise.

Personally, projects get long in the tooth for me after 6-7 months of intense focus on them. I therefore try to keep them simple for me and the team, not necessarily to everyone's liking but it allows me to keep moving, to keep producing, and to be happy.

[Jafo]

There's a payware F105D coming soon.....and since it's my all-time fave plane....before FSX....before Computers..... I'll pay whatever it takes....50...100...500....whatever.
But generally speaking, there's just so much decent stuff available via freeware concentrating on that means one can 'splurge' on a bit of payware now and then....without fear of divorce...

[warchild]

For a long time I was freeware only, the commercialism of payware seamed dirty and why should I pay as much for a single aircraft as I did for the sim itself. But as aircraft models have gotten more and more complex it takes more time to make a quality one. You have been working on the F-15/P-61 for a year now, I assume part time after work and family. There are a few aircraft freeware modelers out there who seem very productive but you look at the quality they put out, its often very primitive. So now I am to the point I don't care as much, if I am looking for a specific model and a quality freeware is available I will use it, but if not I am willing to pay for it.

Although I still have trouble paying more for an aircraft than I did for the sim, hence I don't own anything from PMDG.

I look at it like this..
my work, has always been free to all. Now, the average aircraft ytook me and Paul, nine months with myself putting in 18 hours a day seven days a week, rain or shine, sick or well.. And thats the reason it was free.. My time alone was worth more than anyone except the dumbest most crazy person, would ever pay. I watched Robert, every night for three years, pushing poly's on the P-61 making sure it was perfect, four hours every night, when he could have been with his family.
Microsoft knew they could sell millions of copies. Most devs hope for a couple hundrd but usually the demand is nowhere close to that.
There used to be a saying. "You dont develop for Flight sim if your looking to get rich"..
But how much is 2000 hours of highly skilled time worth?? Even at 150 bucks, we're getting a deal..

[Josh Patterson]

This line where payware is "study sim", and freeware is "simplified" or whatever word you may use for half-done simply does not exist.

There are freeware works of love that I would definitely pay for, and there's payware I wouldn't download for free.

Kinda where I was headed with my comparison of the Abacus P-61 and Milt's B-26. The payware P-61 is completely blown out of the water by the Marauder. There are definitely quite a few levels to be had for flight sim enjoyment.

[Josh Patterson]

There's a payware F105D coming soon.....and since it's my all-time fave plane....before FSX....before Computers..... I'll pay whatever it takes....50...100...500....whatever.
But generally speaking, there's just so much decent stuff available via freeware concentrating on that means one can 'splurge' on a bit of payware now and then....without fear of divorce...

YES!! And by Milviz no less. They are in my sweet spot for complexity of systems vs ease of enjoyment and will be a welcome step up from my Virtavia Thud! Funny you mention splurging on payware. Don't ever take the time to add up receipts if you've been collecting for a while! Things can get quite out of hand in half a decade!